Gunny2862

elizdaddio, as you can see from the above comments we really want to help you but we need some clarification about the situation. Does the current Scoutmaster crew: a)have what it takes? b) still want to do the right thing? or c)just want to hold on to their positions? Are the boys misguided and think this is how it should be? Do they as a whole want something more but are living in an adult run Souting world? Really won't let parents come along on campouts - at all? Danger sign to me. Is the leadership in question just the Scoutmasters or the Committee also or does it also run up into the District or Council levels where you are? The suggestions given by the other posters are good but we can all give better if you can shoot out a few details. Good luck and Good Scouting!

Okay, I understand that there is some kind of mystery that OA wants to retain. But what is/are the way/s that OA supports Scout retention and why is it beneficial to Scouting? If your answer violates information that you don't want out for the Scouts on the board to read feel free to PM the info instead. Soon to be Scoutmaster Gunny2862 - although the screen name won't change. Side question, is there any difference to the Tribe of the Lone Bear? Can one support and or belong to both OA and Lone Bear? If scheduling conflicts arose between those groups which one would you lean towards?

I love the way the Scouts were always there to support their, occasionally wayward, Scoutmaster.

I would like a little clarification of the question. Are you being asked to quick, in a hurry, put together a Scouting Funeral for this young scout? Or are you doing future planning for yours? If the first then I might suggest calling up your Local Council and if they don't have anything, if not, then ask the closest Guard or Reserve unit or VFW Hall and asking for a timeline of events and guidelines that they use on burial details as you should be able to quickly adapt their theme to a Scouting theme. If the latter, then I'm certain that you can produce something that would be appropriate. In either case - I don't see any conflict with wearing the uniform to the funeral, serving in uniform in the funeral, or in being buried in one. Is there a relevant prohibition in any of the guides?

In addition to the previously mentioned books may I add: Be Expert with Map & Compass by Bjorn Kjellstrom, a classic that will go out of date when compasses are no longer available. Basic Rockcraft by Royal Robbins, not instruction but an excellent primer to better utilize instruction when it is obtained.

I expect a parent to step up, I did. If they don't, get in touch with some of the Commissioners in the area and see if there is a parent in another pack who is looking for a place to assume some leadership. Or if there is someone who followed their son up into Boy Scouts who wants to drop back down, hopefully this doesn't put the Boy Scout program in a bind, or, maybe you can find someone who wants to work with the older boys for them.

Well, Beaver was right, that is where the question came from and I just thought I'd formalize it into an actual question and see what response I got. As far as testing goes, it seems to me that SM's and ASM's and any other parent who chooses to join in get physically tested every time they take the boys into the woods. I guess it is then up tho the adult to determine whether or not they still have the skills. Or if they need to recruit their replacement before they go into the back room on the Committee or work as a Commissioner. Psychological testing - you have to be crazy to volunteer to do this - you'll wash out everyone! I do think that we should be fit at some level, and being demonstrably able to keep up on hikes and swim events is probably a reasonable demonstration of that fitness. As well as the ability to obtain that adventure or Philmont physical. Anyone else want to chime in?

Andrew "Dice" Clay chimes in...I'm just glad the baggy pants crowd (or Ed) isn't going commando. Ohhhh.

Okay, Much conversation about the BSA Handbook p57-58 Tenderfoot Physical Fitness improvement tests has led to the question of adult leaders meeting the same requirements every year, so... Physical Fitness is absolutely a requirement for adults carrying out the program. Does meeting the same requirement mean that every year in Scouting the Adult would have to show improvement over the previous year(not even the Corps asks for that) or over a specific 30 day period? Or would an adult leader just need to meet a minimum acceptable standard to continue to serve actively (as SM or ASM). If unable to do so are the adults drummed out or might they be able to stay on in committee functions or doing Commissioner duties? Or should those adults have a minimum standard to meet also? I can still pass a USMC PFT - minimums given here- http://scetc.tecom.usmc.mil/SecurityAssistance/general/pft.asp ; age adjustments give more time on the run. Is that enough as a minimum standard or is it to much? Or do we require an additional swim test(1/2 mile, 1/4 mile?) and Load carrying event (five mile hike with 30% of bodyweight?)? And who is going to administer this?

Until late in the story when it was identified as a bay tree, I was concerned about the pot plant. Why if someone else's food is to be kosher/halal/vegetarian does mine have to be? How does my food affect the physical or spiritual qualities of theirs? Not griping, actually asking the question.

Hear, Hear!

I checked out a copy from my county library. Lots of libraries also have (ILL) Inter-Library Loan systems where you can search their holdings and have it sent to a location near you even if it's physically in another county. What a great movie - my son is campaigning for a movie weekend featuring this one. Any other great titles out there?

I've never been lost, off the map a few times - 7P's would have fixed that, but never lost. But yes, the small - always on your person day kit and the pack carried hit-the -fan kit are great and longstanding ideas. Just because you know where the pick up point is doesn't mean your transport will find it when they are supposed to, or at all.

High school to college is a steep climb. Shoot, around here being a High School senior doesn't guarantee a slot on the Varsity BENCH!

Gee, I thought we wanted them (in general) to be able to carry knives, but like many other things to be responsible with them also. However, I would think that the Scout awards/recognitions/certifications (any) should be presented by the troop, not by the camp. IMHO Scouter certifications could go either way.

Swim Safely buoys to define ability zones?

Okay packsaddle, point taken. That and two quid should get me a pint but it doesn't answer the question poised previously. After all the 1/4 mile run segment doesn't say if you time it in hours, minutes, or minutes and seconds or just seconds(which should be easy to improve on ) and who says I have any common sense anyway?

Back to uniform costs... When I went to boot camp a portion of my pay during basic training was withheld to pay for my initial issue.(Free issue, it didn't come out of my wallet because it never went into it!) Each following year my uniform allowance would cover two complete(maybe another partial depending on prices and when we are talking about) utility uniform with its' required accessories, less if you bought boots. The allowance never covered what I actually needed. There was not a program, that we could ever use, to exchange worn out uniforms for new, unless you were deployed with a rather large logistics support package - which usually meant that they sent a cash sales annex and you were again stuck paying for them out of pocket. Now the Reserves could exchange, but the item had to be trashed - you couldn't have been seen wearing the thing prior to it being gradually worn to that point. Frankly I'd love to wear a tan Creighton as my uniform shirt WITH or without military creases(I still have some in my "Memories" box)- or one of the many police uniform Short Sleeve shirts, . Much better quality and priced the same or less.

Okay, I am confused. Straighten me out, please. Just exactly where does it say that there has to be improvement in each area? And there's no metric that says it has to be whole number changes. If there isn't, does that mean the 1/4 mile can be interpreted to mean a whole minute faster? Because over a 1/4 mile, if the Scout ran, that is a big(small) number to chase. I'm not saying there shouldn't be improvement in each area - especially if the Scout hasn't been active previously, just that I'm not reading a REQUIREMENT for improvement in EACH area. Is it somewhere else, other than pp57-58 of the 11th edition Handbook? Kittle, did your situation ever get resolved?

John, I wholeheartedly agree - money for college, or scholarships shouldn't be entering into the equation. But unfortunately the planning has to start early to work and we are an instant gratification society. We, knowing it wasn't the best vehicle - but one we would do - bought into a pre-paid college plan and had it paid off before the child was 5. We are leveraging his own goal to attend Annapolis into grade pressure(academics plays a role in scholarships too, if Annapolis doesn't work out) and the outside activities will work themselves out if we can just keep him from burning himself out. Scouting, Orchestra, Wrestling and Football already has the kid working year round and he's only a seventh grader. And for CA_Scouter, I don't hear anyone griping about school(academics) itself, just the interesting fact that anytime school is in session(or in my case the two weeks prior to school starting) the educators think they can demand the childs presence in or OUT of school hours(for what was an extra-curricular activity when I was in school) or hold a grade against them.

This is the first year that my university/ work calendar has been coincident with my son's public school calendar. I certainly hope it stays that way(knocking the side of my head in lieu of any wood around) but we are already in the throes of knocking up against sports schedules. 15 mandatory practices before you can play - conflicting two weeks prior to school with Scouting, so miss two meetings and a camp out (to miss three practices) or sit out two of seven games - crazy. Especially since my son was one of five who went to a five day, 3 hour a day, minicamp for skills positions run by the same coaching staff. I'll be speaking to the coach and seeing if an accommodation can be made considering that when school starts the conflict goes away. And that's just one kid's, one sport, conflict. For my opinion on homework and standardized testing, I generally agree with the below listed book. Some things do need practice but even in math and music there is a difference between practice and just grinding monotony. Author Kohn, Alfie. Title The homework myth : why our kids get too much of a bad thing / Alfie Kohn. Publisher: Cambridge, MA : Da Capo Life Long, 2006. Edition: 1st Da Capo Press ed.

I's encourage making sure that my CO knew what was going on financially with a monthly report, the same report going to the committee, and a copy available for any parent that asks. But that is an excellent idea ensuring that the parents who do ask get the whole story about rechartering fees, awards costs, any special activities, camp fees, etc. Any organization that is accountable to those who donate funds is being foolish (IMHO) if they do not use a two person signature(treasurer and one other or any two others but the treasurer holds the check book) or at least one check holder who can't sign but accounts for the amounts written by others (who only get the check from the check holder for a specific purchase). I'm also in favor of a petty cash amount for the Cubmaster to utilize, you should be able to look at past expenditures and set a reasonable amount, but they should also be able to account for funds spent from this budget item before getting a new draw. In our troop we often spend our own money, turn in the recipt and are then reimbursed by the treasurer for legitimate troop expenses. When you front your own money and know you are going to have go give an explanation of why this is a troop purchase, then you tend to be more careful about what you buy{and ensure that another troop leader thinks the troop needs it also} just in case the ruling on reimbursement goes against you.( I don't know of anyone ever being turned down for reimbursement yet in our troop.)

Welcome aboard Chief, grab a mug from the mess and join us. Plenty of scuttlebutt here. What exactly about adult leadership are you interested in?

Okay, but when we do this (leverage others certifications)does that mean that only one certification will fit the bill. In example rifle range. In order to properly fire on a BSA range I believe you need at least one if not both an NRA Rangemaster and an NRA Instructor to operate the range. (This is .22 caliber and pellet or BB guns folks.) I would bore you with what experience I think I have that would allow me to teach young shooters how to properly fire even a BB or pellet rifle while observing safety rules. But that could get long and boring. Another example is that there is more than one wilderness medical certification, does only the ARC's certification count? Or should alternate certification/experience be reviewed (possibly by Council Training professionals) followed by the issuance of a BSA certification? (Because isn't having the knowledge rather than a piece of paper what we are really after?) What do you think? What do you think?

Oh garbage!, don't bother sending me another rebuttal source. I've Googled it enough now to know it's probably a false attribution. I hate losing good quotes! Thanks for pointing it out.