John-in-KC

Since nldscout is the resident Judge... I'd sure like to hear from the resident Advocate... There's a lot we don't know here. - What is proven, alleged, and just plain rumor? - Of anything alleged, what's being dealt with by the justice system? Further, what is juvenile, and off the books, and what if anything was dealt with as an adult, and is on the books? - What, if any, was dealt with directly between the store and the young man, with agreement "this will never be mentioned again?" I think I'm going to change my response to ketchome... Not only should he talk with the Council Advancement Chair, but also the District Commissioner and the Council's General Counsel. Do the right things, including denial if appropriate, but do them in an orderly way that others can easily understand. I do commend ketchome for asking and thinking ahead in advance.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Normally I ask unit serving folks to contact folks like you. In your case, I think it's time for a friendly cup of coffee with the Council Advancement Chair. it sounds like you've decided to drop this hot potato in his lap. "Live the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life." This young man may well have blown through Trustworthy and Obedient. Much will depend on if the matters are alleged or proven. If proven... I'd be making sure the young man knows his appeal rights, for I'd have little to do with advancing him. Document your decision, forward it to the Council Advancement Chair. Let us know what happens.

Since Mr Crew21_Adv's profile lists him as OCONUS, I suspect he has accurate working knowledge. Certainly his ideas sound like stuff I saw on AFN-Europe and listened to on AFN-Frankfurt all those years ago. They also sound like things I've seen when TDY to USFK for various and sundry reasons.... Worth printing his post off and following up upon...

Have you had someone self audit against the following: http://www.scouting.org/media/identity.aspx BSA Organizational Identity for Councils AND Units ?? http://www.scouting.org/webmasters/units.aspx Advice for personal and unit Web sites ??? Have you read your local Council web guidelines, and self-audited to ensure full compliance? FOR PACK 7: YOU HAVE FULL NAMES OF YOUTH MEMBERS ON ONE OF YOUR PAGES. NOT GOOD (no personal identity of youth member National policy)

I've observed volunteer burn-out. It's not pretty. Too much of a good thing becomes not a good thing. Our service in Scouting is not the 50 meter dash ... it's akin to a trek at Philmont. Longer time, less energy in the moment, except on occasion. I'd hope all will pick up the slack when there's a need ... but when a volunteer is treated by the parents whose kid he supports as a free babysitter, that's a danger signal: It's time to re-assess, critically, participation in that particular unit. In taking stock, consult with friends, the UC, other unit leaders, and the COR. Let us know how you decide...

First of all, who is talking to the AFN-Korea commander? He or she is going to have to work the AFRTS/AFIS/OSD-PA bureaucracy. I can see this easily becoming a matter between 5 sided daycare center and Irving. AFRTS homepage is: http://afrts.dodmedia.osd.mil/ AFRTS advertising inquiry info is: Radio/TV Spot Inquiries 703-428-0256 rtpo@hq.afis.osd.mil On the BSA side, this is a matter for your Council Scout Executive or Council Commissioner to ask back through Region to Irving. You're wanting content to fill PSA space. There may already be an agreement between BSA and AFRTS. Haven't needed to watch AFN in years, so that's yours to work. What is your position in the BSA food chain? The closer to being a member of Council Key 3, the better the probability of a response. Good hunting. (This message has been edited by John-in-KC) Edit was done by request of poster!! Eamonn. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Ed, Not necessarily so. H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation, Heart of America Council, still runs a 10 day camp cycle... Check in Day 1 Program Days 2-4 Program Days 5-7 Visitor Sunday (wherever it ends up falling) 8 Makeup Day 9 Go home Day 10 This year, we will fill 3 500 Scout camps for 6 sessions each.

"But don't let the SM decide what next year's adventure will be. That's up to the boys!" Yep, Trev said that right! Additionally, have your youth look closer in too. Appalachian Trail... Hiking in the Adirondacks... many Councils have HA bases that are just as exciting, and certainly more unique, than the National 4 (we haven't mentioned Philmonts outlier, the Double H Ranch). The important thing about the National 4 is they are common experiences which many youth can have and bond under as they become adults. I submit there is every bit as much challenge on some of the Council trails! Get the youth to study up and do the research. Amazing what can be found from google. Would they like it if they can go farther, longer and do more for less $$$? Your parents might. Good lesson of personal management!

Personal thoughts: 1) Unit autonomy? Watch that go away. I've seen franchise places, I've seen corporate shops. Franchisee has more freedom than internal management. 2) Want compliance? You'll get it. BSA will look Commissioner's Service in the eye and make them the enforcers. 3) Oh, by the way... what about all those separate corporations called Councils, and their assets and resources? What about assets/resources administered by foundations which BSA can access but doesn't own? Changing the pattern will definitely keep a generation or so of contract lawyers profitably employed. Again, my thoughts only.

Lots of good points in this thread. Lisa identifies one stereotype of a CP: The organization which holds it Scout units hostage. I know, because she's shared with us here, how she's tried to improve the relationship. They don't want that, but they're also willing to hold the numbers, tradition, and equipment hostage. Gern identifies another stereotype of CP: "You do THAT? That would destroy our youth program!" They've long ago forgotten that Scouting is to be an integral part of their youth program. BW identifies the optimum. Sadly, optimum and most common are not the same. Beavah shares how we get from where we are to being measurably closer to optimum. Crawl, walk, run... if you slap the whole contract on the table, who wouldn't walk away? Pick one area for improvement ... maybe leader selection and support ... and start from there. Build a road map to getting there from here ... but this isn't Wall Street, and results won't happen overnight. It'll take months to several years ... if you don't hit a hostage taker. It also takes support. The unit needs the gentle nudge of the District... professionals, Membership/Relationships folks, and Commissioners ... not being the hammer, but gently sharing what right looks like. Teamwork takes time and effort.

ney a ti, Rest assured the language in the OAHB was dumbed down!!! between the 1965 edition and yours. Each element was specifically called a test! Even then, the Candidate was the only judge of his Candidacy, but one of the key jobs of the Ordeal Master and his Adviser were to identify and counsel those who were not taking the Ordeal with sufficient gravitas. I am offline this weekend, I will post specific quotes next Monday in the restricted area.

Pretty much what Frank and acco said: We tell the young man: "The paperwork must process through National. Expect that to take 10 days to a month. Until then, know that you are an Eagle Scout, even if you do not yet wear the patch, neckerchief, or medal! "When you get your credentials, we'll give you your Eagle patch at a Troop meeting. You can start planning your Eagle Court of Honor immediately, we'll provide you support as we say in our Troop ECOH planning letter. "Congratulations, you've become an Eagle Scout."

I used to be patient, and have goodly patience too. But now I've been a working with adults I don't know what to do I'm growing old and feeble and impatient as heck anymore.. So I'm gonna work my ticket if I can... There might even be a CD's minute in all this

The Dallas Morning News, hmmmm... Can anyone here say "tame reporter for the PR Department in Irving?" OTOH, it's not a Wilderness MB student lighting a fire in Utah "no fire" country, nor is is sod-surfing in Georgia. Sometimes we count our blessings

Like hitting the "send" button, eh, Neil???

I thought it was Babe the Blue Ox's tail dragging ground on a really hot Arizona day...

Let me make this simple: Venturing is a different program and a different program division from Boy Scouts. The Methods are different, representing further growth in a youth's ages and stages. The uniform is different. The degree of independence afforded youth is different. Oh by the way, Venturing can be co-ed. It's even separately chartered from a Boy Scout Troop. It has an Advisor vice a Scoutmaster, and it has a President and operating officers. The premise of Venturing is yet further independence from older adults ... as young adults start operating independently of Mom, Dad, and others. A VENTURE patrol is an internal operation of a Scout Troop. It is not Venturing. If you have too many older youth for one Venture Patrol, open a second. It's that simple. Don't confuse the two. If you want Venturing, create a Venturing Crew!

< Shouts from the rooftops > UNIFORMING IS NOT A METHOD OF VENTURING. < / Shout > If those who are chartered in the Venturing Crew as Primary Memberships, or who are solely chartered in the Venturing Crew, so desire, they may choose a uniform. It may be anything from a T-shirt to coat and tie. It all depends on them. If they choose to wear BSA Supply Division uniforms, they should wear them with pride. I do know Crews who have opted for different pants than BSA supplies, citing quality, fit, and finish challenges. Don't mix and match Venturing articles of uniform with the Boy Scout uniform.

My logic is this: We can give you all manner of recommendations, but if we want to teach these kids how to lead and how to manage, why not give them the tools and the chance to do research? Besides, it gives you a chance to talk about fuel economy, and how to make good choices Let us know how you decide to approach the challenge, and what the young men actually do in the process!

2 years ago, I was out helping Mom and Dad through some tough times. Went to District RT in their neck of the woods. Their home turf is heavily LDS. I found it very interesting. Mom and Dad live in the shadow of the Sierra Nevada range. Out there, LDS Scouting looks far more like traditional Scouting than some traditional units look like out here in Flyover Country. Of course, with millions of acres of wildnerness and trails to choose from, those young men have an outdoor opportunity beyond what many of us can only dream of. LDS units are like any Scout unit; they depend on the quality of leadership provided at the top. When the layers of leadership mandate that those charged with Scouting support must complete Wood Badge in the first 24 months of their tenure, well, there's a push on to do training.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Ahhh, But now you're talking water rights, and if you think I'm going to tell my Missouri legislators to be altruistic and fund other peoples' water needs, you have another think coming. Having grown up in the Peeple's Republik of Kalifornia, I can tell you all their water issues are internal to the state, and there are still fights going on. Los Angeles recently conceded the battle on the water coming from the Owens River, and there is now recharge of what had become Owens Dry Lake. That was a memorable court battle! There is a theory of history that says as much as the battles over the millenia in the Middle East have been about religion, they've also been about ... water.

Gern, First, Boy Scouting is the only BSA program which does not have a faith based requirement. Venturing has a Religious Life Bronze and the Trust Award. Granted, the Venturer can choose his or her own recognition path, and need not earn these awards. I'd be ok if the National Advancement Committee made, as a condition of earning Star Scout: "Earn the age appropriate religious award for your denomination."

Scoutldrs post came close to actually kicking in the full-fledged, multi-page, no-holds-barred debate. I'll honor Michaels' original request and take the debate away from his question. As for me, here's what I see: If BSA drops the DRP, we lose the support of the LDS church, the Methodist church, and quite possibly the Catholic church. That's thousands of units without a home, if indeed we get to keep the kids. Keeping the kids is not a sure thing if LDS drops us as their youth program. I know both the American Legion and the VFW have instructions to their Posts to pick up charters of Scout units dropped by churches and schools, but I'm not sure they can pick up enough charters to cover this shortfall. Over and above all this, without calling Scouting a church (it isn't), I like the clarity of the position for adults. As I've stated elsewhere, I want the youth to have room to grow and make decisions; if he eventually decides and can carry the argument for atheism, that's the time we have to deal with him. Fasten your seatbelts...

Mr Meissler, There should be someone in your Council Service Center who is the designated "go-to" person for ScoutNet apps, including Internet Advancement and Internet re-charter.

CP: I submit there were enough boxcars in the yards of the various railroads serving New Orleans to deal with evacuation. Governments also have the ability to declare martial law and clear an area. Ray Nagin and Gov Whatshername (mary) Landreau failed their citizens when they chose not to take such measures. Instead, we got the Superdome...