Nessmuk

For brick and mortar breed filth and crime, With a pulse of evil that throbs and beats; And men are withered before their prime By the curse paved in with the lanes and streets. And lungs are poisoned and shoulders bowed, In the smothering reek of mill and mine; And death stalks in on the struggling crowd- But he shuns the shadow of oak and pine.

As usual several of you have twisted things around with text bites trying to make a case that does not exist.. My basic point is simple (many in the current generation of Scouters is softening the outdoor experience/method so much that it is highly questionable as an outdoor experience anymore) and if you don't agree, then fine.. I don't expect that you must agree. But if you do disagree, it would seem sensible to support your argument with a logical rationale and maybe some sort of underlying principles to which you subscribe in your position. I now have been unfairly accu

If I'm arrogant because I claim that it softens the outdoor experience too much to have power in camp, then so be it.. And to the comment about none of this having to do with Scouting.... The "outdoor method" is a major part of Scouting and is not the RV method. Uber Scouter - a compliment IMO. It's always cute how some folks (in this forum especially) just end up on the "change for the sake of change" / "not keeping up with the times" argument. Because they won't address the substance or principles of their view - usually because they have none. And as far as what people a

Shortridge - I don't have any experience with these guys, but I have been eyeing their stuff.. Lots of good reference info on their site too.. Somewhere I have a whole folder of linsk and catalogs on canvas tent mnfr's.. Can't find it now.. Will post when found.. Off the top of my head I know Kifaru is top notch gear -packs and tents - Search for their name. http://www.walltentshop.com/

How do you know when Boy Scout camp has become too soft ? SR540Beaver answers that.. " many camps now provide electrical service in the campsites. I've been to two camps that do, but they are in forested locations with high heat and humidity." This confirms my thoughts that maybe the 100th Anniversary is the right time for the BSA to split - one for the people who are here for the "real deal" and the rest can merge with the GSA.

I agree with Kudu that here is a strong "Business Manager" sense to the whole training program..Whereas older Scout training books and current NOLS or other similar references are more about Outdoor Leadership - which can apply to other than outdoor situations - where Business Management applies very little to what we want to do in Scouting. Even in my professional life, it is understood that much of what is pushed in management classes makes little sense in the "real world".

I understand your comments about heat in summer camp.. but canvas tent or otherwise..it's part of any real outdoor experience and I suspect it always will be. An important part of living outdoors begins with understanding and accepting that it's NOT indoors and therefore feels different. As a Scout and adult I have plenty of memories of the hot nights in summer camp..We rolled up the sides and front/back flaps.. As I got older (teen years) we figured out how to rig up fans made from large pieces of cardboard and pulled on a little rope hooked to the mechanism (pioneering!!) that sw

Newspapers vary in their reading level - some at 5th Grade (USA Today) and some at maybe 10th Grade (Wall Street Journal).. I would pick something in between (8th to 9th) for Leader Training - not too high for unskilled or blue collar and not too far down for college grads. There's always higher level (usu. older) materials for the more educated.. But you always need a basis that will catch most everyone. I wonder what level military manuals are written at.. That would be a good data point.

From another thread... I answered what I would do/am doing differently in Basic Adult Leader Training (based on my comments about my Wood Badge experience) I was primarily focusing on Non-Wood Badge training in my response. What would you all do?

What would I do differently..?? Well -- alot.. But first let me answer by saying that I HAVE DONE quite a bit differently as I have conducted most of the basic training programs in addition to Pow Wow - where I have great flexibility to build my session plans. When I first started helping out in training, the course leader said - "Here, cover this section." I added some of my own elements and ideas on the fly that very first time and the Trainer liked it..So I kept on building my own library and lesson plans to add to the official materials. 1) Kill the current training videos..

Thanks for commenting SR540Beaver.. On the tripping- I have a nylon (canvas version in the works) pyramid style from Cabelas -with guy lines and everyone in camp passers-by comment on how much they like the style. I show them the single pole in the center and they wonder why they mess with shockcorded fiberglass rods. The Cubs are tripping over the guy lines and I tell them it's my "Cub Scout Trap" and then I say "no running in camp" and "be observant" - and then I trip over my own guy line - LOL. Also I am dismayed at how I hear so many comments from Scouters about how hard i

OK Gunny, I'll agree with your conclusion. But my observations are from ten's of troops - many many troops - not including the ones I observed and was a member of as a Scout. Oh yeah Uncle Joe's (totally fictional) truck does not stay there.. He goes home after dropping off the watermelon.. Leaves the patrol alone.. You appear to have a lot of exceptions and reasons you can't do it - and so you just can't do it. I guess I am just so fortunate I can hike 5 miles from my small town and camp in the woods. Yeah I live in a Fred MacMurray movie and we don't allow no cussin or smokin

Great gift and story Moxieman.. By the way, went up to Maine (Down East) two summers ago and loved it..Fell in love with Moxie too. My kids still talk about it. Next trip is to Baxter St Park (I think).. Been watching for HD sewing machines on Ebay..There's a lot of them there. Mountain Man weekend is a big attractant for Scouts here (and no Mountains).. Which makes me wonder if the traditional skills are what they are attracted to - which leads to.. Well you know..more tradittional scouting.

Like I said the prob is with the training before WB

Don't get me wrong.. Woodbadge was not all bad. I just did not expect that they would not reinforce the Patrol Method and go into advanced Scouting topics. The leadership training was way overemphasized and people - no matter what walk of life - just don't need it presented the way I saw it prsented. You teach some basics of communication, organization, interpersonal / team dynamics and that's enough.. Get to the Scouting stuff. And we wathed a poor choice for a leadership movie and sang a really uninspiring song that I suppose is the sam everywhere. I think maybe my gripe is more