John-in-KC

There is no such thing as "Troop Approved." Merit Badge Counselors belong to District and Council Merit Badge Counselor rosters. The District Advancement Chairman approves all MB Counselors. The actual words on this are findable in Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088. The key point here is the Scoutmaster is the gatekeeper in assigning MB Counselors. He may assign in-house, or he may go out-of-house. It's his call. The issue involving this young man is that he had a Counselor assigned by his Scoutmaster (I hope ... you as CC are out of your lane if you are assigning MB Counselors). From what you say, the Scout bypassed this Counselor. That's why the mentoring process described in Requirements #33215 is so important. The Scout should have gone to the SM. The SM should have signed out a merit badge application with a Counselors name and contact info. As OGE notes, if the Counselor signed off, the purpose of the second signature on the app is "chain of custody" ... so the badge can be placed on an Advancement Report, or submitted via Internet Advancement. Here's some reading material from the National website: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/guideformeritbadgecounselors.aspx http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/FAQ.aspx http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/RankAdvanceFAQ.aspx http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx Does your Troop follow established BSA program in youth obtaining applications and then turning them in? If you do, there may be a leg to stand on should there be an appeal. If you do not, ask your Unit Commissioner to come in and re-train all, from SM to you (including Counselors and the Advancement Coordinator) on correct MB management procedures. As I said before, call your District Advancement Chairman. Do it today. Get him or her in the loop and as your ally ... before he must become an impartial investigator.

Call your District Advancement Chairman. Do it today. From what you have told us, this Scout has sidestepped a fair number of pieces/parts of Boy Scout Requirements #33215 and Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088. It looks like your Scoutmaster has been sidestepped in his mentoring and development role. It looks like, from what you tell us, the MB Counselors are not prepared to accept the work of the Scout. Do this right. Get your SM and yourself together and go have a cup of coffee with the DAC. Inform your COR about what you're doing, and why. You may also want to inform your UC and the DE. That way when Mom calls and complains, folks are already aware of the broad outlines here. Keep us informed. We learn too from each of these situations.

Gunny, I agree. ANY TEST is a learning opportunity, done right. I just wanted to make sure that National has said during the 80+years of the Order that the Ordeal is a test of 4 tests!

Our pack passed on popcorn, and sold Christmas wreaths instead. The area was overly dense in Scouts selling popcorn. Wreaths sold better, and the profit margin was also better. Yes, Tigers and Tiger families sold too.

What Eamonn said! Unless you are a member of the Chartered Partner of both units, or a Scouter serving the Troop in particular, you've done what you should.

Too much here to digest for me. There's layers of complexity starting with did the young man or did he not have Advancement Committee chop to begin his project execution. I will let the local Council and its Advancement Committee sort this one out. I will say one thing: There's a tremendous amount of emotion invested here. It's time for all concerned to step back and have piece of pie.

Funny. I recall the script for the Pre-Ordeal and the Ordeal calling it a test. From the 1965 edition of the OA Handbook (1970 printing), p 25 (my personal handbook): Talking to the responsibilities of the Ordeal Master: "He mus be extremely careful that each candidate fully understands the symbolism of the pre-Ordeal ceremony and the reasons for all of the Odeal tests to which he is subjected..." I omit the remainder because it describes in detail the Ordeal. Is it a learning experience for young men? Yes. IS IT A TEST FOR YOUNG MEN? YES. I rest my case.

During our spring and fall inductions, it's a full days work. We've got cheap labor, and by golly, Ranger takes advantage of it!

A few years ago, we implemented the Nemat hike in our Lodge. When I Nemat, I like to talk, a lot, about the meanings of cheefulness, service, and brotherhood (yes, out of order deliberately). There seems to be almost a fetish these days to get membships sealed. I know this... I like Nemating during Scout Camp more than induction weekends. I spend all day with my charges, and we have lots of opportunity to talk about the Order ... to include talking through what was once called the Brotherhood Questionaire. Frankly, I'm more concerned that the ethic stays with them when they are 22 or 23 or 30 than I am if they lock into the ethic at 13 or 14.

Keep It Simple, Make It Fun. Make sure the least able boy in the group is your pacesetter. Work to the standard, not to the time. This is not a race, this is supposed to be fun for the boys. Your job is their fun.

GW, And that's where you ask your DE and District Commissioner to pay a business call on the IH...

When I was a Candidate, My totem included 4 beads... one to be broken each time we broke the silence. After each rest/discussion/reflection session, those who had broken beads were taken offline by Advisers and Lodge senior Arrowmen. There were long and careful heart to heart talks. These days, I don't think any Lodge would dream of calling Candidates down to the front of the campfire ring and having totem beads broken publicly. We'd call it humiliation and a violation of BSA YPT. Of course, this was 1970...

Gern, Our leaders taking Council Contingent Crews to BSA HA bases have to, in advance of accepting the assignment, meet the Philmont standards, or they are not selected as leaders. I guess we're not there yet...

What is Super Achiever? A council level award? In our Council, we have a special patch for earning all 20 Webelos Activity Pins... it's called the Twentier. Take a breath. You've got 18 months. Priority 1: Make sure each member can earn his Webelos rank. Priority 2: Make sure you've a plan to get each member their Arrow of Light. THEN fill in the gaps with all 20 pins. Your mission is to have them ready to graduate to Boy Scouting. KISMIF!

What Scoutldr said is true. The Chartered Partner of the unit (church, Kiwanis, Rotary, VFW, PTA...) is the licensee of Scouting from the local Council. The Executive Officer (latest buzzword for Institutional Head) of the Chartered Partner and his/her Chartered Organization Representative are the folks who approve unit serving Scouters. Normally, usually, generally, most of the time, the COR acts in the name of the Chartered Partner. They cannot remove anyone from BSA. That is a Council responsibility. Normally, the limitation is "You are no longer to serve as a (position) in (unit). Do not frequent the premises again during a Scouting event." Now, if there's a disagreement between the IH and the COR, that's a matter for the internal structure of the Chartered Partner. Best advice: If you're not a member of the CP, stay away from internal politics, even if it means leaving the unit.

Gern, The last two years, my Council's staff app, for both paid and volunteer staff, has expressly required consent for a credit check as a condition of service. Granted, that's a slightly different beast than a new Scouter signing up... Now, "are we there yet?"

Get them started with the stuff they can do at MyScouting now , as well as reading much of the Cub-specific info at Scouting.org . That'll help avoid the deer-in-headlights mode

Welcome back. Take training! KISMIF

90% what EricKelly said. The other 10%: Adult Association works for Scouters too. Being around good people is as helpful to us grownups as it is to the youth.

FScouter, I've been given a couple of pencil signed and numbered prints for my higher end FOS $$$. What emb021 said: Whether its Scouting or my alma mater university, non-profits have endowments and actively fundraise for them. The West family of awards keeps the pressure off the "sweat equity" awards from being dollar driven. My problem is simple: Will someone show me the sweat equity that goes into a 180 dollar contribution for NESA, vice 25 bux every five years? We're not talking the equity that got the young man his Eagle. We're talking after-effects. Ditto PTC. What sweat equity goes into getting folks to apply for it? I can build a display just like what my Patrol did in WB, touting PTC, and when names come down the line... boom, I'll get a knot? For SB and DAM, for those who I know who have them: Hard work, across years, to make Scouting happen for kids is what get folks these. Not $$$(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

FK, All I can do is recommend you contact your Staff Professional Adviser and your Lodge Adviser. Invite them somewhere for coffee. Share your concerns that the Order is not meeting expectations of an honor organization. 1 voice may not get their attention, but if 10-20 voices in your Council start saying something, that will get their attention!

P212, I expect "sweat equity" as part of any training or service award Scouting gives. We do need to motivate and retain volunteers. In the two recent award announcements, NESA lifetime member and PTC, my specific objections are: 1) There is an award already in service (standard Eagle Scout knot, PTC conference temporary patch) 2) The new award has a monetary basis to it ((a) We already have the West family of awards) as the primary basis of earning it. 3) The sweat equity to earn the knot is minimal. I have good friends who have Award of Merit and the Beaver. They are some of the hardest working Scouters I know. The lady who is Director of our Council Bear Resident Family Camp... she is also a District Commissioner, will transition this summer to Asst Council Commissioner, is Dean of next years COmmissioner's College, works on the Commish training team, is active in our OA lodge, and on and on and on.

OGE, Our first problem is we're training youth to do this on a rotating basis. If we get 3 years out of a youth election team member, we're doing mighty well. Second, we need many youth to do this. E-team is over and above unit level work. Middle and HS students have other things competing for their time. If an E-team member can do 10 units in an election cycle, he's doing mighty fine. Third, the youth don't understand, as we do, the headaches and heartaches of "Let Every Vote...Count!" This is their introduction to that little conundrum of life. Fourth, even we adults don't done E-Team year to year. We need to be better at this. Fifth, we have a lodge (such as the one described a couple threads ago) where the Camp OA rep didn't follow procedures. The fix is a combination of training and care. The training is available, the care comes from an Arrowman's heart.

My issue is not the fact that YPT is easy to take. My issue is someone out in the real world caused Eagle Foot to post: " Our troop has been advised that one of our ASM's has not compleated "Youth Protection" we were advised that this is now mandatory and that he is NOT to attend any troop meetings, camping trips, or activities untill he compleates this." It could be the old saw: Show it to me in writing... to which the almost inevitable response will be "dabbidadabbida"... It could be the Chartered Partner has a more restrictive policy on YP training than BSA. That's OK. It could be someone has an animus against this particular ASM. This is a "path of least resistance" way to push him/her out. Problem is, we don't have enough facts to look beyond the basic of "YPT isn't difficult to get done anymore." I hope Eagle Foot gets back to us so we can help him a bit more. Sigh.

One thing my Council has done is mandate each District do a "training blitz" each Fall for the Cubbing program. This was proposed by the SE and mandated by the Executive Board. District Training Committees, from August to October, run weekly sessions of NLE and Tiger/Wolf-Bear/Webelo DL Position Specific, to support newly signed up DLs. It's one of the tools which has helped us turn our Cub attrition rates around.