John-in-KC

I got a note yesterday from my Wood Badge Scoutmaster. He, in turn, had received a note from Mr Charlie Thorpe. Mr Thorpe is on the Venturing Outdoor Committee at the National Council, and the Lead Instructor for Master Educators of Leave No Trace within BSA. Below is the note, verbatim (except a munged email addy for Mr Thorpe): Hello All - For the first time, BSA is now able to train our own Leave No Trace Master Educators! "LNT Trainers" are the Scouters who help bring the important Leave No Trace message to the outdoor programs of our units (Packs, Troops, Teams, Crews, and Ships), Districts, and camps. We have a national goal of having a LNT Trainer available to hold Leave No Trace workshops and awareness sessions in every District and on every camp staff. A recent national camp standard requires that a LNT Trainer be part of every summer camp staff. "LNT Master Educators" (Masters) are the Scouters who conduct the 16- hour courses which train our very important LNT Trainers. We have a national goal of having enough BSA LNT Masters available to train the thousands of LNT Trainers needed in BSA - it is highly likely this will require our having at least one active LNT Master in every Council. We now have over sixty BSA LNT Masters and many are active, but we still have a long way to go before we have one active LNT Master in all 300+ Councils! We started development of our cadre of Master Educator Instructors last fall and some have co-instructed on NOLS and AMC LNT Masters courses. We taught our first BSA LNT Masters course to senior Philmont staff this May. Our first national open-enrollment courses are now in place for this fall at two of our national high-adventure bases (the third is in the works!). Northern Tier High Adventure Base - September 5-10, 2006 Paddling LNT Masters course (Boundary Waters Canoe Area) Frontcountry LNT Masters course (Superior National Forest) Philmont Training Center - September 17-22, 2006 Backpacking LNT ME course (Philmont backcountry) All in all, I am pleased that we are able to offer such a wide variety of BSA LNT Masters courses this first year. All will teach the same basic Leave No Trace principles and deep respect for our recreation lands. All formats will make a BIG point to cover as wide a range of recreational ecosystems and types of front/backcountry recreation as time permits (our BSA units go everywhere and do everything!). Each format offers its own unique opportunity to tailor the experience slightly to match your personal outdoor interests and your main LNT training challenges in your home Council. The frontcountry format LNT Masters course will go into additional detail on LNT issues very common to Scouting (family camping, large- group camping, car/tailgate camping, summer camp, Camporees, Day Camps, Camporees, etc.). This format has the added benefit of allowing participation by many who would choose not to do a backcountry trek for medical or physical reasons. For registration information contact Northern Tier or the Philmont Training Center. For any other information please feel free to contact me by phone (256.881.5426 d&e) or email charliethorpe AT att DOT net . It's hard to beat the incredibly beautiful locations of these two high-adventure bases and the early fall is an outstanding time to visit both. The fantastic Voyageur country at Northern Tier and the exquisite high-desert backcountry at Philmont are the perfect places for this high-end LNT training. Get ready to start training the important BSA LNT Trainers in your home Council and join us at one of these LNT Masters courses! Trace No Leaves, - Charlie Thorpe BSA Master Educator Lead Instructor BSA Leave No Trace Task Force National Outdoor Venturing Committee

Nahhh, It's ground pounders like me who think in terms of a 24 hour clock. Zoomies think in terms of a 12 hour clock (12 o'Clock High). Squids and Sea Scouts think in terms of Bells ... telling time by Bells is more complex than doing an 8-directional met in artillery gunnery!

Anyone care to bet on how long before we see a new National Camp Standard covering lightning procedures? Anyone care to bet on how long before G2SS gets an updated lightning section with mandatory policies? I do not say if either of the above are good or bad, BTW.

One thing I've noticed about several VOA sponsored activities in my Council: 1) These are young folk, sometimes they want to PLAY! We've had a couple of basically all-nighter mixers, where they used a climbing wall, bowled midnight - 2AM, fed themselves, and knew they were in a good and safe place. 2) Advancement? Many of these kids are B and A students in the high schools. They want a chance to decompress from homework, rehearsals, and the other mundane things of life. They come to a Crew to HAVE FUN. Just a couple of observations...

I have to agree with SueM here. I spent 20+ years learning and practicing leadership. At the end of the day, military service is about leading people off to do things. WB was a revisit to old ground. BUT!!!!! Revisiting old ground can bring an alternate perspective. More importantly, because of where I chose to do WB (out of my normal BSA Council netowrk), I broadened my network of Scouters I can learn from, ask for help from, and give help to. It's all about the people, and the people are all about raising young men to be great young adults.

Energy is the biggest one I see. Solar collectors and windmills will be standard outfit on most houses. Suburbia/exurbia probably will be moving back towards urban core areas within a single metro area. There will continue to be wars and rumors of wars.

Very cool Then have fun making good things happen for young Cubs

I deleted my post(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I deleted this one as a duplicate(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness Birds in the Wilderness Birds in the Wilderness... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness Waiting for the ANTELOPE & BUFFALO... Waiting for the ANTELOPE & BUFFALO... Waiting for the ANTELOPE & BUFFALO... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness Birds in the Wilderness Birds in the Wilderness... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness Waiting for the ANTELOPE & BUFFALO...

Joe, Understood. May you have unpredicted success in these two young men staying with Scouting

To NJCubScouter and all... The Scout was at the "Resica Falls Scout Reservation" per the news story. BSA Scout Reservations have BSA National Camp Standards, not just the G2SS!!! Go back and read Bluegoose's post (June 10, Noontime) earlier in the thread: "I got out my Camp School binder to check on this. According to the 2005 standards, a written emergency plan is required of all council-organized camps. "Standard M7: Written plans for handling emergencies such as floods, storms, tornadoes, fires, accidents, intrusion of unauthorized personnel, lost children, security, sickness and fatality are on hand and have been shared with adult participants. An "as built" drawing or drawings are availible showing all electric, gas, water and sewer systems and lines, with locations of shut-off swithces or valves should service need to be interrupted. "While I am not familiar with the 2002 standards, I do believe that the same standard was in place. As to the content or competency of the camp's emergency plan, I'll leave that up to the court." I mourn the loss of the young man, but there will be lots of discovery (if not already) and lots of hard questioning of the Staff Executive for the reservation, the Ranger, the PD, the lead commissioner, ad infinitum. Lord only knows how the jury will find.

Fred, two comments... The bags need to come out a couple of times during the cooking, so the Scouts can shake/squish up the contents and aerate them (getting fluffy eggs that don't feel rubbery as a result). With boiling water, gloves and tongs are a really good idea, and an adult (or Den Chief) watching the stove and fire is an absolute must.

I wonder how many others remember when Webelos meant: Wolf, Bear, Lion, Scout!!! I had the almost-beanie visor hat as a Cub in 1964-67. That's a part of the uniform that is gone Finally, DING DONG THE BERET IS DEAD, THE BERET IS DEAD, THE BERET IS DEAD!!!!!

CC Tonya, I applaud you for using the trip planning process every time you leave the meeting site!!! Very, very cool!!! That said, please call your local Council office, and see what their rules are on issuing Tour Permits from your apps. You do not want to be contemplating cancelling an activity at the last minute because Council hasn't given you a yes to a tour permit, when in fact they decided it didn't need a response back and placed your app in the files! Your DE should be able to give you some guidance here.

Joe, Good feedback from you, helps us give you input! Several items: You're an ASM, and the SM "heir apparent." Over the next year, sooner than later, ask to work into being the adult mentoring the SPL/ASPL. Let those two young people know in no uncertain terms that you expect their comportment to be better than anyone elses'. They set the standard. Encourage your other adults to move from partial to trained. The Scouts deserve us making the effort to be trained. We are guiding and mentoring the young folk who will lead our nation when we're old and feeble. If there is a 16 year old in that "older Scout" group, he can become a Junior Assistant Scoutmaster. As a peer who is "more than just a peer", he can enforce a "you are the standard" of the youth leadership, as well as set a role model example. Consider looking hard at the older Unit JLT package (if you can still find it out there). I know there is some debate, but I've had educational psychologists (K-12 types) look at both it and the new Unit Y LT and they say the older package is developmentally better! Plan, coordinate, and do junior leader training. Very, very few of us are born natural leaders, and the skills are invaluable for a lifetime. Finally, I'm concerned about the last paragraph. We're here to instill great things in young people. Planning for youth to drop feels counterproductive. These are the young men who need mentorship the most, because Coach is going to give them technical skills and competitive spirit, not the citizenship values we instill. Visit with parents of these young men as well. Above all, have fun. This Scouting stuff is fun!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Eammon, Thanks. You got me John

Joe, Welcome to the campfire. Pull up a log, and have a pull of water from your Nalgene. Lots of comments here. First, I assume you have New Leader Essentials, but otherwise, are you fully trained to be a Scoutmaster: Fast Start, Scoutmaster Fundamentals, and Outdoor Leader? If not, strongly urge these courses upon you at the first opportunity. Second, leverage both the Patrol Method and the Adult Association Method in getting mutual respect amongst your Scouts. Your PLC is a tool there, hone it well and use it properly ... That your son is being picked on may or may not be the tip of the iceberg. Let one of your ASMs supervise discipline for a while. Third, get the PLC in gear. What do they want to do? Are their ideas within the bounds of reality? Fourth, as SM you are concerned with Scouts advancing (advancement is a Method) but the details are less important than the growth of the Scouts. Do you have an advancement coordinator on the Committee who can feed you quality information about where each Scout is? If not, that's support you need from your CC!! We're glad to see you here.

Mr Bill Q, I have one question: How are you going to encourge or enforce complaince with those by-laws? Run the child out of the Pack because he is wearing the wrong hat? Run the Scouter who comes in and has a campaign hat for whatever reason out of the Pack because he wants to wear it? Given that the BSA Uniform Guide authorizes ANY Scouter to wear the campaign hat, it seems to me your bylaws take Uniform Policing to a new level Inquiring minds...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Mr Acco40, Not recently. Have not been on the Plaza since Eastertide.

While I find the BSA boonie hat somewhat uncomfortable (no vents and no canvas strip to attach odd pins to..) There are any number of khaki/tan boonie hats that will answer the mail. Have a Cub insignia (or the BSA FDL) embroidered onto it, and have fun!

It might be worth asking the Lions themselves: What would you like to know about your Scout Troop???

HOORAY!!! I used to be an OWL, and a good old OWL too (HOOT HOOT!! ) But now I've finished OWLing and I don't know what to do (HOOT HOOT!! ) I'm growing old and feeble, AND I CAN OWL NO MORE! So I'm going to work my ticket if I can... Back to Gilwell, Happy Land, I'm going to work my ticket if I can!

Lisa's advice about contacting the Course Director is spot-on. She's also right about if this guy is an obstinate sonofagun, then neither the SM or CC will want him near youth or other Scouters. Gee, isn't collaboration FUN? Her idea was better than mine How can the SM and CC deal with this ASM? First, let's hope the ASM is willing to listen and to change. That sets up a win-win. Re-reading the original post, he may have written a ticket item of the "create a viable planning process for the PLC of Troop 123". If so, it's still not his to implement out of hand. In order, the CC, the SM, and lastly but most importantly, the PLC have buy into it. Now, I know our ASM received classes in both active listening as well as in giving and receiving feedback. Now is the time for some feedback to him (it's a gift ) ... if he insists on ramrodding and over-riding the SM, there will be consequences, they will happen to him, and said consequences won't be fun. If the ASM is unwilling to change, there's quite possibly a lose-lose setting up here, with any Scouting son of the ASM being the final loser (care to bet he'd get pulled from Scouts?). Now, if after the CC and SM visit with the ASM, let's assume the ASM is unwilling to change, either overtly (he says so) or covertly (there isn't any change in any realistic time). Then, the CC and SM need to visit with the COR. While the CC can move the ASM to the Committee, the COR can decide if the ASM gets to be a Scouter at all. He is the one who can say (or write) "you will no longer serve in this unit, and your membership in BSA will not be renewed by us at recharter." That means whatever your current charter year is, you have to live with him getting through it. Lisa introduced another point: Who signed off on the adult leader app when this ASM transferred across? Who checked references? The COR receives the app from the CC. Did the CC do the checks neeeded? Did the COR backcheck? Why did this ASM transfer??? Thanks to the Lisa the Bobwhite for flying into this one John

Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness Birds in the Wilderness Birds in the Wilderness... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness Waiting for the FOX! Patrol... Waiting for the FOX! Patrol... Waiting for the FOX! Patrol... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness Birds in the Wilderness Birds in the Wilderness... Here we sit like Birds in the Wilderness Waiting for the FOX! Patrol! John A Good Old Owl