fred8033

Requiring 2+ registered leaders for each den meeting escalates den mtg plans to "PACK" level planning. Pack reserves one bigger den meeting space and a common time. Then dens share. If not two dens, then have a pack committee member, CC or CM attend too. In the old days, we could reserve a school cafeteria for a very cheap rate (a $50 budget item per month for the year). OR a local church. OR an outdoor space that is just "used" without reservation.

I hear open snide jokes about BSA and CSA from those involved in football and hockey and other activities. ... I just don't get it ... As long as I've been alive, the worst crimes ... and I do mean crimes ... have been committed by those in those sports against others in the sport or against others in the schools. Worse, there is every bit as much abuse from adult leaders in those groups as have been in scouts. ... BSA needs to get better handle on the perception.

@LostParent ... Wishing you the best. Scouting can be frustrating. Try to focus on the positive and the good experiences. The times goes really quick.

All the involved leaders are volunteers. Often doing the best they can. We as parents easily get stressed or incensed as our kids and our cash is involved. ... We'd hope finances from the fundraiser and how they are used would be clearly reported and shared. Often though, it's at the time and energy of those involved. At times, I was just happy when the treasurer made the deposits in a timely manor. ... Or reimbursed people in the same week. ... Be careful what you wish for. You might end up as the fundraiser coordinator or treasurer. BUT ... your request is not unreasonable. I'd want the same info. I'm just saying the leaders are volunteers and might be doing the best they can. "Paperwork" wise, each unit (pack, troop, etc) always has it's own committee chair, committee, scoutmaster, and leaders. The Charter org has ONE charter org rep above the units to coordinate scouting in the charter org. If the units are tightly tied, the paperwork could show the same person as COR and CC for all units involved. It's happened. It's really up to the volunteer leaders and how they want to structure it and how much they can handle. I'm not surprised that the boys troop and the girls troop have separate CCs but overlapping committee members. To really figure this out and understand more, often the best place to start is a smile, a handshake and friendly cup of coffee. Build the friendships first. Ask the questions second.

The non-profit is the charter organization (if there is a non-profit). Troops don't incorporate; charter orgs do. So, "if they are sister troops", then they are probably under the same non-profit. It's okay for a non-profit to have a fundraiser and then share the results with their specific missions / sub-groups as they see fit. Scouting dollars almost always stay in scouting (99.99% of the time); but that is not even a hard rule. The non-profit "should" have an annual report, but that's for the bigger non-profit organization (church, etc). Scouting is an arms-length program that works mostly separately. Finances don't co-mingle with charter org "usually". In fact, the charter org almost never sees the scouting money. So, don't expect scouting in the charter org annual reports. ... BUT ... I'd hope the troop publishes their financial state at least once a year. Ideally, once a month. BUT, it's not required. My question is what was communicated for how the fundraisers would work. If they are following that, they are good. If you don't agree, you can advocate for change. The best way to do that is to get more involved in the unit. Another way is to stop participating in fundraising. My real question is are they closely tied or loosely tied. One charter org? One committee? One committee chair? Do they camp together often? Do they have a single or overlapping schedule? If so, they sharing funds makes sense. ... on the other hand ... if they are a different committee and different schedule and don't overlap, the funds seem like they should be separate. It's really up to the leaders in the unit to setup the expectations and communicate.

Some bad behavior is push back because it's mainly their parents that want them in scouts. They might not really want to be there. Some bad behavior is perception. We remember past new scouts being better than they really were. Don't ignore bad behavior. It can poison a troop. Also, don't over react. It can kill the fun.

@vze3nbyb1 SM & CC not informing committee may have been their attempt to keep sensitive information from becoming gossip and overwhelming a kid already in trouble. I can respect that. BUT, the challenge is it sounds like the whole troop knew or were about to find out. It's really not a good situation.

This is a phrase that makes me stop. It's well intentioned and wishing nothing but good for everyone. It's also very dangerous and can kill a troop. You can endanger scouts (teaching drugs or other edge behavior). You drive good kids away. Your troop gets a bad reputation that scares future families away. My view is behavior needs to be within scouting boundaries. No drugs. No criminal activity. (etc, etc). Youth outside that boundary are beyond scouting. Yes, scouting could help them, but you can't accept responsibility for them and you can't risk the whole troop. If the youth returns to good boundaries, then the youth can be in the troop. Until then, the youth needs to move on. Every situation has nuances. You know this kid. Your scouts know the kid. It's really on those in-the-know. ... the fact your scouts say the kid needs to move on is a good indication. To be honest ... the kid may already have moved on beyond scouting. The kid may not care about his scouting future.

Is he having fun in scouting? If so, celebrate. If he doesn't get a specific MB or rank, don't sweat it. It's just a youth activity. It really doesn't matter. Focus on your connection with your kid more than forcing his achievements.

And if your COR is also the CC, then talk to the charter executive officer (the pastor, etc). If you don't know who that is, call the council office for advice.

I'd question the value of scouting if that's the average. For active scouts in our troop, the average was closer to 15 to 20. Summer camp 5 nights. 5 to 10 of the offered monthly campouts. 3 nights a year does not sound like fun scouting. I really hate thinking that way. Yes possible, but what is the value of scouting then.

I wish everyone the best. Change can be very, very painful. Personally, I enjoyed the OA events and ceremonies. Using AIA folklore added character. For long-time OA members, it's core to OA. I also cringe and won't defend the OA AIA ceremonies when asked by others. I personally don't want to be associated with it. For new scouts and their families, it's an obstacle to overcome.

This is one of those cases where I roll my eyes. The key is should youth be challenged by going outside camping to have experiences beyond their comfort zone. Then whether it's BSA or a NSO, it's moot. IMHO, a NSO would be a huge waste of pre-existing resources and goodwill to rebrand to satisfy a small population of disgruntled people. BSA cries out for real, massive re-engineering, but destroying and restarting is just not a real option.

@Mrjeff The challenge is defining what are the rules? With BSA been beat up with so many challenges lately, I really don't know the rules your a concerned about. A specific MB that is strongly political? Faith requirements? Sexual orientation? Gender? What is your analogy specifically targeting? At some point, I wish we'd just define Eagle scout (our ideal result) as completing 100 nights of camping with similar number of cooking their own camp meals, setting up their own tent, etc, etc ... and, some skill demonstrations (First aid. Swimming. Camping. Cooking. etc, etc) and say 150 hours of service. The rest is noise and too often 3rd rate quality.

Ten years ago, we were at least $7000 for a few years. Four scouts active and two adults. A few years the kids attended summer camps from multiple troops. Sometimes high adventures. Other costs. ... On top of the explicit cost, add wear and tear on cars and adults and time away from jobs.

Councils are already seeing that. Thus councils starting all-in funding themselves too. Individuals pay much larger fees and are not expected to do FOS.

Question ... if $400 is cost, why collect $200 ? Or is the $400 with weekend campouts ?

Nope. It was a power mom that wanted her son to earn Eagle.

I only mentioned camping as we had a similar challenge with a parent suggesting that camping counted by pitching a tent inside a building counted as camping as the scout did not like sleeping outside. That defeated purpose of the badge. Similar to a stationary exercise bike instead of a road bike outside on the road.

Cycling or hiking or swimming. It's not really required. If none of those are possible, then there are other options like @RememberSchiff suggested. I read in the original post "had" large motor delays. I took it as the scout matured slowly. If the scout still has disabilities, than the disability route should be taken. Also, I really like what @InquisitiveScouter suggested. I see many adults all the time use recumbent bikes. There are three wheel versions of those too. https://www.amazon.com/Mobo-Recumbent-Cruiser-Tricycle-3-Wheel/dp/B002LOT6SK/ref=sr_1_16?crid=1CNSPNNDLZ1RE&keywords=recumbent%2Broad%2Bbike%2Bperformance&qid=1696517636&sprefix=recumbant%2Broad%2Bbike%2Bperformance%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-16&th=1 IMHO, I'd really rather see a replacement MB than something that rips the guts out of the MB.

No for different reasons. It's just a badge. Earning that specific badge isn't really needed. It won't block advancement. What about really growing as a person? That's the MB purpose. Using a real bike is meaningful and useful. ... Would he wear the badge with pride and a symbol of fulfilling what the badge is about? I'd argue no. Sitting on a stationary bike for hours is exercise and not much about cycling. It's like parents that wanted kids to earn camping but the kid would not sleep outside in a tent. So, can you earn "camping" by pitching a tent inside a cabin and then sleep in the tent? I'd argue no. The key point is scout rank and scout merit badges are just not that important. Learning and growing is. Now, we can be extremely flexible in interpreting requirements.

Scouting units should scale up and down depending on resources and interest. No no youth scouts want to be leaders? 19 inactive scouts and 7 active scouts? Sounds like the structured program is not the best. Perhaps there is something wrong there. ... Fine. ... For now, the troop adult leaders should scale back to focus on providing an active fun program. Camp outs. Activities. Fellowship. etc, etc, etc. Troop should not worry about a structured program that develops youth leadership (for now). Plus IMHO, the best lessons for youth leadership happen naturally thru the troop being active. Helping each other set up tents. Naturally by cooking meals. ... As soon as scouts show interest, adults continually step back into the shadows and let the scouts naturally lead scouts. It's a dance. To the SPL: My advice is the same to you as to a seasoned adult volunteer. Don't be a victim. Don't sacrifice yourself to save a unit. You have a life. You have choices to make where you want to spend your time. If it's in scouting, that's your choice. ... It is 100% okay to step back. ... In fact, I think it's a good idea for you. ... If I was your parent and saw you have a job, I'd be very proud. Fewer youth work to earn their own way these days. ... In high school? I'd expect you to need to scale back. ... Keep your health. Keep your sanity. Celebrate life and the journey you are on.

General ... COR selects leaders and that's mostly it. KEY POINT --> COR does NOT inject into daily execution. COR does not guide or approve anything daily. Problem is that many people sign up to be COR to get power over SM/CC. The real defense is that SM/CC are volunteers. The willingness to move on is real power. Be prepared to walk away. That takes away the COR overreaching their role. ... Same with CC overstepping his role. CC runs committee that administers the troop. The CC does NOT execute the program or work with scouts. ... Don't passively support the CC by letting him do that. The Eagle Court of Honor. ... COR/CC should NOT be injecting anything into a Eagle Court of Honor. IMHO, threatening to throw a tantrum is hot air. Go ahead and do it. He'll look like a foot and destroy the troop. ... Plus !!! * There is no such thing as an official Eagle ceremony. * The ceremony does not make the Eagle. It's just recognition after-the-fact. * If COR threatens to stop the ECOH, then the COR is saying I'm firing the SM and CC. So, stopping an ECOH would be firing the unit leaders. * IMHO, the most important is that many troops view the ECOH as NOT a troop event and not a patrol event. It's a scout event. The scout and his family chooses the venue, script, attendees, related awards, etc. Fundraising ... I did not understand the fundraising statement. BUT, we generally don't keep cash in the scout closet. It should be deposited and credited to the right accounts. Transparency. CC works with treasurer to administer it. COR is not involved. ... Too many roles ... A good CC should be CC (maybe COR) and then do nothing else. Maybe fill in as necessary. Then, smooze and con (aka recruit) the next "volunteer" to help. That's how a good troop keeps running. That's a key job of the CC. Summary ... Sounds like you need to have a real non-stressful heart to heart with the CC. If you can't solve it, decide whether to talk to the head pastor or other. Otherwise, be prepared to walk away. Let him burn down his own house. You don't need to burn with it.

Wishing you the best. We get one life. It's right to move on when the magic is lost and the pain becomes real. Wishing you the best in all things you do.

It's very important, but even with the training I've seen ... people run the program they've learned from the previous unit leaders or they do what they want. Training is very important but not a failure root cause. This is a fundamental issue in my view: the broken connections between packs and troops. Directly related, "emphasizing" troop shopping is bad. If the unit is not a good match, then switch. Fine. BUT! It's bad to have individuals shopping around causing splits and breaks in continuity. A few big units thrive. Smaller and medium units hurt. Worse, long term relationships get damaged as people move for various reasons. ... In this day and age of driving around and shopping, people are used to going further and looking for the best deal. IMHO, this is bad for scouting as it moves youth away from their immediate community. My view is a single unit committee that oversees a program from youngest cubs to oldest scout / explorer is critical. New parents see where what their scout could achieve. Youth have older scouts to look up too. Plus, experienced older scouts could help run some younger programs at times. Yep. Also bad.