Gunny2862

GaHillBilly, PM out!

Adam Sandler, the Waterboy, Mothers voice - "StitchMagic is the Debbil"(Devil) Used it once, never again.

Sorry just feel compelled... re: ""No military or hunting." Cammies are military and they are hunting related." and "Either way, cammies are a no no." So when Scouts go into the woods they need to wear solid Blaze orange(oops, sorry hunting related), or Hot pink, Insane shades of red, maybe Canary Yellow to catch everyones eye and detract from the nature experience for anyone they meet? Because surely you aren't saying that the Field shirt is in reality a Field shirt? Chortle. Although I'm still liking the switchbacks for trails that aren't "raw". I thought part of LNT was also teaching the wearing of clothing that "blended in" so as to disrupt the natural movements of wilderness animals as little as possible and not to detract from the "nature experience" for our fellow travelers. I would "qualified" "never"(never is a big word, as I keep telling my son) wear camouflage to a Troop meeting, Service event, Flag Ceremony; especially not with parts of the BSA uniform. However, If we are in the Woods or doing manual labor, I am also not likely to avoid subdued colors and even patterned clothing. And if I happen to be going thru an extremely brushy, thorny area. Well, my excess military uniforms that I PAID for(in more ways then just cash) just may be at risk of dying a useful death. And don't even consider saying that B-P wouldn't say the same. Look at his original uniform in it's context. And let's examine the Movement of Scouting as long as we are there. What kind of Scouting do you think B-P was proposing - why the wood craft and memory games, why map reading and making, why being observant and physically fit? I'm getting really tired of this no military aspects in Scouting garbage. Not that we are training little soldiers - we are not. We are teaching character by inculcating them a little bit at a time thru the Aims and Methods of Scouting, to include uniforming. I get it. But the anti-military theme is getting old. Rant ends. Thanks.

JeffD, IMHO, the 10 or 12 inch is the way to go for the house. Buy the smaller one if you want to cook for 2 or 3-4 person adult patrol and if you might want to pack it along on an overnighter. Reasoning, 1)Most recipes are set for the larger oven. After you try them full size then cut the recipe down for the smaller oven. 2) I always make extra for additional meals at home. 3)Ability to amaze your friends with what you made at tailgates, cookouts, reunions - that they didn't think could be made without a full size oven.

More great ideas and lines of thought I hadn't traveled down! Scouters are awesome! Anyone else?

Ah, but the Wide 2 1/2 inch web (airborne or now USMC martial arts) belt (not ALICE)is so much lighter than the Sam Browne leather and more comfortable in my opinion. The ALICE belt is one thing I'm glad I don't have to use anymore. Although I can see it in Gold Wingers application. I'm using the butt pack that came as part of my pack for that - multi use, same weight. Lighter than the ALICE set up and OMG not military equipment.

Gold Winger, Beavah has nailed it again. My Troop has issues, heck, I have issues, we're working on them. Part of fixing some of them might call for seeking out the help of a UC. But using Beavah's analogy. I'm unplugging the toilet, repairing/replacing the showers and sinks, and trading the fuse box for a breaker box and upgrading the wiring before I call in outside help for the things I don't know. (Which shouldn't be confused with whining that I need outside help). If I call looking for help with the flooring and you cruise in and start trashing the house about how it's dusty and there are still spider webs. Well, you would probably be seen as someone who may clearly see those things but can't see what the house needs most and where I can spend my (time)budget for the most bang. And will be ignored until I reach the point you have identified as your area of expertise - critical looks at the details. Like Beavah says, walk around check out the house look at the possibilities. find out what my (time)budget allows for. Find out what the units vision is. If they don't have one maybe see if you can help develop that once you know what and WHOM you are dealing with. But if the unit leaders don't know you, you may be heard but probably won't be listened to. Become one of us, rather than "the expert" - you know the definition of an expert right? The guy from out of town who just left making more in two weeks than you did this quarter to tell you how much better you could be doing - but won't be joining in the work. Even contractors budget each projects time to fit it in, in the most efficient manner. Dust and Spider webs are definitely after the floor is in, but usually before the finish is put on. Not that GSS issues are Dust and Spider webs but then have you shaken any of those leaders hands yet? Had a cup of coffee or a soda? Who are you to them? WHY should they listen to you?

As long as you mention it, this week has the 1st of November in it and I don't have any leaves to rake! In Austin Powers Goldmember voice, "Isn't that weird?"

Ah, the good old days. Trade a friendly nosebleed or two over a couple of issues and you had a friend for life. (I don't recommend this today) I also encourage the swimsuit idea, it gets the shy scout to shower especially if everyone else does it too.

Well, we're going Backpack camping this weekend. Taking some extra gear along in the trailer. Highs mid 50's, lows possibly, but not likely, breaking down into the upper 20's (Thus the extra gear)(Won't ever be more than 4 miles (Straight line)from the trailer) I am nearly certain that I will see jeans, Cotton shirts and other hideously evil things for cold weather on this trip. To include a lack of layering. Even though we've had a couple of discussions on the topic. While preventing hypothermia(Thus the extra gear, again), a little suffering will go along ways towards reinforcing our classes next month on the topic. I'm also planning a little practical application discussion at different parts of the day as we go thru the different layering conditions on this trip. Sometimes feeling it :)teaches better than just the classroom instruction. And makes it interesting when you hit them with it again in the classroom.

Not a Senior Scouter and less experience than you, but welcome!!(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Thank you all! I really am seeking information and am not defensive about this topic.(Nothing to be defensive about yet.) mtm25653, I don't expect to get boys from any specific Den but do expect that when a Den is associated with a "feeder" Troop that they will coordinate with that Troop for their Den Chiefs if Crossing over to our Troop is really just not a consideration/possibility. And that such information would be communicated when the discussions about them wanting a Den Chief and our possibly sending them one are in-process.(This was a part of the "used" scenario mentioned before.) Lisabob, Great, excellent, wonderful, and usable post! Thank you! I agree fully about the lack of communication/ coordination between the BS and CS worlds. It is one thing I am trying to work on in my part of the process. However I run into the "What exactly is your agenda?" filter and I try to clearly communicate that while we do want to help we also need to further our recruiting efforts - not take positions that will dilute our recruiting while weakening a "feeder" association between an existing Pack/Troop, and disappoint our Scouts who want to do this in part for the recruiting effect as well as the other benefits of helping others. gwd-scouter, thanks for the affirmation that I should take this as a Service and not focus on the recruiting side of the equation. I'll take that one to the Scouts. Anyone else want to chime in?

I would be in favor of a sewing merit badge. I don't' like the Tailoring reframing of it unless they will be required to make a complete and well fitting Suit, with lining. That's just more catering to the PC set and cheapens the Tailoring name - a good tailor is well worth their cost and hard to find, the rest who say they are Tailors but aren't are just weakening the branding of the word. There is a world of fun things to make, cheaper than you can buy them. Especially some of the ultralight gear for hiking. Have to say a lighter pack makes for a better hike. So does a lighter tent, and a lighter sleeping bag. Plus, field repairs CAN be of critical importance and can save a trip from being a near disaster. In the interest of full disclosure, a dot of fabric glue helps hold the badge in place so it stays correctly oriented while I sew it on. Otherwise its just as likely to wind up slightly off kilter, like its wearer.

I want to support some local Dens and Packs with Den Chiefs and have Scouts who are asking to do so. But, the Scouts do not have a tradition of doing so (Our only known den Chief was the CM's older son while his younger brothers were Cub Scouting) and my local more experienced adults have made mention of having been "used" by Dens and Packs before. I don't want the Scouts to be disappointed when they go to the training, do the work and don't see any crossovers to our troop(part of THEIR goal for doing it). Other than just sowing seed and hoping for but not expecting a return should I approach this? Does traditional association with or without support from the old Troop trump new associations? What do Dens and Packs REALLY, (A)expect (B)want and © get, from Troops and from Den Chiefs that expect the boys in those Dens and Packs to cross over to them? Now that is a multi-part question!

Welcome, grab a cup of coffee and join us!

So GaHillBilly, How was the weekend and did it clarify any thoughts you were having? And yes, that little water would be a serious issue in my book. Hopefully you drank more than that?

Ethically, you break the troop and fix all of the erroneous records, revoke ranks and Eagles. Will you receive death threats if you pursue this track, possibly. Would any of us actually say this this is the track you should take, Well I won't. Beside you probably don't have any viable records to prove the accusations with. The practical track is to fix things from now forward, I would include to the suggestions given above a heart to heart orientation with the troop about how advancement should work(with appropriate BSA citation) and how it's going to work in the future so the boys aren't surprised by any "new" hoops they haven't had to jump thru before. The same presentation should be given to the committee and parents as an education and training seminar rather than a you've been doing it wrong presentation. Use your judgment about whether it is a good idea to go ahead and out the outgoing SM regarding his malfeasance of the process by revisiting his last promotions/Merit badges. I'd probably not do that - no win for anyone. I would not feel good about it but would let this go as an in-process event that was on his watch - however I would also have the outgoing SM either enter it (if he thinks they really earned it)or fix it properly himself. He saves face and you save your self respect knowing that it will be done correctly during your tenure.

I wouldn't even be looking for outings where you are. What is your regular program like? If one of ours can't get his outings on our regularly scheduled and taken monthly campouts and up to three times a month(usually at least one a month) doing flag ceremonies and/or service projects and helping prospective Eagles on their projects(probably every quarter or six months right now) as a troop activity then he just isn't attending enough.

CC took the some of the boys out selling popcorn. I went to University of Scouting. A lot of good info especially on lightweight backpacking (less than 8% of bodyweight w/o consumables).

GW, I agree with your body position interpretation of signs up. And any Signs up yells are not given by the originator but if done at all are by the Scouts to get the attention of anyone who won't /hasn't realized that everyone else has gotten quiet. Kudu, is your bolded text in the first paragraph copyrighted or anything?

I don't know about the regulations/guidelines from BSA but I'd want more sleep on a HA outing, i.e. Rock Climbing, Whitewater activity, than I'd want on an active outing, i.e. Canoing flat water, Light Hiking, or than I'd need to stroll through the Established National park trail head with a virtually paved pathway on a relatively short nature walk. What I'm saying is figure out what your Scouts need then try for a half hour or hour more than that. For general sleep developing youth, I'm told, need about 9 hours regularly. Shorting them on an outing isn't ideal but should be more a safety concern than a developmental one for our weekend purposes. For me I know we are okay if they are still running around the parking lot waiting for Mom and Dad to pick them up after the end of the weekends activities.

John, I as usual, agree. OGE, you mean assess the Scouts as individuals? Heresy. But I like it.

Barry, I'm sorry I probably could have been more clear there. I was really addressing the issue of the Scout not knowing or understanding the Eagle requirements rather than guiding/pushing him along the path. Believe it or not some EAGLE Hovering parents do so with NO understanding of what their son must do to get there (except that it's my fault if it doesn't happen )- and some of the boys who do care on their own don't "get" the advancement system past 1st class.

Calico, nice use of your method! :) However, my question to you is how would a large jamboree crowd know what the stick was unless everyone used it? What about sticks of different designs - does this stick mean anything where that one is just an affectation of that leader? Personally I love some kind of swagger stick to avoid bad public speaking hand positions. Finally how is your method different when you clearly set goals and expectations and teach what is happening when "this"symbol is held up or shown? This is why I prefer the Scout sign, it is ubiquitous and is with you wherever you happen to be. All (or some percentage greater then 95% of)Scouts already have one. And it may not be obeyed by all but it is generally recognized for its meaning by all.

I understand about sport conflicts, and frankly I expect Coaches to understand that they don't want one-dimensional players either. The key for me is to communicate early and often with the coach and let him know that I won't take advantage of him and his time. Nor do I want to be taken advantage of by attempting to deliver a program to a group of boys who don't regularly show up. So, If my boy needs to leave practice an hour early on one friday during the season to make the departure time for a long trip, I let the coach know at least a week in advance. And then he still goes to an hour of the two hour practice if I don't need to pull him for the whole thing. Conversely, if a Scout isn't going to make a trip on Friday then I don't expect a maybe or a yes on Monday but that they say no they aren't going on this trip - and if possible I would like to hear if it is a problem with Scouting or is it that the Debate tournament fell afoul of our schedule. As far as weekly goes I have the same kinds of expectations - if you are a wrestler(or whatever) and wrestling(or whatever) season is coming up then that is a bad time for you to run for SPL - and you will be removed for failure to do the job. Just like the coach would pull my son off of First string if he missed X number of practices or wasn't doing the job - that's the expectation of being on the team; that you get it done. I could probably even see letting an SPL through his period of responsibility IF, I say again, IF he could manage to set the troop/patrol meetings agendas without being there, Give his ASPL all of his input on upcoming issues, and then actually LEAD on campouts while only having attended a lets say 50% of the weekly meetings. After all it's only fair, if an SPL who couldn't do as well but attended all of the meetings was signed off on.