Gunny2862

Hi my name is Joe... I used to have a running addiction, no literally, my wife would make me go run when I got home if my normal exercise window closed so that I wouldn't be grumpy around the house all evening. At camp this last week, I wouldn't have made coffee if we hadn't had an extra parent or two staying in camp overnight every night - fortunately we did. I freely admit to (formerly) being so addicted that in the past I would dip coffee grounds if I couldn't brew up a cup. I do think that the word addiction is being properly used in medical/psychological context but I don't see wanting/ needing caffeine as being in the same class as even tobacco or progressing to other substances. That said, I throw the ball back to Dan and ask if there is an underlying principle to his statement,"I would disqualify an SM for having a smoking addiction (or any other addiction)." as quoted by Oak Tree. And if so, what is the underlying principle?

Wow, great advice! The only thing left for me to add is that I can't add anything.

Scouter&mom, your concern is appropriate and appreciated but I think I may have the (no offense to anyone)best SM to train under ever. He is aware of my proclivities and keeps a tight rein and only loosens it when he sees that I have picked up the appropriate lessons about letting the boys fail and fixit. uz2bnowl, who controls the Arty around here anyway? That IS a great joke - except it's true right? Docf225, Gawd I love Corpsmen! The only ones on the field who care about Marines more than the mission - and used to be the only ones who ran toward impacting fires w/o a weapon. '84 MACG-18, '85 ELMACO CAMLEJ,'87 MSSG 22/24, back to ELMACO, '88 MACG-38,'89 MCCES 29Palms, CSSD-12 1st FSSG, '91-'97Joint Communications Support Element (JCSE) MacDill AFB, '98-2005 24th Marines KCMO.

You know, the advancement from one position to another is difficult in any arena whether it's from being blue collar to white collar on the same jobsite, or from a Scout to a Scouter. The rules tend to be the same though. You are now a Supervisor not a Team chief or Patrol Leader. You need to get some separation, I don't mean leave the unit but that you can't pal around the same way you did before - adult leaders generally pal around with the Scouts but differently and with the Adult/Scout boundary still in place. The other posters are right, this is when you spend more time with the adults and see how they act and react. Perhaps you take an Adult Quartermaster position for a time and let others deal with advancement issues. This should and can be a great time for you but it will be better if you establish some space in your relationships with the Scouts and then reestablish the relationships with the proper boundaries later.

First, I apologize to any who took offense at my comments, even though no offense was intended. I used LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) in the same way many use Vet. it is much shorter and hopefully is not currently a commonly disparaged acronym. In my experience only those who know and respect the term use it, those who are trying to denigrate LEO's use other terms I won't use here, instead. Second, I was off of the thread because we were at Summer Camp and I would have tried to stop any misinterpretation of my comments sooner If I had had access... Thirdly, I understand that some of us are dealing with Cub Scouts and others with Boy Scouts and quite frankly I would much rather have either of them, and their mothers, think of firearms as weapons rather than "paper punches" because it would hopefully induce (underline the following to the period, if I knew how)a level of seriousness every time someone picked one up. It's not the tool that isn't careful, isn't aware of whether or not it is unloaded, isn't aware of where it is pointed/aimed, wants to try something just this once, doesn't think about what is behind the point of aim... it is the person who is holding it who provides all of the safety associated with it. And so, we want the boys to think of knives and axes and saws as dangerous and to protect themselves and others from their misuse or careless use - Totin chip anyone? But are we afraid of doing the same with a rifle? Finally OGE (Old Grey Eagle) if OFS is what I think it is... I don't think you have it at all and am almost always in complete agreement with your posts. And again I apologize for any misinterpretation of my comments that were received as sarcastic or disparaging, especially those not intended to be sarcastic or disparaging.

Just back from this years encampment, and pleased to say there was only one stinky one and that was resolved after he was "ew" found to be stinky in a walk by. ( Stinky was intentionally trying to go the whole week; powder is good but it's not that good especially when everyone else is actually clean.) We simply made it clear that a nightly shower was expected, and anyone turning in a stinker would be rewarded. 1 shower every 24 hours was the minimum.

I agree that in advertising a course to the parents that a Firearms Safety Course is going to get a bigger draw than a Weapons Instruction Course, but if you are going to make a change why prejudice it by not making them both (Insert Firearms or Weapon) Safety Courses? or (Insert Firearms or Weapon)Instruction Courses? Making one Instruction and the other Safety changes the discourse without regard to the item being taught. Look quite frankly after experiencing many years of Close Combat Training, L.I.N.E Training, Tae Kwon Do, breaking up mild(hand only) and other disagreements, and the current USMC Martial Arts programs there are just a whole lot of things that can be called weapons. "One Mind, any Weapon" comes to mind. A firearm is a weapon regardless of the use to which it is currently being put, just like a Steak knife, Pocket knife, Camp Axe, Ice pick, CD case or even a pencil... Only a LEO would originate the idea that weapon designates that it had been involved in the commission of a crime. And finally I don't think that something being PC makes it the way it should be referred to. The only thing it makes it, is more PC than another term. And it that necessarily a good thing? Since the PC version often obfuscates the meaning of the original term.

Scotteng, but is amazing isn't it, how Mr Murphy hangs on the sideline w/o disrupting anything that is properly planned and supervised. Of course with a boy led wilderness encounter part of the fun is (within safety limits)seeing how they pull it back together when they realize that NO one has a compass and they left the trail 1/2 an hour ago, etc.

I LOVE your motto! Is it trademarked?

My Scouting experience is : Two brothers who were pulled by my parents after the SM had an alcohol+driving moment which meant I didn't get to join either. Reading the '72 or '76 Handbook (I'm not sure which it had a green cover and a Scout hiking on it)about a thousand times. And the Last 30 days when my Boy said "Hey, I want to join this troop". My Leadership experience: (without belaboring the point by going thru the whole thing) includes 21+ years leading or being led by Marines. Joined within last 30 days, Currently ASM (#2 of 2); Trying to get to Adult Leader Training. CPR and First Aid certified, Safety afloat Safe Swim Defense Troop committee Challenge and Fast Start: Boy Scouting completed. One 2 night campout and a Flag Retirement complete.

And don't forget that a lack of Scouting credentials doesn't mean someone wouldn't be a good Scouting leader. Especially if they are a Servant Leader type and look for training opportunities instead of waiting for the SM to "hint' about whats coming up. My Scouting experience is : Two brothers who were pulled by my parents after the SM had an alcohol+driving moment which meant I didn't get to join either. Reading the '72 or '76 Handbook (I'm not sure which it had a green cover and a Scout hiking on it) And the Last 30 days when my Boy said "Hey, I want to join this troop". My Leadership experience: (without belaboring the point by going thru the whole thing) includes 21+ years leading or being led by Marines.

Beavah, you are a wise woodchopper aren't you?! I have some of the same situation as "It's me" only I'm certain that it is mainly my perceptions that aren't seeing all of what is taking place in the troop. My answer is that I have signed up to be an ASM (Because I am #2 of 2 ASM's), and am working my way thru all of the training I can get to. (see below) I am also intentionally sitting as far back from the drivers seat as I can get while observing the "?normal?" functioning of the troop. I am also working my own way thru MY copy of the Scout Handbook. Funny thing though, My Troop Committee seems to think I need to Do more rather than learn my way in. The SM has a more balanced view, thank the Lord. Note: in BSA less than 30 days - Fast Start:Boy Scouting; Troop Committee Challenge; Safe Swim Defense; Safety Afloat; Red Cross CPR Adult/Child Infant with AED and Red Cross First Aid certified within that period; 2 night campout and Flag retirement, Troop Committee meeting last Monday, going to Roundtable tonight. Spending the whole week onsite at summer camp, this month. Just missed Adult Leader Training by about a month.

Simple, no. It is important for the adults to be involved in the boy's lives. If we aren't then how is it possible that we are influencing their characters? If we come across damaging activities/events in their lives isn't it our place to issue the level of course correction appropriate to our station? The issue of course is to remember that we are NOT their parents. And I really think Eamonn handled his situations well.

Wait a minute Gonzo! In what way are Karate and Football not civilized?!!! Aggression under control. A baseplate of the definition of Civilization! Not quite as culturally advanced as Tae Kwon Do and Wrestling of course; nose pointing up, sniff. But that's just IMHO. Insert smiley face.

You don't have to be a rough tough Ramboesque creation of myth to be a man. And I don't think that's what Scouting is about. But I also don't think that someone else's lack of control over their habits should cause one to become upset - offended, perhaps; take note of, sure; but if you wear your emotions on your sleeve people will take advantage of that. A lot of the things boys do as boys is about finding out the acceptable limits of behavior. Our reactions will tell them what we really think long before they hear our words. I think Scouting is a safe place for the boys to experiment. The right sort of leadership will "sort out" the boys choices in behavior. But simply putting a Pollyannish view of boys out there and completely prohibiting it will really only lead to it being done outside of scouting and thus outside of a framework we have influence in. Unless there is a different Golden Rule out there, I'm going to assume you mean "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." My personal problem with this is that it can still be interpreted as a self serving proverb and not affect the character of the kid.

I agree with ozemu that cursing is largely a sociological phenomenon. I wasn't sheltered growing up - I thought I'd heard them all.. until I met my Drill Instructor... until I got to the Fleet... until I was responsible for Marines and realized the terms I heard were being applied to me. But that's not the point. If you accept it, you'll hear it. If you don't accept it it will stop - at least in the context which includes you. Is that really different than doing the pushups? I think it is really only different in that 1)If the kid is willing to pay the price - he'll say what he wants, 2)Some people "get off" on your inability to punish them and will WELCOME the pushups, it becomes positive punishment which completely doesn't work for this kind of kid OR 3) the pushups incorporate the other scouts into the context and widens the circle in which the cursing is frowned upon . As far as incorporating manhood into the deal, sadly part of what makes men men, vs. women, is the signature ability to dehumanize others - it makes war possible. And the cursing is a low level version of this where boys incorporate it with teasing in order to figure out what the societally acceptable tipping point is where conversation tips into violence. It's the same as pranks. This they are going to do this whether we are around or not. So I'd rather be able to monitor and be able to repair any relationships that get bruised when they find the tipping point than have them do it outside of scouting and find enemies and physical, vs. verbal, combat with other kids who may not have the background of brotherhood to bring them back together. Personally, I'd rather prohibit it, can I live with it on campouts or at camp, yes. Should it ever be acceptable in any public forum, no. Marines would call it "Conduct unbecoming of a Marine" to do it at a Press Function, but just 50 feet away, there's probably some form of pejorative speech in play if there is an enlisted Marine around.

In our area, working with youth makes one a "mandated reporter", if there is a reasonable suspicion of abuse one is required to report it to the authorities. Not doing so opens the adult to legal action. The leeway to see if the "suspected abuser" was just momentarily not thinking is removed because the "wait and see" puts the adult in jeopardy. The boys being boys thing just doesn't fly in mandated reporter world - and if there is an inappropriate or abusive note to the activity it shouldn't anywhere. Laws forcing mandated reporting remove much of the angst Eamon is going thru because you really don't have a choice. It gets turned over to Family services who investigate and take "hopefully" appropriate actions. And as a mandated reporter you are not liable for "unfounded", according to the investigator, abuse reports.

Okay, I know I am new and freely admit this; so take it for what it is worth. I know that if I were dead that it is highly unlikely that my wife would remarry. If my son then decided to join scouting and my wife were told that she wasn't allowed to accompany or spotcheck what her child was being exposed to that there is no way she would allow him to be taken into the custody of a group of men she didn't personally know. The nature of the chartering organization would be completely irrelevant. It is completely an issue of her responsibility to the child to ensure his safety. My first instinct when the boy said he wanted to join, was regardless of whether or not I looked into leadership positions, was to determine if there was any resistance to having the parents around... not as leaders but merely to see what ways the adults interacted with the youth. Any significant resistance would have put my son and I both on the road looking for a different troop. The "public perception" of "Scoutmasters and Priests" is worse than many of you old-timers care to believe or may be exposed to since we tend to self-select our friends and shy away from those who don't agree with us. I currently think scouting is great, even with the politics of the adult realm. But if you won't bring a parent(either sex) camping once or twice or let them attend a couple of meetings if that enlists the parents confidence and recruits a scout, then the question becomes -"Why not, do you have something to hide?"