John-in-KC

Narritcong and I are both attending PTC next week. Perhaps the most important thing I'll bring are eyes to see and ears to hear. From what I can see of the forecast, highs will be mid-80s (but a DRY heat) and lows will be mid-50s. From my last experience (2003), I assume PTC still uses the institutional mattresses (rubberized tops). That changes my camp load-out a bit; I tend to bring a mattress pad, if not indeed a second layer between my body and the bed. While I'll bring my down bag, I expect my old poncho liner will be enough. Basically, I pack as though I'm going to Scout Camp for a week, but with more Class A uniforms (since A is encouraged for sessions). I also tend to bring plenty of T-shirts for after-hours wear. I do bring a camp chair; it makes impromptu conversations at either the area shelters or around folks tents easier to happen. I do bring a hat. The Villa is up at 6500'. Bring a good sunscreen. I do bring a rain parka. Afternoon pop-up thunderstorms can do a deluge. I've seen 6 point deer in tent city; I leave smellables such as deodorant at home (or at least in the jeep). Any other "in particulars" people take to the Training Center?

I'll simply say: - There's a reason the Missouri Councils are near the top of the National list on Eagles earned, religious awards earned, and youth camped per season. - There's a reason youth attend resident camp for 5-6 years running ... in addition to doing HA or staff work, plus their other interests.

Take them on a hike. Have a cookout. Have a bike safety clinic and five-mile ride. Work them through a fairly easy MB (computers comes to mind) over a couple weeks. Get them to have fun. OBTW, also... look at other Packs in your immediate area. If they don't have Den Chiefs, deploy Den Chiefs. There's nothing that says you can serve only one Pack.

NC: What say we ask Dave Richardson when we see him Monday at the PTC NLAS conference? He may be a Relationships guy, but I'll bet he knows who to ask. Then we can report back here with a name and a position at National... There's a saying I once heard, and it really ought to be the subject of a Scoutmaster minute: Knowledge is power... but only when it is shared.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Fred, I agree with Bob that COH's, by SM Handbook and Committee HB, are "Committee in Nature." I agree with you and gwd, that youth doing planning and coordination, followed by the MC work, as part of a legitimate requirement of an Eagle Required MB, is absolutely wonderful. Troops with strong young men who can step up to that plate in particular should be thankful to the stars! As Beavah has said more than once, cross-comparing the materials published by National will occasionally cause you to ask "HUH?" Does that make sense?

Gunny, NP. My points were: 1) Was at camp but not in direct observation of the incident and 2) Whatever the incident was, the rangemaster (an adult our age) bumped the echelon to above his pay grade. That implies it was way beyond the norm.

Since EagleSon is a part of that Crew (it's his 3d year on staff) ... It's made up of HS and college kids. Farthest away member is 250 miles during the school year, but she makes holiday events. EagleSon this fall will be 140 miles away as a freshman, another young lady will be 60 miles away (different direction). A couple of the HSers are across the metro (35 miles or so) from the Advisor's home and the church where they meet (about 3/4 mile from Advisor's home). Another 4 youth or so are within 5 miles of the Advisor's front door. I do know that the kids communicate through facebook and email during the program year. BTW, one great retention tool we have in our Council is a major scholarship endowment. Camp staffers going to juco, vo-tech, or university all get $$$, with awards increasing with service.

A couple of comments to amplify on my good friend WAKWIB's note (we're in the same district): In the Heart of America Council, 99 44/100% of all Tribal functions happen at the H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation. When we had the 75th Anniversary of the Tribe in 2004, we did have some functions in Kansas City. Year round, Scouts are evaluated so they may be considered for advancement. In the Pony Express Council, the Tribe is a year-round activity. Their several SE's over the years, Executive Board and Executive Committee have opted not to join the Order of the Arrow to this very day. MOS was brought to Missouri by H Roe Bartle ... former SE for Pony Express (1920s) and Kansas City Area (1927-1953) Councils ... AND the mayor of Kansas City (1953-61) and the guy who convinced Lamar Hunt to bring an AFL franchise to KC (hence the Chiefs... for Bartle was known as the Chief)... AND the guy for whom Bartle Hall Convention Center is named.

Gunny, That particular year, I was re-taking BSA Lifeguard (first time since my WSI in my 20s). That's a full-time class in and of itself. I was a little busy to know exactly what had happened at the range. Many of us knew the range director, normally he visited quietly with a SM if he ejected a Scout after the fact. That he sent the Lead Commish implies something fairly egregious.

Here in Missouri we can get custom plates for Eagle Scouts, Arrowmen, and members of either the Pony Express or Heart of America Council branches of the Tribe of Mic-o-Say. EagleSon has asked for Eagle plates. His vanity will be "tbatps" for Tuba Taps. He plays the tuba, and uses it instead of a bugle at our Bear Resident Family Camp. He helps the Camp Director lead the kids to campfire with it, and he plays Taps at lights out. It's become a tradition in our camp, along with the Flag retirements we do to end our campfires.

The boy was in EagleSon's year group. He had made Star Scout, and we had nominated him for a camp honor. He was the current ASPL. He was one of three troublemakers in the Troop, and the ringleader. I won't go into the details, but we had a visit from the lead commissioner of our camp after he'd been ejected from a range. That was Day 3. On Day 4 (we have a 10 day camp), he did something else ... whatever it was, it was enough to have the Camp Director visit our camp Scoutmaster and CC. He'd been disruptive at meals, to the point a staff member had chosen to sit at his table twice. One of our Troop resident Grandpa's is a respected Scouter in our Council, an active member of the Executive Board. The adult consensus was to withdraw the camp honor (it had not yet been given). Our sage Scouter looked the camp Scoutmaster and CC in the eye... if it's enough to pull the honor, it's enough to send him home. We called his parents. They had to drive 2 hours to be at camp by 7PM. CC and one other adult, under two-deep, held the boy back as the rest of us started off to campfire. Two other adults packed his gear and brought it to the roadhead. When we came back from campfire, we held a brief all-hands meeting. That was the last time we saw him in the Troop. I hope this helps.

By the letter of both the SM Handbook and the Committee Handbook, BW is correct. I really like what gwd has done with her youth! If your youth can hang, then they can take over a fair bit of the work. Of course, the Advancement coordinator has to give input on what the youth have earned, and someone needs to coordinate the food! Can't have a COH without food.

There's a certain person who doesn't believe in the current program of BSA here... it is he who must not be named Jim Terry, our former SE and the current Deputy and CFO of Scouting, brought Mr Mazzuca recently to the H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation. I believe 99 44/100% of all Scouters find him good people

Ours is a Crew because the young adults like to do fun things throughout the year. There's lots of small stuff ... minigolf, winter ice skating, we do various VOA events, and the kids get to go to camp before they hit their own season.

Read it here... http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2008-07-20-boy-scouts-advice_N.htm Fair Warning: Some people on this Forum might launch after reading this...

Let me think about this: Wool: Renewable resource. Sheep eat grass, grow wool, it gets shorn, repeat cycle. Not flammable Nylon, polyester, polypropolene: Non-renewable resource, consumes high dollar petroleum, flammable. This is a bad decision! Better to offer a second color (I've seen a jac-shirt in a fairly deep green that looks actually better than red) than to dump wool for any other material.

That will be a blessing. Do you envision a replacement of an existing requirement badge, reduction of an elective badge, or a bump to 22 in requirements?

One of our Crews in my Council is the CORE of a camp staff... but they are not the only youth involved. It's co-ed BTW. Many of the youth join this particular Crew because the Advisor is just plain good people, and they really like the mentorship year-round.

Has SM visited with your UC or District Commish on this? Have you visited with the District Advancement Chair? Made sure he understands that Scout Spirit (live the Oath and Law in daily life) clocks need rewinding for two boys? As BW mentioned, when did the SM/CC find about the vandalism each time? This could be grounds to call Mom/Dad and have them come and get the kids and remove them from the camp. Trust me, when Mom and Dad have to get time off to drive 2-4 hours (at $4 a gallon gas) for misbehavior, they tend to be upset with their children. Why is the Committee involved in the first place? This is a program issue, and the SM should have his feet held to the fire for discipline management. He should be setting consequences which matter. Why isn't the PLC involved? This is a good chance for them to learn that consequences of youth actions touch all of them... and they might be tougher on a peer than the adults are? As much as you are looking at the boys, I'd be looking at how the whole Troop functions. The boys can and should be dealt with, and there are ways to deal with them. What I see more is that the left hand and the right hand of the adults are not working together. There are more issues than two boys here ... there's a whole matter of who does what to whom within your Troop, both in the youth program and the adult support. One part of the fix is a lot of training, for both the program folk and the committee folk.

I've had PM correspondence with more than one member of this network. They know my real name, and I theirs. OTOH, in our PM correspondence in the past several years, you have never been willing to disclose your name. Further, there are folks, such as Ed, who use their true name here. If you won't consider my request, consider his endorsement instead. Tell you what: Next week I'm at PTC. I'll have a chance to visit with some folks from the Relationships Division at National. I'll ask them to have the advancement folks validate what you said, with names, and get back to me.

Shortridge, I'd have to retrieve my copy of my BS Handbook, but the list has been fairly stable for going on 40 years. As I recall, I used Scribe to get from Star to Life, but PL to get from 1C to Star. SPL was there, but I chose not to use it. Yes, it is responsibility, not leadership. The Warrant Offices of my generation (instructor, bugler, Scribe, Den Chief) were that way as well. To BW: This is a matter best worked through locally between SM and young man. I personally think a broader exposure of duties is better for a young man ... just as I took a year of auto mechanics in HS, though I never intended to enter the craft. I knew more about my car, and could save myself some money. The young man who has held an array of jobs learns more about how the whole thing fits together. It's not a matter of what is right or what is wrong, it's a matter of how does a SM best assist a young man in his growth and development.

DYB-Mike, Non-profit status vis a vis sales tax may go State by State. Our State and my Council had a huge issue over sales tax at camps and Scout shop a few years back. Took some Scouter-Legislators, and legislation to solve the problem. ManyHats... is syrup, CO2, and dispensers available? That may dramatically lower your cost per portion. What have you decided on the unit fundraising app?

All the more so when the moniker "Bob White" is a WB patrol name and thus a nom de plume. "Thus saith the Lord" only works when reading from Holy Scripture.

I agree with those who question DC to Star, again DC to Life, and again DC to Eagle as their major POR. The Scout may not get a "well-rounded" experience in leadership. Now, if I remember correctly, the Den Chiefs Cord requires a year of service to keep. If a Scout is trained and is doing his Den Chief the way it should be done, he may well use his spare Scouting time in that POR. Good time management may mean he doesn't go after a concurrent in-Troop POR. That said, I've no problems with Den Chief as a warrant office or POR for Star, Life and Eagle. A good Den Chief helps bring home the bacon in terms of recruiting the next years' worth of kids from Cubs to Boys...

Looking back, The most important thing I needed for the course was a heart to serve the kids. Everything else flowed from that