John-in-KC

I know a UC who says "I won't do email." Too bad that he's missing out on 95% of the outside-of-meeting communication between youth and parents in our Troop and Crew. He might have a handle on PLC decisions and meeting sites if he'd just come into the 21st Century. While a COR, I instructed my Pack: Commissioners paid for their B&G tickets

In your own eye, you're a Uniform Licensee. In a Uniform Pharisee's eye, you're a Uniform Libertine. If you want to see me measure correct placement of insignia, see my Army Blue or Army Green uniform, or my BDUs (I retired just before ACUs were mandatory possession items. The last time I checked, the Boy Scouts of America were neither the Army nor the Marine Corps, in spite of the fact the de la Renta uniform is strikingly similar to one of the USMC summer service uniforms ... and that is prohibited by statute law. Of course, that's why I think we wear the D*** colored tabs ... so we don't look like Marines.

Ed, given your parameter definition, As I said earlier, there'd probably be an AH-HA! moment for the Scout, and it wouldn't be good. There is one other thing I'd do, especially if I was Committee Chair: I'd find "disinterested" folk to sit this particular EBOR. Familiarity breeds contempt goes the old saying. The incident would come out (I've noticed the bad things usually rise to the surface), but the Scout doesn't have the disadvantage of the committee member who "just never liked Billy, and now's my chance to get back at him." I stand on all my other comments, including doing the process.

T-shirts: Perhaps the best garment ever made for summertime and young boys. Inexpensive, easily replaced when ripped or outgrown, can go into the water at the pool... Shorts: I've seen so many things. I don't think the "Blue Jean short", let alone the BSA cub shorts even exist anymore. Looking back to my brothers Cub experience (1958-61) and my experience (1964-1967)... blue jeans were the pants for him all the time, and for me were for everything except Pack meetings and Scoutcraft Fair (think Scouting Mall Show in the late spring at a Fairground). As a camp staffer, I've worn the camp T-shirt uniform (Scout shorts, sox, Scouting belt, and staff shirt) for several years: Staffers should be differently uniformed from participants. Helps participants find them when something needs to be done. Of course, come formal campfires or chapel, I've worn Class A uniforms, native attire or Tribal Attire depending on the staff guide for the Scout Camp. My thoughts.

SSS, I'm going to comment to your 3)... 1968-73 or so was my youth experience. Still 21 MBs, a project, tenure, and leadership, but... STAR: 1 (yes, ONE) Eagle required badge. LIFE: 5 Eagle required badges. The Scout looking at Life--->Eagle was still looking uphill. Today, STAR: 4 Eagle required MBs LIFE: 7 Eagle required MBs The Scout looking at Life--->Eagle can see the destination, if he decides he wants to go there. Composition of the Eagle required list: It's different. With one exception, it's neither easier nor harder. My exception is cooking. Cooking is given "a lick and a promise" as a young man goes from TF-FC, and then never really sees the light of day again. My Cooking MB has silver thread. I had one of the first of the orange chef's hat, fork and spoon patches. To me, cooking is an essential life skill of the adult male American, and should be part of the required matrix to Eagle. Of course, my own perspective and biases as a Dad are entering in here: I am no longer wed to the bride who bore our son. I've stayed single since then. Being able to make a stew, a pot roast, chili, soup or a steak from scratch is much better on my budget than going to the local watering hole.

Ed, There is still grey area. Is the conviction "fresh" (days to weeks old)? If so, there's an A-HA! moment in the Scout Spirit department, and it's not good. OTOH, The crime happened at age 13. The young man joined Scouting through a Scoutreach unit in Juvenile Hall (for MLR's sake, chartered by a non-governmental charity). The young man is now 17, and is turning his life around. That's gonna be a yes vote. In both cases, if you do the process, well and carefully, you'll have a leg to stand on when the (almost inevitable) appeal comes in! We as Scouters do right by our charges when we follow the process!

SWS, I don't think we need go there. Let's use Eamonn's son OJ as an example for the moment. He's looking at taking his work in OA to the Regional and National levels. As he works with his peers and Advisors, he'll be working with some very successful people. He is in a place where the first impression may not matter just for Scouting, but also for his future employment. I can see very clearly why he wants to go to poly/wool. For most of us, wearing the standard stuff works.

Remember to keep the DE and your ADC informed. DE won't be happy; his pay metrics include growth of units. It really does have to be a challenge to be a salesman on salary

Some of the scheduling is my own life. I reported complete to my TG in Sept, then had to do the Elder Care thing (that's a thread in itself :| ). Took me completely away from my home to theirs for 3 weeks. As far as Troop Meeting or RT, well, I'm not the best first line leader of boys, but I enjoy equipping their leaders. So... I'm on RT staff. We also have a good district and a strong RT (100+attendance monthly). Lots of friends there to share this As far as the disabling of the NO function, that happened back at Gilwell Field

Small adjustment: Had to move it to the January RT. It's a "getting the people together" sort of thing. As my TG and I agreed, the concept of the ticket is lifelong As Barry says so many times, "I love this Scouting stuff."

Ms SueM (Scouter, Beaver, and Staffer) wrote in part: The value of those beads around your neck is not in the impression that they leave with others when they see them on you, but rather a reminder to yourself that no matter your skill level in life, you CAN make a difference in the life of a boy in some small way! And isn't that why we do this thing called Scouting in the first place?? Sue, that is one of the most valuable statements about why adults serve in Scouting I've ever seen. Thank you!

Friends, Got home a little while ago from meeting with my Troop Guide. We reviewed the ticket items, both the ones that worked, and the ones that "didn't quite work." We discussed diversity, feedback, and using resources. We shared tales of our own kids, Eagles both and camp staffers both. My PL gets his beads December 5. I get mine two nights later. Our APL is set for his District Dinner in January. 3 of us have already been beaded. One is left (long story ). Life is pretty good for the Owls of C-40-05 Thanks to all. You've been part of the process as well. Learned a bunch here YIS John Owls C-40-05

MinnSM, I'm going to respectfully disagree with one clause of your post: "my focus has to turn to protecting my Scouts from unreasonable adults who appear to view their roles as gatekeepers," Here is a small laundry list of places where the "i" must be dotted and the "t" crossed, lest something not happen: - Business licenses (suppose the young man wants to open a garage out of HS) - College application - Financial Aid Application - AP exam application (or even the writing on the AP exam?) - Honors program application If the world ran on handshakes and "our word" still, we'd have a far better world. It doesn't. Believe it or not, you are teaching a life lesson when "Get the job done" means "Get it done right the first time." How many times have you or I worked overtime because we did not have time to do the job right, and we found there was plenty of time (our own) to do it over? YIS

Ladyleader, Overall, I recommend you attend Wood Badge. If you are not an outdoorswoman, I'd recommend taking BALOO, Outdoor Leader training for Webelos (as Lisa said, using whatever name it has this month), and Boy Scout outdoor leader. If you are going to be around the movement for any time at all, this is all useful training! Next, WB is first and foremost a leadership/team building course. If you've had lots of leadership pysch along the way, either in college or in the workplace, the content will be old hat. THAT SAID, the relationships and the teambuilding are lifelong! Another key point: WB is not a substitute for position specific training for the Scouting positions you will have while your children are in, and hopefully AFTER your children are out of, the program! If you stop learning in Scouting, something's wrong Do not worry about your ticket now. You will have time to form your ticket. You will have support to form your ticket. When you are ready, lots of us will gladly share resources to help you set and do your ticket. Let us know how you decide YIS John Owls, C-40-05 I meet with my TG tonight for ticket review WOOHOO!

As I understand things... We have a Scout who meets the requirements to request candidacy to Eagle: - Prior rank - Merit Badges - Position of Responsibility - Eagle Leadership Service Project If he presents an application, the Scoutmaster has two choices: - He can convene a Scoutmaster conference - He can refuse a Scoutmaster conference If the Scoutmaster convenes the conference, but determines Scout Spirit (our life away from Scouting) is not acceptable, the Scout has an appeal process. If the Scoutmaster refuses the conference, the Scout has an appeal process. IF A SCOUT REQUESTS A BOARD OF REVIEW, HE MUST BE GIVEN ONE. BOARDS OF REVIEW ARE NOT JUST FOR RANK ADVANCEMENT PURPOSES, THEY SUPPORT THE ADULT ASSOCIATION METHOD OF SCOUTING. That's at least what I remember from position specific training! If the Scout is denied an Eagle BOR, he (or his folks) immediately has cause to contact the Council and ask for assistance. I know what would happen in my District: The District Advancement Chairman would immediately withdraw the advancement of the Scout from his unit. He'd find a disinterested SM to give the SM conference. He'd convene a BOR from his own level. Now, would the boy earn his Eagle? Goodly chance NOT. If we follow Scoutings' advancement procedures, dot the i's, and cross the t's, the young man may not have a big ceremony. That said, he just might learn something from the process!

Duplicate post, content removed. Sorry...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Venture Robb: Are we talking of a 19 year old Venturer, in the context of the youth program of Scouting? OR Are we talking of a 19 year old who has registered as an adult leader in Cub or Boy Scouting? The G2SS is absolute black and white in regards to the youth program. The G2SS is still black and white as regards adult leaders. That said, its implementation in the field is a bit "shade of gray"ish. Sad, but true.

I have to admit, I rather like SSScout's take. The object of the exercise is not MY faith. It's my HAVING a faith. It's also ensuring the youth have A faith to hang their hearts upon.

May I add "Uniform Licensees?" This would be those who take a certain level of license with the uniform, but overall try to live to the spirit of the uniform METHOD: - I may be a RT staffer as a SECOND scouting job, but my first loyalty is to the units I'm chartered within. Thus, I wear my numerals on my RT shirt. I have to admit, I like "Uniform Pharisees". Very apt!

May I offer a format, something your Aide can easily use... Dear____________________, Please take this home, share with your parents, and return to me. Troop XXX wants to help you with your duty to God, and help you honor the Twelfth Point of the Scout Law. Would you please tell us: What major religious grouping (Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist or ?) do you belong to? What more specific denomination (Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Conservative, Sunni, Sikh, Lutheran, LDS or ?) do you belong to? Where do you worship? Place_______________________________ Address_____________________________ Phone_______________________________ Worship Leader's Name_________________________________ Are there any special restrictions upon you by virtue of your faith we need to know about? Thanks for helping us help you. Yours in Scouting, Chaplain's Aide NOTE using the Chaplain's Aide. Give your young man in his POR some responsibility to fill.

This is why we have Council Scout Executives, Council Advancement Chairmen/Committees, and District Advancement Chairmen/Committees. It's "ASK THE QUESTION" time! They will tell us the procedures. We should follow said procedures to the letter. I believe I'm in agreeemt with Scoutldr, FScouter, and jr56 upline in this thread. YIS.

Well, does the uniform guide permit the OA sash/lodge flap to be worn as articles of the Sea Scout uniform? Does the uniform guide permit gold tabs and a Regional/National patch on the Sea Scout youth program Class A uniform? Eamonn, I think your son is doing a fantastic, pragmatic job of slicing the pie just right. Break down and spend the money. It's HIS Christmas, after all...

My first comment comes from the Appendix (Age Appropriate Guidelines) to the G2SS: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf Camporees are "visit only" for Webelos. Klondike, to me, meets the definition of camporee: District event, competitive, for Boy Scouts! Further, from reading your material, many of your stations require certifications (Totin' Chip, Fire'm Chip), that Cubs, as I understand it are ineligible to earn. I would ask your DC and DE for guidance. Good hunting!

Absolutely concur with Fred and Trev.

1) It's perfectly right for folks to apply for a job and put Eagle Scout on the resume. It's a recognition of hard work. 2) It's OK for a politician to put "Eagle Scout" in his qualifications. Ditto. 3) IMHO it's NOT OK for a politician to IMPLY ENDORESEMENT from a BSA Council in his TV ad by having a coffee mug on his desk (barren but for the cup and his folded hands), with the Council CSP as the prominent logo!!