John-in-KC

Sounds like a great research project for your PLC. Have them set up a wall map... then draw a 4 hour ring around it. (avg speed 50MPH=200 miles, avg spd 70MPH=280 miles). Next, find the Scout Councils that fall in your area. One way to do that is have the kids do googlemaps to find towns and Zip Codes from the post office, and plug them back into Scouting.org. Now, you have a big list of camps to evaluate and pare down to a smaller list. When you have a short list maybe the PLC can take a road trip. Have fun.

Some excellent photojournalism from Iowa, courtesy of the Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/06/mississippi_floodwaters_in_iow.html

Jeez, The concept is really quite simple: - Encourage SHORT TERM camping ... that means overnights and weekends. - Encourage LONG TERM camping ... Scout camp, backpacking trips, high adventure, jamboree. Scouts should do both!

To amplify on OGE and the Flood of 1993: I live on high ground about 2 1/2 miles from the Missouri River. I was here for the flood. My then-wife and I helped sandbag a towns' commercial district while the owners got their stuff out. 1993 was not historic, it was epic. Federal Flood Insurance requires building against the P=.01 probability event (what we call the "100 year flood"). I was told at the time our flood was P=.002, or a "500 year flood." I have less sympathy than I'd like for the folks of NO. The evacuation was botched. NO should have been a ghost town, period, when the storms hit. You can load people on boxcars (hoboes do it still) and move them up to Houston. You can use the schoolbusses to move people away. Instead, there were 1000s of people who chose to stay. We could have avoided some of the human cost of Katrina/Rita. It demanded moral courage on the part of the Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans to declare martial law and evacuate. Would the human suffering of lost houses still be there? Yes. We can replace goods. Life we cannot replace. My thoughts.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Bottom Line Up Front: Get in touch with your District Advancement Chair, your Council Special Needs Coordinator, and your Council Surgeon (doc who volunteers his medical professional skills to the SE and Executive Board). Of the 3, the District Advancement Chair will be the one to guide you through the wickets. Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088 has some of the governing procedures, as does Requirements #33215. The bar isn't low. The Council Advancement Committee, the Scout Executive, and the Council Executive Board will be involved in the decisionmaking. Pages 42 and 43 of ACP&P have guidance. KEY POINT: No matter the level of the EBOR (unit, District, Council), "a representative of the Counsil Advancement Committee must be a member of the EBOR"). The Scout's physician or surgeon, or an educational administrator (depending on the nature of the disability) will be a key player. What will be substitutable will be merit badges... tenure, leadership, Scout Spirit, and the Project cannot be amended. The procedure is online here: http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/eaglealt.aspx As you can see, we can point you to resources, but the call will be made locally to you. To specifically answer your question, 1. Is this done on a council, regional, or national level? COUNCIL. 2. Is there a list of diseases/disabilities that are covered by the extension? NO, case by case. 3. Does the unit leader have any input/approval/disapproval in the process? Some input only. Good hunting.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

That was two seconds on google: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vc.htm Now, do we need the R&R? I really don't think so, but I'd like to see a blog on the National website called: "Why we decided to..." Sometimes the decision makes more sense with the background.

Ahhh, starting to see the dawn... There are rules and regulations, Mr Meissler. They are basically corporate governance level stuff. There is policy. There is a lot of policy out there. - Uniform and Insignia Guide is policy. - Advancement Committee Policies and procedures is policy. - Certain elements of the Guide to Safe Scouting are policy. - BSA Requirements (year) #33215 is policy. There is program. There is a plethora of program materials. Many program materials, such as the Boy Scout Handbook, contain elements of policy as well (the rank requirements are policy). In your case, your unit bumped up against BSA policy. For whatever reason (and we've debated it until the horse's meat was off his dead carcass) the risk management folks in Irving decided Laser Tag is not to be done as a Scouting activity. Is there a penalty? No. Ask someone to show you the consequences. Now, if a patrol decides to go independently to Laser Tag, or the PLC decides to go to Laser Tag, then the SM should point out: - This is not a BSA approved youth activity. - You go outside of unit meeting times. - Do not think of wearing Scouting clothing. - If something happens, it's on you and your parents. (This last I would also send through adult channels to affected parents). - If someone chooses not to go, that's their or their parents choice. Don't try to use peer pressure to make them go. I suspect many will go. Young folk like laser tag, why else would they be playing it? A few will choose not to go. That needs to be OK too.

Michael, Since you are still a youth member, I will tell you many of the men and women who are Scoutmasters and Committeefolk understand youth are developing and finding their ways. We've seen youth who declared "I'm atheist" simply because it pushes a button with the adults around them, and they want to see how we react. We probe them at Boards of Review, and find they may well be confused about what they want to believe in fact! Other young people are starting to set their way in life. They may decide god does not exist. If they continue in Scouting or Venturing to Eagle/Silver, they will run into a big brick wall. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On the adult side, it's pretty simple. Notwithstanding our own debates here, when we decided to be leaders in Scouting, we adults committed to actively supporting religious faith in our young charges. Doesn't matter what we believe (there are a few limits to that), it matters that we believe. Belief is a condition of membership at the adult level. Does that make sense to you, young Sir? Have a great Independence Day.

I'm gonna say something here. I'm a Moderator at a forum in a different part of cyberspace. The person who accepts a tour as a Moderator gives of their own time... for no financial gain. The person who accepts a tour as a Moderator has to read everything on the Forum. He has to make a judgment call about does it meet the site owners standards, and he has to do that in about 20 seconds. Oh by the way, the Mod is also a member, and often wants to post in one or more areas. If you do not like the Moderation here, step up to the plate and ask Terry for a job! I promise you, the other Mods probably will appreciate some of "the heavy burden being lifted from their shoulders." (sound like a Scouting ceremony?) Are there specific tweaks I'd like to see? Yes, but I'll address them offlist. YIS.

Target about 15 years ago was 9th grade, for most Army operator and organizational maintenance technical manuals and all training circulars. Field manuals can be written up to postgraduate level (chaplain, legal, and medical). Most branch specific stuff is bachelor's degree level.

DON'T READ THE @#$%^)& slides or flip charts. Add value to the visual aids.

OGE, I disagree. The bar exam, the medical license exam, or the CPA exam, is an entry point for a professional practicioner. He or she then has ongoing continuing education, and is subject to professional scrutiny by peers. Further, docs, lawyers and accountants all have potential to take aspects of peoples lives into their hands. Our tour guide, otoh, is showing people the sights for anywhere from 2 hours to a week... and then they never see each other again. I do not know why this regulation exists, but I'm not sure it passes the "so-what" test...

??? Where else are tour guides specifically licensed as such ??? I'm not talking about business licenses ... but a license to conduct tours...

From the article cited above: "The new law makes it illegal to give a tour for compensation of the citys main tourist area without first submitting a written application, paying a fee, providing proof of insurance and passing a written examination in order to be granted a license to tour. The program will be administered and the test developed by an administrative agency to be named by the mayors office. No test has been made public." emphasis added This will be fun! I guess the question is how much of a burden does this impose, and what are the consequences to not pass the test?

Who do they guide for? The city? In that case, I'd be OK with them presenting a script. Accurate representation of information can be a condition of employment. OTOH, if they guide for Coach USA or Gray Line Tours, city be hanged, especially if the guides are paying to enter the turnstile as well.

Yep, lots of good advice here so far... Put all your Den Leaders and Committee Members through the various Cub Scout Fast Starts and the BSA Youth Protection training. You can do this from the My Scouting tab at www.scouting.org Have folks surf through the Cub Scout portion of the Scouting.org website. Lots of info there to be culled. Remember the key thing about 8-10 year olds: Keep It Simple, Make It Fun!

Processes and controls. At the end of the day, that's what we're debating. What were the front-end processes and controls on THIS ELSP (indeed all ELSPs) to ensure it's meaningful to the Scout, meaningful to the supported agency, and meets the standard people expect of an Eagle Scout? What are the back-end evaluation metrics to ensure the project aspect and the leadership aspect pass muster? Four discrete "someones" bought into this project on the front end: - A Scoutmaster - A Committee Member - A benefitted agency - A District Advancement Operations Committeemember This project made it through four distinct control points. Someone decided the work performed on the project passed muster. That' a fifth control point. Several "Someones", sitting an EBOR will decide if this Scout showed the leadership needed. We are our own gatekeepers. Did anyone look at this project early on and mentor the young man on "what right looks like?" (I can see two gatekeepers who should have). Did anyone have a quiet talk with Mom, or is she the kind of person in small-town America who can break a person with a snap of her fingers? Did anyone along the way perceive the project as not passing muster and so tell the Scout? If no, then shame on us Scouters. A Scouter is Brave. Sometimes he has to look Bill in the eye and say "This will not cut it." Now someone qualified to sit an Eagle Board of Review as a District Guest, or a District level EBOR, has to clean up the mess.

1) I can remember at 8 years old, and a Wolf, having a uniform inspection. Pretty good prizes for Den winner and Pack overall winner. 2) Uniform inspections should be fun things at this age. 3) There is a uniform inspection worksheet on the National website. Worth using: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34282.pdf

Gonzo, Thanks. PM or email me. Let me know what's in your life. John

My Membership cards says Heart of America Council #307.

E, You walked away from the District Committee. Hard to enforce standards upon the District Advancement Chairman other than the friendly cup of coffee and "what the heck were you thinking of?" There's an audit trail of project approvals. Someone signed off for the District Advancement Committee. He needs a friendly cup of coffee.

On the NESA website OGE mentioned, one version of the ELSP workbook is MS-word document compatible (.doc extension), another is rich text format (.rtf extension).

From what I've seen, the rules and regulations are pretty terse. About the only exception to that is our favorite discussion topic the DRP. For instance, in ACP&P #33088, the Rules and Regulations describe the rank system of Boy Scouting in 1 4-line paragraph. Learning which documents are program documents (Boy Scout handbook, MB pamphlets, PL handbook) and which are policy documents (Uniform Guide, ACP&P, Finance Guide, ad infinitum) is useful, but not essential. That's why we have District Operating Committee chairs, Council Executive Boards, and the professional service. Even then, there's stuff local councils choose to bypass. One of my favorites is the staff Class A uniform at a neighboring Council Scout Reservation. Boy Scout shorts, Venturing shirt, and custom epaulet tabs.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0702/p25s10-uspo.html 3 paragraphs from the article: The senator was careful to highlight key areas of difference between that initiative and his own proposal for a Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. "Make no mistake, as someone who used to teach constitutional law, I believe deeply in the separation of church and state, but I don't believe this partnership will endanger that idea," Obama said. He emphasized that those receiving funds could not proselytize the people they help nor could they discriminate in hiring practices on the basis of religion. Faith-based groups could only use federal dollars for secular programs. And he committed to ensure that taxpayer dollars would only go to "programs that actually work." The last time I checked, the teachers my parish hired were of our denomination. The volunteers who manned the food pantry were of our denomination. Only the County Council on Aging meal site, where the employees came from the County offices (for that matter so does the foodservice equipment and the meals) are non-discriminatory, because they are using our facility rent-free. To my way of thinking, Mr Obama said a sound bite that needs close interpretation. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal note: We play the hand dealt us. Folks here cannot know how badly I wish an available ticket was Rice-Powell or Powell-Rice.

There is now a thread on balancing history, tribal respect, and the ceremony in the Safeguarded Discussions. ICS.