Gunny2862

GaHillBilly, I like all of the others responses, this is my additional spin. 1) I think as a new Scoutmaster who is also new to Scouting,< a year, that in my limited Scouting experience that the "fun" program is, in part, a carry over from the Webelos. You have to keep the young Scouts you get - if most of the things they do not have an element of fun then they won't stay involved. And then your troop dies. However, in any group, to include the Marines - having fun doing what you are doing is infinitely preferable to it just "sucking".(Sorry the mild pejorative was about as light as I could go without substituting it's own paragraph) And sometimes that fun is derived from the times when things go wrong and you creatively adapt and overcome the situation. 2) I agree, they SHOULD be more like the social group affiliation pattern and that is a part of them incorporating Scouting into their lives not just "going to Scouting" or doing MB's rather than really "traveling the trail to Eagle". But without an active program and a LOT of time together you just don't build the necessary unity that allows individuals to put the groupthink into effect, and it takes even more time together to establish it into a positve modus. 3) I think you answered your own question. But it does give you a group of boys and parents to start with. 4) In my mind, when I was a Private and Private First Class, I had thought that making it to First Sergeant or Master Sergeant and retiring would have been all that I would have wanted from the Corps(as an Eagle equivalent goal) well I didn't make those goals but I found once I arrived that being a Gunnery Sergeant was really where I wanted to be and don't think now that I would have enjoyed either of those previously mentioned positions as much. Although the First Sergeant track would have led to Sergeant Major which I also think could have been a good time. Now I ask you, did I fail in my military career because I a) didn't become the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps? b) didn't make the First sergeant/ Master Sergeant rank? I realize that there are significant differences here - almost everyone CAN make eagle if they want to - in the military it's not entirely your choice - i.e., postings can place you in competition for advancement with those who have combat experience when you have none(in a recognized combat zone) or in competition with recognized units rather than in strange "Joint" units where no one(on the promotion boards, and few others) knows what you did. The thing I think is important about this is that the SM conferences should be utilized to also educate the young lad on what he needs to do to get to Eagle - while recognizing that it has to be his goal. If my son gets his Eagle I will be proud of him and the work that went into it. As his parent I will proudly wear my acknowledgment pin - but as his SM no part of that Eagle is mine nor the Eagle of any other Scout. We try to ensure that they know what is required and that we make the opportunities available to them - from that point it is their Eagle to earn and/or their Scouting trail to enjoy.

Prior Service Marine is accepted by some, Former Marine only by those trying not to make people feel bad by correcting them. Our Scout Service Center/ Store had the foul weather hat covers available. Ozark Trails Council. Off topic: I understand jumping out of the plane, OohRah!! - it's the still being connected to it that would bother me(static line). ahem, Hooah! Volker, were you in the German military? If so, do they have the motivational terms like the U.S. of America forces use and is there an associated meaning to it/them? i.e. OohRah and Hooah?

With Troop elections coming up I as SM stand in front of the potential situation where my son may wind up being elected to the SPL position. Any Scout may be elected to any position at any (six month) election. We do not have the no blood relative rule mentioned above although we do avoid it for MB and rank advancement conflicts. Frankly, in my particular situation, in our troop, with my particular parenting dynamic, and my sons outlook on Scouting - I would rather be the one to advise and train him in this position. Although I would rather see him PL or APL first, he was elected to the QM for his first 6 month cycle in Scouting - and that was an eye opener for him, although he was working exclusively with the Committee equipment person who is also his patrols ASM.

I've got a new one and I'm going to keep the brim as flat as possible. I've only worn it a few times but the Scouts have remarked how easy it is to find me in a crowd of adults with the "newly shaped" campaign hat. They seem to get a kick out of it too. You can also make more of a travel protector(vice hat press) to avoid the "goofy" brim set with a folded piece of heavy cardboard cut in a U shape to allow the upper portion of the hat to slide in with the brim held flat. A cheap hat press can be made out of two sheets of thin flat plywood. Cut two boards to a square shape slightly larger, +1/4 inch at least, not more than 1/2 inch is necessary. Cut a centered hole in the top sheet the size of your upper hat, center that on the lower sheet, drill a hole in each of the corners, place thumbscrew bolts and clamp the hat in place. This is good to maintain shape for storage and if done after steaming the brim will reshape it to the flat brim you are looking for to start. Works best with a thicker sheet on the bottom to resist the pull of the bolts. You can also use swiveling/hinged bolts to make it easier to put the hat in or take it out.

Haven't had the problem yet. Our Scouts cook well enough that I've not seen them have a bad meal yet(not that you guys are having bad meals) - so they all eat it. My peeve is the sneaking of snack foods that are kept in their packs/ tents rather than safely bear bagged or trailered in non-bear country. I don't so much care about the snacking, its the situation that will arise when that raccoon or skunk is hungrier than it is scared of going in the tent. Or when Jerky grease is lingering in a tent that goes to Bear Country.

Webelos Woods weekend at Camp Arrowhead. Webelos arrive for an overnight with the appropriate parental support of course. And are sponsored by a Troop who assist with their campsite and evening meal and Campfire/Cracker barrel. Then Breakfast and on to a day of Scouts teaching Webelos requirements for the AoL. Parents get to see scouts from various troops, see how much adult intervention takes place in the classes and evaluate which Troops their boys might do best in. And which Troops cared enough to provide classes and or Sponsor campsites. I was so proud of the ENTIRELY BOY-LED campfire program... I had to walk away from the smoke tearing me up. First time event, sniff, sniff. Plus we received many good reviews of our training programs(First aid/Safety topics) from parents who were wondering how far they were from us. The Scouts done good!

Or even Whack-a mole`.

Okay, I'm not against training every year but then shouldn't the entire spectrum of training be available(at least once) every year within a Council? If not, what specific courses are we saying should be annualized? YPT at the least. But it's online. A Leader who wanted to be fully trained who joined when I did and was able to take advantage of every needed training opportunity could still not have earned his strip in less than 14 months in this council. I'm still going to be that long(If IOLS doesn't go against my work schedule - although I'm willing to take vacation for it if necessary) and I've gone out of Council to attempt to expedite the timeline. But I don't think that Vacation time should have to be used to attend mandatory training if it goes that way and the Council doesn't remember that they are scheduling training for volunteers, not paid staff. At least half of my vacation goes to Scouting already - and I haven't had time for it to claim more of it yet.

On my previous post in this thread I spoke from my uninformed knowledge of the issue regarding the model of our tent. Correction follows: Ten Eureka Timberline, 4 person, 4-season, Outfitter tents. On the other hand, the Troop has used six of the same ten original purchase tents for TEN YEARS. Four were replaced after being stolen from our storage facility four years ago but were in good condition when they were taken. Cost over time about $24 a year or roughly $1.09 a night with a low average of 22 nights a year for the Troop outings as a whole(real average probably 26-30 nights a year for any given tent) over the ten years without the theft replacement. These tents run +/-239.90 now from Campmor. Which is a $100 more than the T2XT and $50 more than the T4XT but, ALL tents are still in good shape.(I can't tell the replacements from the new.) And we do use them the way that was previously described, and treat them as two-man tents with plenty of storage, makes using a real backpacking tent a joy when we do the HA trips, I'm told.

Wait a minute! Wait a minute! On the immediately previous post I did not edit and the ' apostrophe worked correctly. What happened? testing : can't, won't.

I hope this post started as tongue-in-cheek. No you don't have it wrong hops_scout. I feel certain that you are also aware of the growth you made as a person during those twelve years. And how different your life might have been without Scouting. Yes, as you examine Scouting from your new perspective you may find that there are aspects that you were not seeing from within but do not let that discourage you. The key is that the program with its flaws still delivered for you and can still deliver for many more. And it delivered what it promised. Not Eagle but accomplishment, not prestige but development, not fluff and stuff but character. Be proud of your Scouting past and if you choose to engage, enjoy your Scouting future! This Scoutmaster has NO Scouting background - and I'm trying to enjoy the journey as much as the boys - even with the recognition of some of the things you are now starting to see.

Now just calm down. (Caution Hillbilly dialect follows) It ain't not that bad yet nohow. And what zackly is this dyin' to be critical thing raisin` a stink roun` heah. Weuns r critical enough w'out dyin' to be so. (end Hillbilly) Is there a reasonable response to the DAS? W/o resorting to post hoc editing?

This is an interesting question. Thanks for bringing it up. IMVHO, and opinion only I would like to think that if the boy is still in Scouting that equipment purchase as Aquila calvas last paragraph posits should (if it's not) be allowed. I would like to think that you could also empty the account into the outgoing boys pocket without penalty but can clearly see the ethical issue there. Transfer to another troop - send it with him by sending it directly to their treasurer. In my case I would like to(now that you've brought it up) propose to my CC that we xfer those funds into a Scouting for the less fortunate fund that we would utilize prior to asking Council or calling for donations out of the Leaders pockets to keep boys in Scouting who's families CANNOT afford Scouting.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Welcome!! Is that Cat reference due to the Tiger cub or a certain local sports team reference? (This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Ya know, I sometimes wonder about the stridency we put in our posts... I''m trying, but the costs anarchist proposed for training would send me out of a shirt and back into the cheap seats. No matter how well I was treated. Not all of us have excellent jobs, benefits and flush savings account due to being debt free.(Working on getting there, but it''s not my current reality) Although I''d love the alternate reality where I could pay those fees and feel a little sting doing it and feel good about it too. But none of that doesn''t mean that I don''t want to know as much as I can so I can do my best for the Scouts. University of Scouting is the last weekend of this month here, a ten dollar bargain basement price too. And yes, I''m signed up.

You can still get those cnavas tents thru the military surplus section at the Sportsmans guide. I was around long enough ago to have been issued a shelter half, used it many times. [sportsmansGuideSpecials@sportsmansguide.com] then search.

Eamonn, I don''t know what you are going through yet, I dread the day the wifes dog goes to wait at the Rainbow Bridge - I know that for her it will be near to losing a child. I hope you are able to recover and take solace in your remaining family.

As a new Scoutmaster of a medium to small Troop, Recruiting is ALSO on my radar screen. We are going to the Council held, advertised and run YEA, Webelos Woods program at our local Council Scout Reservation we are Sponsoring at least one Pack with Tentage, Breakfast, and possibly Dinner and Scout helpers to take the Webelos through the Councils program which we are also providing a skill set area for. We are reaching out to a second Pack also. We have had Scouts ask about Den Chiefing as a POR and are developing a plan to reach out to several Packs as we have been burned in the past by sending out Den Chiefs to only one or two Packs only to be spurned when it came to transition time even though those troops that got the new Scouts took no interest in them as Webelos. I realize that every ones time has demands but have you reached out to a nearby Troop about establishing a relationship? You would find us an enthusiastic contact.

I know that when I read it I "hear" his voice but I don''t think it is available as a recording anywhere. I looked for it today and didn''t come close to any audio hits.

Aquila, I concur about how you treat the parents,we are recovering from an, oh well, um, interesting CC who dominated portions of the program - turning off many parents. And left us without a functional Committee - only one of our current Committee members(the outgoing SM and new CC) understood that our "Parent Meetings" under the old administration were actually "Committee meetings" We are doing a LOT of training around here. Our insistence on YPT to CAMP (any parent can drive with two person integrity)but to CAMP with the Troop YPT is required by the Troop IS a parent requested issue, that came about not in response to any issue but to prevent any issues during a period when we had a lot of in and out visitors. And it isn''t like it is an onerous burden on an incoming parent and should be a reassuring item. I liked it as a new parent. We are also building a version of the Old Goat patrol. In addition to the many other fronts we are working on.

Our COR owns the tents. Our Scouts take pretty good care of them. We use Eureka Timberlines. I haven''t seen abuse yet but conspicuously carry a $9.99 tube tent for the first tent abuser/s I see or is reported.(And yes I paid too much for the tube tent and everyone knows what it is for.) We have occasionally lost a few tent stakes - but only after the entire troop was assembled and walked down the area the where the tent in question was pitched, and when I say a few I mean maybe two or three since march this year. Component bag(Stake bags/Pole bags) tears are reported promptly - usually a failed seam which is quickly repaired. The tents themselves are holding up nicely. We also stock some backpacking tents but allow individual backpacking tents to be used at the PL''s discretion.

Using your toolbox DO NOT allow this to happen if it means that the Older Scouts are abdicating and not intending to do any skills training or be actively involved with the younger Scouts. We are currently attempting to recover from that particular malady. The older and more advanced Scouts should NOT be allowed to segregate themselves from the younger less advanced ones. Hopefully the older Scouts are planning on training from above and from below but I''m somehow not holding my breath on that. Did they hold on to the SPL/ASPL positions? If so that, at least, is a good sign, if they are planning to lead/train the PL''s. Work and rework your calendar, attempt to ensure that OA and Council activities are included. Look at last years calendar and see what and when it was done by council last year they will probably be on or near the same plan this year. This should help somewhat with the adult overrides on their plan. Fair seas and following undersea currents, and let us know what is going on as it develops. BZ

Don''t forget basics such as an individual fitting of Backpacks, why more than one sock per foot, why Wool clothing rather than cotton in the cold. Start at the bottom and train up, your more experienced members should be able to volunteer to teach sections(will also keep them from getting bored while you train the inexperienced one) and it gives them a refresher on the material. I like the LNT angle in this case! Don''t forget an actual compass course with bypass obstacles, and you can always set a compass to a false declination and then give the information to the crew as a map addendum to see who is really able to navigate. If you do this ensure you set the course with the same false declination on your compass.

WOW John, that is quite an endorsement for something! I am going to have to ensure that I am available for WB when it''s offered again.

OGE,I agree fully, and think that every boy DOES deserve a trained leader. If you look at my earliest posts and the first of mine in this thread you''ll see that I am scratching and clawing at the system to get to all of the training I can. I''m actually a little upset that I have to miss an LNT-Trainer course due to a Scouting event not this but next weekend.(I know, I don''t need it to be "Trained" but it would be good to have.) The issue at stake for me here isn''t the mandatory training, it''s the way they''ve approached it. Communication isn''t just putting the word out, it''s how you say it too.