John-in-KC

If you think I'm a perfect role model or Adonis, wrong answer. I won't be there. I just had an insurance physical yesterday, we're talking about losing 100+ lbs in next couple years. If the rule is what it is, ok. I'm out of the pool. We do have an Oath and Law to uphold, even as adults. BTW, I agree about the smokers being restricted...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

If the DC/ADC issue is a challenge within your Troop and Crew, one thing your IH can say to the Council Scout Executiv is: "Mr/Ms X (District Commissioner) and Mr/Ms Y (ADC) are not welcome in my facility or at my unit functions. Please have the Council Commissioner call on me." Now, if there's a u/d contest between your bride, a UC, and the DC/ADC, maybe the right thing to do is have her dial back into a unit serving position, and return to Commissioner service after you DEROS.

I can live with an adult fitness requirement for the 2010 Jamboree. Is not "physically strong" part of the Oath?

A piece of paper signed by Mr Mazzuca We have to remember that this is only the very top folk in the food chain. The next couple of layers of org charts will help define how things will happen. I've been through corporate America re-orgs, as well as military ones. Some re-arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. Some respond to customer needs. Let's hope this is the latter.

Northbell, Uhhhhh.... NO! Allow me to quote from Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088, p25: "The Scoutmaster must be in charge of advancement in the troop. It is necessary that the Scoutmaster understand the purpose of the advancement program and the importance it has in the development of the Scouts in the troop. The troop's program must provide advancement opportunities. By participating in the troop program the Scout will meet requirements for rank advancement." Sidebar text box p 26: "The steps to follow in the merit badge program are outlined in the current Boy Scout Requirements. This book lists the requirements a scout meets to earn each of the the more than 100 merit badges that are available." From Requirements #33215 as posted on the Scouting.org website: http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx "Pick a Subject. Talk to your Scoutmaster about your interests. Read the requirements of the merit badges you think might interest you. Pick one to earn. Your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors. These counselors have special knowledge in their merit badge subjects and are interested in helping you. "Call the Counselor. Get a signed merit badge application from your Scoutmaster. Get in touch with the merit badge counselor and tell him or her that you want to earn the merit badge. The counselor may ask to meet you to explain what is expected of you and to start helping you meet the requirements. So as you can see, even delegating the responsibility to sign out a merit badge application is a dilution of the Scoutmaster's responsibility, let alone pushing the matter down to the SPL. As I said earlier, the MB program supports both the Advancement and Adult Association methods. We have tools to broaden the horizons of our youth beyond the leaders in our Troops. It's called District functions, such as Roundtable, Camporee, and Klondike, where Scouters have a chance to visit with each other and discover strengths and weaknesses.

Another advantage is the environment which promotes thespianism, advanced craftwork, and Indian Lore. Not too many units really encourage advanced beadwork; but superb OA costumes call for some really good crafting. The final in-Socuting advantage I see in the honor organizations is active mentorship. A Scoutmaster is typically working with 20-50 boys. Within my experience, the honor camping organizations, with stable adult support around them (be they advisers or leaders), can surge role models and mentors for young men to fall in on. If we had more of the older, long service Scoutmasters of the Fred MacMurray "Follow Me, Boys" model, maybe this advantage would nullify. As it is, we've got a lot of units out there with relatively new folks ... who take a couple years of experience after training to get from good to excellent. Out of Scouting, in my neck of the woods the honor organizations are one tremendous network. I've seen real jobs (IT, Engineering, Law, architecture) happen because the young college graduate and the hiring partner are both in the same honor organization. It's happened locally for both organizations.

jet526, You're the program officer of your unit, you can make decisions about who your youth will see. If the Counselors are out-of-troop, you as SM can inform them that they are no longer to counsel youth from your Troop. At the same time, call your District Advancement Chair. Make sure he knows there are Counselors operating "out of school." OTOH, if they're in-house, have a visit with your CC and COR. Keep them in the loop with a friendly cup of coffee. Then, call your District Advancement Chair and have the needed in-house Counselors who "don't get it" removed from the roster. When they agree to follow procedures, you can ask they they re-train and re-qualify to the District List!

If a complaint must be, you've hit the two correct people/agencies: Your Chartered Partner is the owner of record of your unit. The Transatlantic Council, in the person of your District Executive, is the Professional Staff giving support. I suspect, though, unless we're talking a Youth Protection issue, there is a better way to solve whatever this problem is. Have you talked to your Unit Commissioner and/or your District Commissioner? These are non-unit Scouting volunteers who are charged with supporting program in your local area. A friendly cup of coffee and a bratwurst/broetchen at the schnellimbiss sounds like a very good idea. Time to talk out the challenges at hand. The Edelweiss District of the Transatlantic Council covers from Giessn to Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Bad Aibling, and Graf. The webpage is http://www.tac-bsa.org/edelweiss/ If you are from Darmstadt to K-town to Basel, you're in the Rhingold District: http://www.tac-bsa.org/rhinegold/index.htm

Have your Advancement Coordinator read these web pages: http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx This is for they boy himself. http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors.aspx http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/Resources.aspx http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/Review.aspx These are for the adult. FScouter is right: The badge is earned the instant the Counselor signs off on it. It then becomes our responsibility as adults to close the loops: Getting the info into ScoutNet (either by an Advancement Report or by Internet Advancement), getting the badge and the "baseball card" recongition card, and awarding it at a COH. To the extent of "we don't know it's done until the youth turns it in", the Scout who doesn't turn a completed card in hasn't done his share of the work in closing the loop. The last time I checked, ACP&P #33088 does not require mind-melding with the Scout to draw information

Barry, The funny thing is, around here both programs run strong. I've spent my summer weekends volunteering at our Cub Family Resident Camp, I see a bunch of young men who wear both the claw lanyard of the Tribe and the Arrow lanyard of the Order. They get it. They've embraced concepts of selflessness, service, devotion to God, responsibility for those who are coming up the trail... Personally, I happen to like how the St Joe branch of the Tribe does some things. They do have more emphasis on youth. They have a stronger emphasis on the year-round aspect of the program. I like they make having earned Eagle a condition of advancement at the upper youth levels. I like that they emphasize making authentic regalia by the youth members. If the tool helps hone the teen who becomes a young adult to be a better man, then we should actively embrace it. To conclude, Jim Terry, the CFO of BSA and the Deputy Chief Scout Executive, who went to Iriving from our Heart of America Council, this summer brought Mr Mazzuca to the H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation. When Mr Williams was the Chief, Jim also brought him to Osceola. While I'll be at Philmont next week, I'll return the invite you gave me: If you're going to be up in Kansas City any time for any reason, PM me, and we can do spend time sharing this joy of Scouting

OGE, To me, the honor societies fundamental purpose is to reinforce specific ethical values ... while they're generally within the Scout Law, the emphasis puts some punch into them. Let's look at OA: The Brotherhood of Cheerful Service. The major ethic of the order is SERVICE. That's an important ethic imo. Too much of our world is based in business and profit, and too little is based in helping the community and others because it's important to do. The cheerful part of the ethic is that do not give our service begrudgingly, but rather give it willingly and understanding the reward goes to all, not to us. Finally, the brotherhood element to me reminds us that 1 can accomplish much, but groups working together accomplish more. A similar ethic is found in the key words of MOS. I will PM them to you, we do closely hold the ethic that the youth learn it by discovery. Above and beyond these, every young person gets a boost out of being recognized for the good things they've done and are expected to do. Too much of the Advancement Method, from what I've seen, is not about Recognition, it's about expectations.

You also have an illegal setup with two lodges in the same council. When are you going to fix that? I'll stack Tamegonit #147s program up to yours any day of the week: - 2 Spring Induction Weekends - 3 Boy Scout Camp session inductions - Fall Induction Weekend - Fall Fellowship - Vigil Banquet - Winter Banquet - Theodore Naish Workdays I don't know if our Lodge logs the service hours it renders to the Council on the GTFA website. If we did, it's be in the tens of thousands per year. In my District, our Chapter does an annual cookout to support District Roundtable and will provide the Flag Opening for the August Roundtable Re-union, in addition to its internal fun things it does as a Chapter.

A member has been to PTC, and received word that National Advancement Committee was preparing changes to the advancement plan. One change was to return Cooking MB to the Eagle Required List. It's not a done deal for unit serving Scouters and youth in the program until we see it in Requirements #33215. I'm going to PTC next week. Hopefully I can get an exact status from a National Executive Staffer, which I can post. If I can, I will.

Welcome to the Forums. Contact your District Executive. There is an International Relations Division at BSA National Council in Irving. The cash being given as a program materials donation should flow through to however Scouts Iraq is running. Another alternative is to find a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine in-country, who is involved in Scouting, and who is working with Scouts Iraq. It does happen. Then you can flow the money that way, and it can be spent locally, helping their economy as well as Scouting.

The CM should be a Ringmaster... Dens should be showing their stuff with ceremonies (flag, law, promise), songs, and skits! CM and his ACM get to manage awards... in my Pack, it was Tiger activity/Tiger Awards, then the same for Wolves, Bears, and Webelos. Sometime CM would mix up the order, but Tigers were usually first; many times even the adrenaline high wasn't enough to keep them going after 8PM. CC should introduce visitors. Business of the Pack should always be in the background... email, group collaboration website, committee meeting, letter to parents, anything but an *ANNOUNCEMENT* in front of the youth. Yes, I said the magic word... someone cue the song!

Welcome to the Forums. The first reason you sign the card is the SM should be the assigner of Counselors. Adult Association is one of the Methods reinforced in the Merit Badge program. Your working acquaintance with folks in your District is vital; it helps you match the right Counselor to a Scout. A second reason you sign the card is so you can keep tabs on a Scout. If Billy is asking "Mr Jackson, may I...?" but you don't see any cards returning, there's an opportunity for a Scoutmaster Conference on "sticking with things to completion." A third reason is to make sure your youth are Scouting safely. We want to avoid 1 on 1 contact (YP training), so we encourage Scouts to come to Counselors as buddies. Part of your signature is making sure you're providing a safe environment for your charges: http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx While camp may be a convenient place to work on an MB, you should never (imo) stifle a Scout who wants to work on a subject in-town. Part of his growth comes from experiencing difficulties; if he chose to do Nature in town when it really could have better resources to hand at Scout Camp, well, there's another lightbulb moment awaiting a SM conference Please, never hold a youth because the Troop is going to do a MB! That's a key symptom of a Merit Badge Mill. Allow the young man the freedom to explore on his own terms. We guide them so much in school, think about the joy of discovery on its own terms. These are my thoughts on this...

When I hear someone say "standard first aid", this is the course I think of: http://www.redcross.org/services/hss/courses/firstaid.html This course runs $50 to $60, based on the KC Chapter of the Red Cross' website.

I'm getting ready to leave for PTC. One of the things I'm going to get at Tooth of Time traders is the wall topo of Philmont (IIRC it's 1:50000 quad). There's a caution on it about not using it for navigation; instead use the 1:24,000 USGS specials. Funny. When I was backpacking as a youth, all USGS provided for us in certain sections of the Sierra Nevada was 1:63,500 quads (1 inch to 1 mile), and the military standard for ground tactical hi-res maps was 1:50,000 (that's paper era, not digital era). Ironic.

Bring trading patches.... including OA lodge as well as CSP. Since your boy is 12 now... if you've not been to "Scouting in the Church's Ministry", you'll want to think about that conference for 2010 or 2011. He'll be old enough to do the Mountain Trek (backpacking ~35 miles, every night in a program camp, and they backpack over Baldy... at least that's the route my son took).(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

content removed. J.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Watching my own son do his T-2-1 cooking, I came to a different conclusion: The inclusion of any cooking at Tenderfoot was a change. The 2d class requirement was made different: I had to do my cooking without utensils. First Class was about the same: Cook for a day. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'll have to recover my old MB pam and crosswalk then (1969-70) to now (2008) to see what differences are.

First off, I'm assuming what BW said is true. As a consequence: Either with 2009 Requirements or 2010 Requirements, Cooking MB will return to the Eagle Required List. This is for those, who like me, were either Scouts when Cooking had a silver border (think 1969 or so for me), or were Scouters before National took it off the list. My vision is we share experiences. My goal is we look at how we made sure the youth had opportunity to do the cooking needed. I remember a lot of cooking: Scout Camp as well as 3 summers backpacking. So, cooking was in a way like Camping MB: You assembled the experiences you had. For me, unit cooking is a way to lower the cost of camp, and to increase the quality of food delivered. Less staff to pay is the short version. Having the Cooking MB overcomes one of the really big objections to unit cooking: It's an elemental part of the program, again. What do you think? What do you see? How did you do it years ago? How can we adapt if this change is real?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

IF what BW says is true about Cooking MB going back on the Eagle list, AND I HOPE IT IS!!!, then patrol cooking at Scout Camp is going to become more popular again. It's not easy to cook six meals during the program year, unless the Scout does it one at a time over many weeks. Come to think of it... I'll spin off a thread:

We'll miss each other by a day

Lisa, What Barry said.