John-in-KC

I think most of us would agree this seems to be a Troop in need of some helpful assistance: - When was the last time the District Commissioner, ADC, and (most importantly of all) Unit Commissioner visited the Troop? It feels like there are "gut-check" level issues with delivery of the Scouting program here. - When was the last time the District Executive paid his annual call on the IH and COR? They have responsibilities to the youth of the program by seeking out volunteers for the program and ensuring they are trained! If there is one thing I've learned about the adult side of Scouting, it's that program delivery to the youth works really well when all the moving parts (Chartered Partner, professional staff, commissioner staff, committee, and program officers) are trained and know how the parts link together!!! Lisa, Beavah, and Eamonn have all given good advice in both this thread and int he Conflict of interest thread... BTW, if the BOR denies review, there is the option of the Scout (and his family) filing a complaint with the District Advancement Committee... Now, I will admit I have adjourned BORs for a week. As a CC, when I did this, there were specific reasons and instructions to the Scout . To my memory, the only BOR I've adjourned for longer than a week was due to a coming holiday or my knowing I would not have enough adults for a quourum. There's an unwritten rule of advancement, told me by my District Advancement Chairman: Surprises in advancements are a BAD THING. To the last question: If the Scoutmaster and the Committee Chair are not on the same wavelength regarding advancements, it's time to bring in the Unit Commissioner (I'd say COR first, then UC, but you've indicated you have a less than engaged COR--SM and CC are accoutable to COR).

I would hope your COR is rather interested in your camp debrief. He can be an agent for change at the Annual Business Meeting... amazing what happens when a motion for a vote of no-confidence goes on the table. It'd be a useful thing if he can get an ally to second the motion... Another tactic is to invite the IH and COR down for a meal, then let them have a long talk with the SE...

There are other places to get experience as well. My almost-Eagle spent three years working J-staff at District Cub Day Camp. He worked for T-shirts and references. Those references got him his job this year!!!

Lisa, I took this in 2002, when the entire NLE curriculum package rolled out. In a perfect world, yes, it should be done with a complete committee. As we both have seen, the world isn't perfect. I took TCC in a mix/match group environment. Doesn't work perfectly, but works. On a personal note, pace yourself. That Wood Badge function that set our "Help" switches to permanent YES can overload you. Have fun with program support, but do manage your burdens. I have a friend who did not ... we almost lost her from Scouting forever due to burnout (scouting folks, NOT this life ). Isn't feedback a gift ??? John A Good Old Owl Too...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Well, this appears to be a Northeast Region document, not a National document. Tell you what: I'll ask someone and get back to the Forum.

Every camp is different, every director is different. As I write this, my son is working at our Council's Bear Resident Camp. Much of what others have written applies. Of the Boy Scouts he's working with, all are Eagles or driving on Eagle. Most are honor campers in both OA and Mic-O-Say, the Tribesmen are all men of paint. The young ladies are Venturers with GSUSA backgrounds and have or are driving on their GSUSA Golds and various Venturing awards. These young people love what they are doing. They have a great director and program director. If there is a better way to instill a high work ethic, I've not found it. My biggest job right now is not to be a "helicopter Dad," but to give him room to grow. (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Signed.

I'd spend some time visiting with your friendly neighborhood high school principal. There IS a model for adult training. The US Military uses it; it's called "Systems Approach to Training." In the civil world, I believe it's called "Instructional Systems Development. It's a 5 phase continuous process: Analyze---Design---Develop---Implement with Evaluation being a constant overwatch of each step. Here is an overview sheet, with a pointer to a manual, that the Marine Corps uses... http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/gtb/sat.htm Hope this helps you. Now, if you are looking for better instructor training (methods of instruction and quality of presentation), I'll be at Scout Camp for a few days, then I'll see what I can find for you! I know the TWO THINGs that help more than any other ... KNOW YOUR MATERIAL and REHEARSE, REHEARSE, REHEARSE.

Lisa, I'd have two quiet talks... First, converse with an experienced craftsman. When I went to junior high school, oh so long ago, we were not permitted use of shop tools until our instructor or teacher had checked us out on same. I never did get to the point of working a metal lathe. The craftsman will have good ideas about training scouts. Second, converse with your Council (or region) safety person. In the (perfect) world, each council executive board has a health and safety committee, and it's equally divided between health and safety professionals. IN THE REAL WORLD, you may have to have your SE put you in touch with someone at a neighboring Council, Region or even National. Isn't feedback a gift?

Fred, What would be more useful is a "debrief" by the young men to qualified outdoors people. Let's see if they improvised a fire and shelter to keep them going for the night. Also, did they "stay put" when they discovered they were too far out of position to be back in camp before full dark?

Get him earning Activity Pins ... and as he earns a pin, encourage him to take a loop off, becauase he's gone farther in the subject No, that is not from the Uniform guidance ... trying to think of pragmatic win-win ideas here.

My Council has a special award for a Cub earning all 24 Bear achievements... the Bear Claw!!!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Scoutldr, Odds are there is a Health/Safety professional on your Council's Executive Board. Have you considered having a talk with him? How does your Camps policy compare with other Virginia camps, both in and out of Scouting? Remember, your Scout reservation has to comply with local law!

Kristi, Two feet deep of water is more than deep enough for a child to drown himself in (yes, I am talking about 8-10 year olds). YOU REALLY NEED TO ASK YOUR COUNCIL EXECUTIVE BOARD HEALTH AND SAFETY PERSON FOR INPUT ON THIS!!! Remember, feedback is a gift (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

From the Guide to Safe Scouting. Note that none of the below is boldface!!! (it's not policy)... http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ba Prescriptions The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the individual taking the medication and/or that individual's parent or guardian. A Scout leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a Scout takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA policy does not mandate nor necessarily encourage the Scout leader to do so. Also, if your state laws are more limiting, they must be followed.

To funscout, If you were addressing your response to my post, I have to agree: God's churches would help any young woman who found herself pregnant or a mother in need. This applies even more so when the pregnant child is the victim of criminal action (rape, statutory rape, or incest). However, at a policy level, I also believe God's churches in this era should be working to say that sexual activity at age 12 is just plain wrong.

You have to provide the older youth with program that floats their boat, even as the younger ones are learning the basics. My son made Life Scout in his Troop in January. He asked the Scoutmaster for Life-Eagle materials, so he could map out his path. Kept asking Scoutmaster for same. Scoutmaster said he wasn't Life - Eagle coordinator, but when son asked for a name, none was given. Six months later, son completed eighth grade and went up to the Crew. PROGRAM matters MENTORSHIP matters OPPORTUNITIES for growth matter The older youth is approaching adulthood. If he does not find what he seeks, he will seek elsewhere!

My own son, since he's been a Venturer, has: - Staffed 3 years at Cub Day Camp - Staffed once at District Camporee - Attended 3 VOA Council-wide all night lockins - Attended one Council-wide sorta LT (4 days 3 nights) camp at our main reservation. From my experience, a keyperson volunteer who is willing to get a District/Council Venturing Officers Association up and running goes to the crux of the matter. The maturity level of the youth just isn't quite enough to go someplace and hope someone else shows up. They want encouragement. They want, even in business, a bit of fun. The idea, to me, is to show the Scouts there is still Scouting fun after they think they've gotten all the benefit they are going to get from a Troop.

Welcome to the campfire. Pull up a log, take a pull on the Nalgene. If you're - willing to be a servant leader - willing to be on the communication grid with your units, so you know what's going on - willing to point the way to resources (RT, NLE, Position Specific, Pow-Wow, UOS, Family Camps, Day Camp, Webelos Camp) - willing to BE THERE for the units on your list Then, you will be welcomed with open arms. If however, you are the invisible man, I promise that you will be bypassed. I've noticed that this Scouting things works really well if all the adults line up to support the synergistic whole.

Two comments. I won't speak for my parish or my denomination, but I honestly believe that if age 12 as the churchs' defined age of sexual consent was put forward at a voters meeting, state denominational convention, or national denomination, the response would be: NO!!!! This is not the 12th, 16th, or even 19th Century anymore. There is a lot to know for a young person to take their place in the world. Look at most of us. We want our young people to take advantage of Scoutings youth programs as long as possible. I wish I knew an answer to this. I know one answer: We parents have to be responsible for the upbringing and actions of our children. I am delighted my son has made it to 17 without drugs, alcohol, tobacco, or sexual activity. I attribute that to his being active in his church and in Scouting.

Mr emb021, I am going to respectfully disagree. URL lists are notorious for their rapid aging. That goes for online lists (pick your hobby, pick a website, I'll bet you a buck there is at least one dead link). Printed lists are worse, believe me. Now, if the Fieldbook people are willing to maintain a better linklist on the Fieldbook website...

Frankly, there's not enough information here to evaluate whether or not this Scout is Eagle material or not. Neil's first response along with Beavah's response describe a process of action-reaction-counteraction. These graph the steps of the dance between the Scout, his leaders, and the District/Council advancement committee as he requests conferences, boards, and appeals. Now, if the SM recommended the Scout, maybe the CC and advancement coordinator ought to go back and ask "why?"

OGE locked one earlier today.

Actually, I think the Court brought the matter to a public policy head. Even the US Supreme Court from time to time refers all the way back to English Common Law in its decisions. Read the slip opinions at their website. It's kinda neat to see how the Justices mix and match, depending on whether the issue is contractual, criminal, or tort. Getting back to Colorado, I think Ms Fitzgeralds comments are appropriate. The underlying message I received from her was this does not feel right for the modern age; we need to enact modern legislation. (emphasis mine) Think about it for a moment. A century ago, a bachelor's degree (or greater) put you in an educational elite. High school education would take you far in the world, and many common laborers had but an 8th grade education. Now, we advocate lifelong learning, and we work very hard to keep youth from dropping out of high school. A millenium ago, lives were short, and there were no modern tools and automation aids, save perhaps the millrace for a saw or grindstone. With a huge infant mortality rate, adulthood and responsibility for family came early. Folks did wed and have children before they were 20, and big families were the rule not the exception. The magic question is do we need the underpinnings of English Common Law anymore? When we do not, are we willing to invest the legislative energy to put modern law on the books? I think what Colorado intends to do next year is the right thing. (Edited for clarity)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Ed, Do you mean this one? Ed Mori said: By not defining where or when the camping must take place leaves it up to the MB counselor what to accept. So the blanket statement Anyone in any troop who interprets this is wrong and are not abiding by the rules of a merit badge counselor but simply fulfilling their own personal needs is incorrect. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Spun Thread: camping requirement It's in the OTHER thread labeled "camping requirement"!!!! YIS John