John-in-KC

Den Yells, just as Patrol Yells, build co-operation (if it's not in unison, it's cacophany!, also it takes a group decision that this is what it's going to be ), imagination (anyone can do "we got spirit...", it takes a little brainpower to come up with a good yell) and esprit (we're proud of our group). Scout Spirit is living the Scout Oath and Law in our daily lives...

Feedback is a gift: BW, I suggest you re-contact those folks. They need to send out a position paper, in plain and simple English, which explains what they said. The position paper needs to push down to every Commissioner, Scoutmaster, and District Advancement Chair... nationwide. Gee... sounds like an article for Scouting Magazine, with followup to ACP&P #33088.

I'm with Gunny. Even with a summer of Scout Camp staff to hold up finalization of his write-up, even with having to do his project execution phase in 1-1.5 hour visits to the hospitals which asked for his support, even with meeting a standard for District approval which some here have objected to... ... my son was able to do his project, from the seed of a vision, to his EBOR, in 8 months, and not be rushed. I think the ELSP is right about on measure (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

AFAIAC, Separate form. The popcorn is a council sale, your drinks are strictly for your unit.

I was stationed in Babenhausen (41st FA Brigade) and Frankfurt Abrams Complex (V Corps HQ). We had full array of things for kids, readily at hand. Playgrounds, schools, activities... all readily available. There was a fair bit of interaction with the local communities as well. Babenhausen in particular... we shared the 4th of July with them each year, big big fest on some open land behind the main Kaserne. In turn, our local neighbors shared their fests. Kids who go overseas with their parents have a great perspective on how interdependent the world really is!

Welcome to the Forums Have you talked to your Lodge Chief yet to get budget authority to buy from BSA Supply Service? Have you talked with your Lodge Adviser and/or Professional Staff Adviser to actually order them? I assume you are chair of your Lodge's C-team in writing this. If not, what's he doing about the task?

Have you done your unit fundraising application yet? Have you considered mixing lemonade and limeade as drinks? Sugar, water, lemon juice. Easily procurable at the grocery store, you might even be able to negotiate return of unopened materials. Fresh brewed sun tea also can go over well.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

ghermanno, You're on Osan AB (lovely memories of certain buildings during certain exercises there). I'd talk to the Wing PAO first and foremost about slides for the TV, and radio spots for AFN-K. I'd also be talking about stuff for the Base Newspaper. If you want to market to Camp Humphreys as well, ditto to their PAO or S-1. Get the Cubs who are there to the BX and PX in Class A uniform as often as possible. Get them in front of other folk. Oh, by the way, have someone check with some of the ROKAF folk who share the base. Check about Korean Scouting units in Osan City and Songnam. See if the units can do things together OH!! See if the Base Services Squadron folk will let you link a Cub Pack website into their pages. Look at National Council (and whatever the Far East Council has for its current name) website for guidelines! I think you can get a fair way without the formal production stuff. Does this help? J(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Internet advancement helps shift key entry burden from secretarial staff at Councils to volunteers. It really is that simple. From my perspective, unit inputting advancement to ScoutNet is a blessing, you've not seen how some folks records look. I've seen ranks earned but never posted in Cubbing, and MBs not earned but posted in Boy Scouting. Akela works at Tiger, Wolf and Bear. It's an element of the adult association method. At Webelos, the parent starts stepping out, and the Scouter (DL/ADL) steps in on requirement approval. When the youth moves up to Boy Scouting, ideally an older youth will approve the requirement, with a few exceptions being reserved for adults (the 2d Class requirement to visit a significant public official comes to mind).

Twocubdad, I will say this for my DAC and his Eagle project team: If a Scout is not approved for district sign-off at RT, he's given a phone number and an address. Our Advancement folk are expected to meet with the Scout and his parent when the Scout is ready to try again. BTW: Try again only gets to cover specific objections from the approver. Our District does not string youth along.

Yes, the Eagle Presentation set comes in Sterling Silver. I've bought 3: One for EagleSon, one for a friend of ours in our church who earned his Eagle, and one for a friend of ours across town. Whoever The Commissioner is, if he wants his vision to come true, he needs to find a way for BSA to pick up the tab. Not every family (or every Troop) can afford the sterling Eagle. Vision without implementation is a pipe dream. Feedback is a gift, someone told me.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

One comment: Our Council encourages kids to attend District Day Camp. To that end, we waive the late fee for any new Tiger (for that matter any Cub) joining at the end of the school year... to the point we will shake H&E to get him a camp T-shirt! The other side of this coin is age has to work upwards as well. His Mother and I held back EagleSon at K, malice aforethought. The upshot is he was a year older than his peers all the way up. He didn't "due course" bridge to Boy Scouts until he was weeks away from being 12.

acco, I understand what you are saying, but 2 of those 3 websites are not from the National Council. Further, since the National Council started posting Boy Scout Requirements #33215 online, I've stopped using meritbadge.org altogether (and a couple years ago, had stopped using it for USScouts when he mb dot org wasn't updating). Here is a page from the National Council website which is pretty darn clear: http://www.scouting.org/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/Boys/scouting.aspx From the page: Cub Scouting Boys of different ages have different ranks in Cub Scouting. As you go from Tiger Cub (age 7) to Webelos Scout (age 10), you learn new things and new skills that you use to meet new challenges as you get older. * Tiger Cubs. First-grade boys join a Tiger Cub den, where each boy works with an adult partner on the requirements to earn his Tiger Cub badge. * Wolf Cub Scouts. Second-grade boys graduate into a Wolf den. They go to weekly den meetings on their own, but their families still help them work on the requirements for the Wolf badge. * Bear Cub Scouts. Boys in the third grade are members of a Bear den. They also work with their families to do the requirements for the Bear badge, but boys this old have enough knowledge and skill to take on more of the work by themselves. * Webelos Scouts. Boys in the fourth and fifth grades become Webelos Scouts. Webelos Scouts do more advanced activities to get ready to graduate into Boy Scouting. Where you begin in Cub Scouting depends on your age at the time you join. If you join when you're in first grade, you will begin as a Tiger Cub. If you do not join until the third grade, you'll begin as a Bear Cub Scout. You won't have to go back and earn the Tiger Cub and Wolf badges.

The one disadvantage I see is that an ACM's biggest time elements are at Pack family campouts (if he's the BALOO trained person) and helping run Pack meetings. For both of those, I think you should be leading your charges in your Den, so effectiveness is a bit on the ?? side. Is there someone who can be your ADL?... or perphaps better, step up to Tiger DL, so you can be ADL there and ACM for the Pack? Lots of ways to combine this, and I believe you should be around for the long haul... not burning yourself out the first two years! Others will weigh in, and there's really no single right answer here. YIS and KISMIF, John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

SctDad, It's a Pack Campout if: - The whole Pack is invited. - Leadership comes from across the Pack. - The Pack's BALOO trained person is the event leader. - The Tour Permit, and the trip planning, is predicated upon the full pack being invited to go. If at the assembly, it's the CM, the MC who's BALOO trained, and your Den (1:1 ratio), well, it's a Pack event. Lisa's spot on on the arrow points: They can't be awarded on before the rank is earned, but they can be worked on. Remember, for Bear the Cub has a selection of achievements to earn, and what he overachieves on counts for electives.

Send cookies he can share with the other staff at one meal. That always goes over well.

Sounds to me like: 1) Your Pack needs to recruit at the elementary school this fall! 2) You need to start looking at the National Program. Program helps come to direct contact unit serving leaders in each edition of Scouter Magazine. Further, your District Roundtable has the mission to prepare you to present the National Program!

What ScoutNut said! From G2SS, boldface is policy level info: http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss03.aspx Family Camping Family camping: an outdoor camping experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection guidelines apply. Recreational family camping Recreational family camping: when Scouting families camp as a family unit outside of an organized program. It is a nonstructured camping experience, but is conducted within a Scouting framework on local council-owned or -managed property. Local councils may have family camping grounds available for rental at reasonable rates. Other resources may include equipment, information, and training. References: Resident Camping for Cub Scouting, No. 13-33814, Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines, No. 13-631, and Scoutmaster Handbook, No. 33009 I hope you are BALOO trained, and that you followed BSA guidelines in having camp.

"Apples and Oranges." Will you settle for Royal Galas and Granny Smiths? 1) There was a new field, never really seen. 2) There was new information, and much to be absorbed in a short time. 3) The staff itself was at the end of their season, and yet was maintaining high energy 4) There were new ways to consider older procedures. 5) There were the usual manner of life support issues. Now, a near perfect comparison would be between this program and the Cub Scout Resident overnight camp we run. Even so, the preparation for passing information to adults (parents) through the fire hose was better than I usually see at most BSA training.

Good work on the factfinding. I'd sure like to know the animus the Scouter who brought things up had against the Scout. Yes, I've not been thrilled with a few young men who approached Eagle. I just stayed away from their EBOR.

Crew21 Adv, My WB Patrol had the exact opposite attitude from what you wrote: "Probably the best advice for a District training team, is for them to ask learners to participate in the day's events as a youth. And adopt an experience based role, not acting infantile or childish, but going thru the role of using a Denner, using a Patrol Leader, and seeing what the boys experience." In fact, we excoriated the SPL, the CD, and the one 20-something who suggested we "play Scouting again." I've told this story before: The SPL screwed up, did not take the day 4 Patrol Leaders on a pre-walk of the 2d weekend campground for site selection as a PLC. Our Patrol did. By God, when we were dismissed to establish campsites, 4 of us had duty to claim the corners of our turf. We upset three other Patrols because we we were prepared. When the CD/PD (SM/SPL) confronted us, our response was "When did you schedule the PLC walk-through? That's right, you didn't.... pound sand." Needless to say, SM/SPL lost some face. Yes, we were using all the learning styles in the course, but in the aggregate, we had something like 20 years postgraduate education in the Patrol. We neither wanted to, indeed we refused to, be handled like children again. It is far easier, and far less demeaning, to take a few minutes after an element of training, and think through what the 11-14 year old going through his first time, than to reject his station and accomplishments in life and treat the Scouter below where he/she really is. The new Scouter is often behind the power curve in terms of technical skill, and may also be behind in terms of processing the skill as well. I just went to Freshman Orientation at University with EagleSon. He had a huge amount of data dumped on him. Separately, so did I. The staff worked us not as "live it again", but rather as "here is how you can best assist your child." Feedback is a gift. Rethink the processing of having your Scouters re-experience as youth.

Lisa, You're being properly prudent. I sent EagleSon on HS graduation band trip to Europe. Even with Plan A (early payment) and a signed contract, I was stuck for a fuel surcharge this spring. The Plan B (regular schedule) payment plan folk were stuck for 15% surcharge. Ouch Some thoughts: 1) I think telling Web II parents early on "next summer is a big ticket year" is right. I'm not sure about your local economy, I have MI friends who've been laid off. 2) I think offering the fundraiser to those who commit early is a good idea! I'd check with Council Finance person about rules of fundraising... 3) When I was a Scout, (40 years ago now...EEEK!) my Troop did two camps each summer: If a Scout was not First Class, he went to wherever the Troop did Scout Camp. If he was 1st Class or above, he could go on a backpacking trip and/or go to Scout Camp. Would an option like that work for your troop? Let us know how you decide...

Ed, As Beavah has more than once told us, we don't know how much we don't know here. The guy asking for help is a District Advancement Chair. He's obviously hit the wall in terms of a quandry. Not our job to vote this one; what we can do is help him prepare an EBOR, that if it goes the denial path, will be as close to non-appealable as anything out there. That means... - Having a certain amount of factfinding. - Having appeal-proof procedures when the Board does convene. - Making sure the next layer of key players are "in the loop" as this plays out. Come to think of it, there are two other folk who need to be in the loop: The Professional who advises the Council Advancement Chair, and the Council Registrar. They both should have all manner of connections.

I was out staffing a Cub Resident Camp this past weekend. You would not believe the tatoos some adult men have. Does ScoutNet even log youth religious awards? I used to send them in when I was an advancement coordinator in a unit, but I never saw them on a unit data dump. (When I saw my own SN record, the FOS and other $$$ were far better tracked than my training... sigh) For the UU kid and his SM... that debate is up in the stratosphere. If he works to earn the age-appropriate award, the unit should give him the knot. Heck, it gives his future BORs something to talk about as the young man progresses. For the Wiccan kid, have a friendly cup of coffee with the parents. I think it reasonable to ask at a BOR "Where do you worship? ... What do you do in worship? ... How does worship make you a better young man than you were yesterday?" The parents need to be able to help the young man grow in those kinds of questions. As far as a religious award for Wicca, from what little I know of the organizational structure, it's so decentralized there may well never be an award. As others and I discussed back in the "Scout's Own" thread, my duty as a Scouter is to promote a faith life in the young man ... and if it doesn't look like my faith life, that's OK . The responsibility of faith life belongs to the parents and to the Scout. Period.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Exactly what GW said. Sad day, and fire is indeed unforgiving.