Gunny2862

Thanks for the input! The troop has several Instrumentalists (Several Electric guitarists , Cellist and I think a Violinist) but no one who feels comfortable unleashing a vocal - of just about anything except classic rock. Or if someone else is talking Yes Metallica, Ozzy, any not current band where the guitar was still out front - these kids actually listen to Tyrannosaurus Rex, one has an "Album" and Turntable. Well, I guess it sounds like if they aren''t naturally inclined to camp songs, patrol yells etc. I''ve just got to do it until it is emulated. Assuming I should be guiding them into it? And yes, competition should help. That is a great idea on the patrol flag; essentially a guidon(in terms I understand). We have only used them in the past at camp and to designate patrol areas on campouts. I bet that''s how they were intended to be used. I''ll take more input if you''ve got it.

Different perspective...I think that it also comes down to peer review. I can ask questions as a new guy to Scouting here without feeling like I''m revealing my lack of experience in Scouting and the supposition that I should know the "Scouting Common Sense"(SCS) answer to my Troop. They know I don''t know - at least the CC does, but they also know I''m trying hard to get up to speed. Reading the program materials - attending training is great but without having been a Scout and only having been a Scouter for six months before becoming the SM leaves me a huge experiential gap which I am attempting to fill partially by reading the real life questions and various answers in these forums. Where I can get some of the SCS perspective without having fallen afoul of it myself to learn. All together now - "The only stupid question is the one, fill in the blank..." No, not, "that Gunny asked.", but nice try. And the SCS answer isn''t always the same as the Common Sense answer.

Remember to add any uniformed adults in your count for those patches, and that it''s never a bad idea to have your anticipated recruiting supplies for the upcoming year available - boys don''t like coming to meetings looking different than everyone else. Hand new joins and transfers a registration form, a used shirt from the bank if you have one, the troop number and council patch on the first night - they''ll at least have the majority of the shirt portion of the uniform when they come back next meeting.

acco, My current adult patrol(not established but I am going to propose it to the ASM this Monday) tends to myself, a faithful ASM, and depending on the number of boys on an outing one or two "I can''t believe I got suckered into driving parents" who rotate through. Yes I would love to do an adult patrol, the Troop has never had one before. (Deleted rant).... a Scout is courteous. I am also aware that there are those who are vehemently against Scouter patrols but I''m not sure how boys see a "functioning" patrol when there has never really been a Scout patrol like that in their Scouting lifetime(I feel the rant coming out)(stop it, slap SM''s hand)(redirect) But given that you are hinting at one answer, did they see the Scouter patrol and pick it up or did your kids just come by it naturally?

Thank you all. And the reason ones asks a question like that is from ignorance. Feedback, as John says, is a gift... Thanks again.

The Songs, the Skits, actually doing the Patrol Yells? I could swear(under my breath)(but haven''t), the same kids who know all of the lyrics to, get this, Ozzy Osbourne and Metallica songs and sing them all the way from the meeting point to the point where you start walking again - WILL NOT do their Patrol yell unless under duress. They have no idea that the idea of the skits and songs is to provide a safe place to make fun of yourself. And that it is fun! Partially because everyone gets their turn in the barrel. Yes, they have been exposed to the material, songs, skits etc. So, two part question folks. Did your kids come that way? and/or, How did you get them to participate, to buy in?

Me likey Buttons. My Scouts are too "Kuuul", pronounced Kewl, for Buttons - man are they missing out.

In the question above, I wonder, do all clock items or number of campouts in that First Class rank reset to zero on his rejoin date? So he can show his progress(Scout Spirit etc. - or is that one granted by the coming back) towards the next one?(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

I second John''s comment. It isn''t whining when you express concerns or blow off steam or even whine up the "Chain of Command". It''s "Scoutmaster''s decompression time". Just never ever blow steam or whine down the chain.

I don''t mind the nickel an dime training costs, they are kind of expected. And I don''t know of a requirement to attend WB but if the leader wants to go and asks for a partial payment of the cost of any course, I would think the troop should seriously consider paying a portion if not for the whole thing - if they think it is worthwhile. Especially if they will get a better or revitalized leader out of it. This year I''ve already paid out(or in the interests of full disclosure, had a portion off-set by my employer) >350 dollars in training costs, had numerous free training opportunities from the council(YEA!) with two upcoming courses that will add another $42.50 to my total. Only ONE of which is good for more than two years. Still waiting for Council to offer IOLS. When I''m going to go to WB I will probably ask the CC if the troop wants to help defray at least 1/2 of that particular cost. I may ask for help with the ARC WFR cert also +/- $150, but will try to schedule it so that it does the most coverage of HA outings before it needs to be re-certified. Our ARC gives NO break on the cost of any training. Of course, I''ll also sell some popcorn....(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Typical of PC buzzwords. Let the wrong spin get out and no one wants to hear the facts. Is it still possible, and do you want, to pull them back? I would want to send a letter to the parents of the boys who left,I''m guessing they weren''t at the meeting. And explain exactly what went on, How and where, when and by whom and why the duty roster is posted and that everyone had a slot in the rotation. They did didn''t they? The purpose of the letter isn''t just to pull them back but to show the parents that the "hazing" charge was unfounded and should be used as a reason for their child to have left Scouting. If they don''t want to share the work that is one thing - if they want to make false attributions that is another. Scouting isn''t for everyone but they should leave for the reason they are leaving and not try to lay it off on hazing in Scouting, something I haven''t seen yet and hope never to see.

Aquila, don''t forget that you may, for an activity where you can''t get help from your own troop, try: Asking neighboring troops if they would help or like to combine on the trip. If you want to let us know where you are and when you are planning to go - one of us might be able to pony up for you - it might cost you letting us bringing along a couple of our boys but... Depending on the location of the trailhead and the trail in question I would also do a tour permit. The fact that you are meeting there and not driving is a consideration but I would rather file one for a hike due to the number of possible "freak" things that could go wrong. I would think the MB counselor and/or the SM or any ASM or any YPT''d parent could provide the two deep. I would definitely want at least two-deep for this, and for most things.

I know its not the same thing..., but I had a mom this week approach me about moving the meeting back 1/2 an hour(for the next 8 weeks) so junior could attend a swimming activity and not miss Scouting. I had another parent approach me about moving to a different night. Personally I could go with either request but I don''t think temporary moves for one boy is a good idea ever. And Every parent would like a "perfect" fit to their schedule. My response to both parents was lets propose it to the SPL and see what the PLC comes up with - and then we''ll see if we need an okay from the Troop Committee. And yes, if it doesn''t fit your schedule or you can''t make it fit then how do they expect you to lead it? And when can they start! Hang in there Annie!

Carry on, at the end of the day you can really only take care of your own. Get your boys their AoL. It''s great when you can fix the greater whole, but it is amazing that when you were fighting the fight on your own no one saw the light. And now that the other Asst. CM has become CC he wants the help. Can you at least point him in the direction the forum is indicating about getting help from the Unit Commissioner and possibly the Base Youth activities folks. Believe me I get the rank implications but how does this guy impact you? And how does his concept of all e-mails will go through him apply? Unless you are using a .mil server it would be an unlawful order in the military and if you are a civilian or civilian employee on base he would have no standing to make such a decree.

I remember getting ready for work, eating breakfast watching the coverage about the first plane and trying to think through what horrible coincidence could have intersected a large plane with the first tower - and then the other plane struck. I called my reserve unit and and told the duty to put me on the short call list - rechecked my GO bag - saw the look on my wifes face and we both went on to our jobs. I remember being at School dealing with students who were wondering if there would be more attacks, if the draft was starting tomorrow and whether this would have a personal impact on them. I never went to any part of the actions that have followed those attacks but have trained and certified many reservists who went off to deal with those who attacked us that day. My prayers go to them, those who are still there, and the families who are left behind supporting them. May we finish well...

Thanks le Voyageur for your service and your comments. However to update the saga - our CC the troop founder has stepped down, the SM stepped up and I have a new billet, can you guess who''s wearing the hat now? We haven''t done a formal ceremony but the former CC kind of sprang it on us. We are already doing the new jobs and wearing the new patches but will do a investiture for me and the new CC and a thank you for the outgoing SM at the next CoH. The troop founder has unfortunately, strongly, indicated that he will not have a part in a thank you to him for his time with the troop. Thinks his Scouting awards are enough. BTW, I am Retired Reserve so no check until 65, still working 40-50hrs and working on my B.S. in addition to the one hour a week...

One that has also worked is to get the local High School Cheerleaders, Girls Soccer etc. and have them work the advertising on the street and the Boys do the actual carwash, split the profits and you both probably made more money than either of you would alone. Not sure why this works....

If you are familiar with any military folk the Field uniform shirt you see 99% of the time on scouts is similiar to the military issue "Dress" shirt. Those who have military career aspirations, or just like to look good, soon buy "Creighton"s" or a similar manufacturers shirt - they are of a heavier material that resists wrinkling a lot more than the cotton shirts and hold a crease a lot better also. As far as trousers go I am using the Switchbacks exclusively. If you have found some you can afford then I would buy them, but the "standard" Field shirt is working for me for now.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

ffemt92, hi Rob thanks for joining in! And for the information offer!

Standerson, Using the CC and the Committee in their proper way is no different than using the Command CPO and the Chain of command to rectify an improper use of authority on ship. It is not backdooring to use your Scouting chain of command. If the CC is now seeing the light -buy him a cup of coffee, get a plan, go to the committee and take this Cubmaster in hand, or get him out of there. Or decide that you can live with it until cross over and rest assured that he will stay where he runs things by intimidation or will follow you as a compassionate and therefore easy mark to get his foothold in the next organization. Domineering martinets will run over everyone until they get taken down, and the only way is to do it legitamately is through the COR with the Committee seeing the same picture as you. Good luck!! Keep us informed. Fair winds and following seas.

Thanks for the input!!! We are going to do a "system reset" on paper - aimed at being 99% or better current on all data and then go to Troopmaster after our annual Fundraiser. It looks like TM is the Handsdown choice, unless someone out there is holding back their wonderful experience with something else!

Not only you taking the online Troop Committee Challenge but getting everyone on the committee the complement of training for their positions. For Committee members I think it its just New Leader Essentials wtih Youth protection training(anyone who has been to the course and has the training materials, availible from your Scout store can run the course) and Troop Committee challenge - you can also do this one online but doing it together might build some team building/ group vision into your committee. This will also help you to have more of your "Trained" leaders for rechartering. You can also get material regarding each individual position that gives the BSA way each job should be done. And build common expectations by talking through each job with the Committee member that holds it. Remember you aren''t supposed to DO it all just to ensure it all gets DONE. Take care of the boys by taking care of your Scoutmaster and his ASM''s too.

I don''t know where you want to stop but if you want to do future planning for an outing at the same time, check out the KATY trail. It runs from Clinton, MO on the western side fo the state all the way up into the eastern area - LOADS of possible campsites. I haven''t done the Katy myself and so can''t give a direct endorsement for a specificcampground up there. If you can go a little bit out of your way, look up Ha Ha Tonka State park and see if you would like to check it out. There is a burned out stone castle, Large spring, collapsed cave that left a natural bridge where a center span didn''t fall. Our Scouts loved that trip.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

I simply couldn't do the Smithsonian in less than two days... The memorials have their own mystic(sp?) and give some perspective the next time the boys see the Mall and 1,000,000? people on it on TV. The Promise Keepers thing at the mall several years ago ACTUALLY filled that whole area and was using overflow on the other side of the Washington Memorial. That was a lot of people! Must see the Silent Drill Team at the Marine Barracks if possible... OohRah! Prior coordination with the Base Liason Officer, could pay off big at Andrews. A walkthrough of a C-5 Galaxy is a near once in a lifetime for most people - those things are impressively huge.

ZACKLY! Good luck, stay sane. Don't let them get to you!