John-in-KC

WE'RE POLE VAULTING OVER MOUSE TURDS TODAY!!! I received my Bobcat pin in 1964. Mr Swift, our Cubmaster, had the Moms pin it on us, UPSIDE DOWN. We could not turn it up until we had done a good deed. Don't be a litterbug was just coming into vogue as a public service announcement. The next day, there was trash at school which had not made the can. I picked it up. Guess what? The Bobcat pin went upright. From my anecdote, the tradition of the Bobcat being awarded upside down dates back at least 42 years. I suspect some of the other Scouters here can track it back further. Anyone have a CUB advancement manual dating from that era? Anything on the pin? For that matter, is there anything in the current Cub advancement manual? Sheesh. We're trying to inculcate the AIM of Good Citizenship by letting these Cubs play the Grand Game.

MinnSM, OK, can see where your role as Dad (don't want to push son, want him to earn on his merits) hit a snag vis a vis your role as SM (make sure the youth understand and follow the process). Please, use the lesson as a positive takeaway: You or your Life--->Eagle Coordinator will watch each young man as they set themselves on the Trail to Eagle. The youth need mentorship. Sadly in our world today, mentorship in bureaucratic processes is part of the package. Spend time with the DAC at Roundtable. Understand how he implements the National standards. Be able to share that with the youth. Help the future young men get it done right the first time.

I just went through, as a Dad, a 6 Scout ECOH, so here's my spin: So, my questions are, what are the logistics? We did semi-formal (in a church). All the young men sat in the altar area, as did the host and the guest speakers. What do the kids want? Anything wrong with a late autumn Saturday afternoon hamburger cookout? Do we go through everything for one boy at a time, then hit the punch and cookies? Or do we go back and forth? For ours, common opening, guest speakers. Parents came up and decorated the kids (and vice versa), also kids sought out additional Eagle Mentors and gave pins to them. Kids then got their Eagle Charge, and said their thank yous. Off to the basement. What is shared and what is individual? More important is division of labor on the prep work and costs. I had responsibility for design/print of the invitations and the program. I kicked $20 into the punch and cake. Others found the church, got the speakers. We all set up the church and reception hall "the day of." Do they both stand up there the whole time? We had chairs for them to sit in It's an Eagle COH, not the Spanish Inquisition (NOBODY LIKES the Spanish Inquisition, we have three ...) Do we send out two invitations or one? ??? We did one invite listing all six boys. Does anyone know of some programs or scripts for shared ECoHs that we could look at for ideas? Here is the program from our program brochure: Eagles Soaring High AN EAGLE COURT OF HONOR CELEBRATING Eagle 1 Eagle 2 Eagle 3 Eagle 4 Eagle 5 Eagle 6 Eagle 7 Venturing Crew NNNN Council, BSA Chartered by Joes' Club Somewhere, USA September 16, 2006, Somewhere Church SOmewhere, USA Seating of Eagles and Parents Presentation of the Colors, Scout Oath and Law Brother of Eagle 7 The Invocation Eagle Scout Really Good Guy Greetings from the Master of Ceremonies Eagle Scout IMA Scouter, Advisor, Crew NNNN The Eagle Scout in Big Somewhere Eagle Scout IMA Institutional Head The Eagle Scout in Todays World Eagle Scout IMTHE DIstrict Membership Chairman Award of Medals and Neckerchiefs The Eagle Scouts and their parents The Eagle Charge Eagle Scout IMTHE TROOP GRANDPA Remarks from the Eagles Committee Chairmans Minute IMTHE Chairman Reception in Parish Hall

Lisa and all, There are two other areas of Venturing we've not yet touched on: Venturing can be co-educational. More than 1-2 of our Council VOA events have turned into all-night mixers. The youth enjoy bowling, climbing walls, pizza parties, and so on. They enjoy that the pressure of finding boyfriends/girlfriends is lowered ... because the leader (chaperone) ratio is so high. Venturing Crews seem to flex far easier to the rigors of the high school academic schedule? Home game for the football or basketball team? Marching and pep band playing? Guess what? The youth schedule as they should ... graded stuff comes first (band is curricular here) My two cents in this conversation

Mr KenK, Here is my take, as an Arrowman of 30 some-odd years: The time a Scout spends in his Ordeal or Brotherhood results directly in recognition (induction into the Order as an Ordeal member or sealing of membership as a Brotherhood member). That time, imo (and that's just it, my opinion), is just that: OPINION. Now, if a Scout is serving as an Elangomat, performing Arrowman service (working) during an induction weekend, or otherwise giving cheerful service, then those hours should count. After all, the goal of service in the Scouting Advancement METHOD is to inculcate an inherent value of the Good Citizenship AIM! All that said, I know folks who will double and triple dip service hours until the cows come home, the same hour counts for church, Scouts, school, and so on. Does that make sense?

The Nevada Area Council BSA website is in rebuild; they only have a "calling card" home page. If anyone knows which district Carson City and Douglas County are in, please PM me off-list. I might be in position to attend their RT in October. Thanks, and YIS

Eagle Pete, Only thing you missed is the CONCEPT of training in BSA these days. Acco-40 spelled that out. Each time you sign on to a new position, you are untrained in that position until you've taken the appropriate Leader Specific Training. When Mr/s Queenj or Mr GNX-guy moves from Webelos to Boy Scouting, they'll be UNTRAINED for their new positions until they take the appropriate LST module.

Trevorum, I understand the "not for BSA" especially in regard to Eagle Leadership Service Projects, but the other ranks? Can you cite this please? I know a lot of units which use conservation project time at Scout Camp as service hours.

It seems to me these days that many folks think in terms of black and white. If the DRP is quietly dropped ... in other words, it just happens one day with a new app cycle, folks may or may not notice. OTOH, if National, and our Councils, were to put out a constant contact message about this change, it'd be at a newspaper or TV/radio station before the sun went down, and the headline would be "Boy Scouts Abandon God." Councils do not seem to be organized to turn on a dime to the news cycle. The news would be ahead of the "official statements." That alone would cause folks to go away. Additionally, the "slippery slope" theory would kick in. Whether meant to be or not, dropping the DRP would be perceived as starting to abandon God in Scouting. So... if Scouting dropped the DRP, in my local area: 1) Kiss goodbye LDS Scouting units, and watch for the folks in SLC to announce dropping of Scouting as their national young mens' program. Again, my Council has a significant percentage of LDS units, because of its location on the Migration Trail. 2) Watch certain parents pull their kids from the program in favor of Awana and Royal Rangers. My thoughts and evaluation. If you don't think so, that's your right, but it's my right to stick my tongue out, go Nyahhhhhhh! and say "I told you so" should this ever come to pass.

I have to agree with Beavah, but I also have to ask the question: "What reason is there to remove the Committee Chair?" Some reasons demand action (malfeasance being the biggest one). Some reasons demand training or retraining. Some reasons are just simply personalities which do not mesh. Of the three, only the first forces an issue; the others are how can we work through this?

Gotta agree with Mr emb021. That said, who mandates regalia be of the Lenni Lenape? No one so far as I know. From what I've seen, our lodge uses a Cheyenne nation prototype. BTW, one of the ladies just given her Vigil call was for hundreds of hours of making regalia parts for the C-Team (her hobby).

To answer you, Mr Blansten, 1) I would see an immediate and significant drop in UNITS within my District. Kansas City, because of its history within the Mormon migration, has more than a few LDS packs and troops. They'd be gone, instantly. I do not even think they would wait for the recharter cycle. 2) I would have families who would drop Scouting for Royal Rangers and AWANA, almost instantly. These families believe that the Godhead is a major part of growth and development for their kids. My thoughts here.

Mr Madmike, Welcome to the adult side of Scouting. Have fun with your "hour a week." Thank you for taking up the slack in your Pack!! I promise, though, the time you serve helping youth become great young people will be rewarding

Mr Firecrafter, First, I assume all you state is true. Remember, though, we only have the info you present us. Given your post, may I recommend you report "Mr Renegades" actions to your COR, UC, and DE? May I also recommend your CC IMMEDIATELY(!!!) change the people authorized to draw against the Council account at the local Scout Shop? Finally, may I recommend your CC consider having a 1/1 talk with your advancement coordinator? The Scouter you describe is the Scouter BSA does not need.

Fred, The challenge your SM will face is how to keep the training interesting. Repeating the sylabbus every six months may well lead to bored boys!

Have fun doing the inter-weekend stuff Congratulations on being a Bear. We Owls are just to your right and around the corner should you ever needs some wise help John

I've had the honor to sit several Eagle Boards of Review in the past 3 years. One of my favorite questions is: "If you could remove one element from either the Scout Oath or Law, what would it be and why?" NO YOUNG MAN has wanted to touch the Scout Oath. Most have explicitly said: Leave the Oath alone. Several have commented on a certain redundancy between Friendly, Courteous, Kind and Cheerful in the Scout Law. I suspect that is more due to current English language usages than anything else. They all agree the concept expressed within Friendly "A friend to all and a brother to every other Scout" is vital, and, at the end of the day, they actually struggled to decide if removing elements was worth it.

Since I've said this before, I can safely say it here: I would return the Cooking Merit Badge to the Eagle Required list. Consider the life skills taught in the MB program and on the Eagle list. IS NOT COOKING a useful skill for most men to have in the 21st Century, especially when homes and families are in constant flux?

To me, the object is diversity of training. Cub leaders know a fair bit about 8-10 year olds, Boy leaders know 11-17, and Venturing leaders know 14-21 (and both genders to boot). It helps all of us learn how the program meshes together to support youth. FWIW, while our patrol enjoyed our campout, we enjoyed it not so much for the training, but rather for the time we spent away from life. Where the first weekend had been as much "uptime" as any of us had in our day jobs, the second weekend was far more "downtime."

In case folks have not read the G2SS recently, there are extremely specific requirements to establish a lakeside swimming area. Those requirements include: - Depth - Underwater obstacles - Clarity and turbidity Since BSAquatics (I assume) has been to NCS, he can cite the various National Camp Standards for a pool and a swimming beach. Having been an aquatics commissioner this year, the bottom line is SAFETY for the youth. I've noticed they have no problem at all taking care of the FUN. BTW, in case anyone asks, I've used both. Lake Ida at Camp Whitsett is where I did my Mile Swim BSA http://www.whitsett.org/AllPictures/Pix2006/wk1_06/wk1-085.jpg It's also been around almost 60 years, and the hazards are well plotted

I'd remind the Committee that if they step out of the lane established for them under Advancement Policies and Procedures, the Scout can appeal to the District Advancement Committee!! As you get to know your Scouts, and you perceive an unfairness by a BOR, you might even encourage a Scout/parents to seek recourse. It'll certainly get the attention of the Chairman! (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Give him flak, flak, Flack He's always in the sack... In his Quartermaster Shack! It was a local WB tradition to zing the Quartermaster.

With a swipe to the G2SS and the Rules/Regulations... There is beer, beer, BEER! We certainly like it here... At the Shack, At the Shack... At the Quartermaster SHACK

Feedback is a gift. Most of the below is anecdotal in nature... My son is in high school. He's 17 and an 11th grader. The faculty of the school have set an environment of excellence. Excellence is noted and publicized, be it in the classroom, on the ballfield, or outside of school at church or scouting. I've seen the young men and women of his school on ordainary days. Someone (up to half the school) is always wearing a team or club shirt, or some form of uniform. These kids are proud of who they are and what they are doing. I've seen young men and women at his school wear polos and T-shirts from Scout camps. They won't wear the annual "camper" shirts, but they do wear things that set them apart: Mic-o-Say, OA, staff shirts for the young men, staff polos in particular for some of the girl scouts (I know who they are because their names are in the paper for their Gold awards). There is a reason Advancement is a Method of Scouting: YOUNG PEOPLE WANT RECOGNITION. They want to be set apart from their peers. They'll do whatever it takes ... be that good or (sadly) bad. Help the Scouts design a great program. Facilitate the resources for Scouts to execute a great program. Give Scouts the mentorship to be great young men and women. The rest takes care of itself, including the perennial hoopla over the design, fit and finish of uniform components.

Scoutmom... Sounds to me like your "For Self" ticket items are starting to come together ... learning outdoor skills. In fact, sounds to me like organizing "continuing ed in outdoor skills" campouts could be a ticket item you'd enjoy Seriously, there is a host of supplemental training available, emphasizing one or more areas of outdoor skills. District Roundtable Program Features and Skill Development sessions should be just two times when "Experten" (auf Deutsch) can come in and share their knowledge. There's also informal skill training ... I've learned more about Dutch oven cookery by going to a friends place (he's a great field cook) and cooking with him! At the other end, there are also training events emphasizing skill mastery available at the National High Adventure centers. There's plenty in the middle, but it may have to be dug out. OGE: I would hope your message is coming through, I got it: WOODBADGE IS LEADERSHIP TRAINING. It applies to: - Unit serving Scouters, running outdoor programs. - Guys and gals doing year round camp maintenance/upkeep, - Guys and gals on the Council Audit Committee