fred8033

That is an overly simplistic statement. About what? Child Abuse in 1970s was about Battered Child Syndrome; CSA was not the focus until 1990s. Teachers were looking for bruises and physical signs of abuse. To whom? School administration is a government entity hired and paid for by the tax payer. Half the states.

That was the standard of practice across all organizations I knew. I'm sure teachers even in the 1990s were told to first talk to the principal before calling authorities to report abuse.

82,000 is a paperwork number and still an unproven number. That is the number of claims submitted, but was a surprise number by everyone from all sides. We will never really know the real number Since 1960s, BSA has had tens of millions of youth members. I would not be surprised if 100 million plus. So, is it a high level or not. And then compare it to number of youth benefiting from scouting. If we argue on emotions, any single injury is bad. Period. If we argue on numbers, then there is a real question if BSA better or worse than other organizations.

@Oboman ... Your response is the common sense and very basic. I have no issues with what you wrote. You also missed many really good supporting arguments such as BSA did way more to keep out abusers (i.e. ineligible volunteer files) than many organizations including schools and other youth programs. And, that the volunteer files documented case after case being handled correctly. ... The problem is the legal interpretation. Common sense is not legal in court. This case was 100% about deep pockets. Some people will absolutely get rich from this. Some lives will be changed. .... It just won't be the victims.

Don't use fundraising as a decision factor. It's noise; annoying yes, but still noise. Key factors are fun and involvement and a healthy environment.

Gotta love BSA ... Says different here. I assume it is out of date. https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/faqs/#:~:text=Youth can join a Scout,not yet 18 years old. Also gotta love legalistic wording that is clear as mud. ... "after March 1" ... So a kid could register April 1st of 4th grade, then when they enter 5th grade they can move to a troop ? I doubt it's the intention, but it's the wording. It might have been better to say completed 5th grade or in the last three months of fifth grade.

Your scout's experience comes first. Period. ... I am sad that my kids are grown. The truth is the time passes too quick. Their scouting careers are very, very short. Get your kid into a great scouting experience now. AND, it is 100% okay to switch packs and then just sit back and enjoy scouting from the shadows. Volunteer now and then as you can, but let others take the lead as you watch your kid grow.

These numbers are painful to me. A few decades ago, Cub Scouts existed as a place for kids who want to be like their big brothers in troops; a waiting ground until they could do the big boy activities. Now, it's the main membership. I really question it's value. I really do. ... The massive drop off in Cub numbers before joining troops makes me think others question the value too. ... Plus, I think there are other stronger little kid programs out there that are easier to do. Scouting shines in troops and getting older kids in the outdoors camping, facing challenges, and having adventures. I really, really, really question scouting's value when the emphasis is as a younger kids program. It just does not shine the same way. I always envisioned Scouting as an affordable version of Outward Bound. "Outward Bound USA is the leading provider of outdoor education programs that allow young people to explore their personal potential, since 1962. From expeditions in some of the most remote locations in the U.S. to programs in local schools and neighborhoods, young people nationwide are cultivating a passion for learning, and discovering greater success in school, work and life." https://outwardbound.org/ Scouting has a major branding issue and has lost it's focus. It's not about membership or lost values. It's about the value of the program. As scouting exists now, I really question the future of scouting. Sadly, society really has a real need for a program like scouting "WAS". Every day, I see young men that are lost and lacking confidence. I see youth that would benefit from outdoor challenges; to know they are capable on their own.

Can't ignore the challenge of two years of lawsuit infomercials.

Such an interesting point. So so so so few scouters stay helping cub scouts. Most love to help troops. IMHO, this is a reflection of how much extra work cub scouts is and how much more meaningful troop scouting is.

I think this is a good summary. BSA membership had a short-term boost by opening to younger and younger scouts. BUT, it's now killing the membership numbers in later years. Worse, it's changed the experience and also the perception of the experience such that many now question the value of scouting. My apologies as I've said it over and over again. For my four sons, if I had to do it over again, I would have started my boys in scouts at 3rd grade when they could start being more independent with other youth their age. Heck, I'd be okay if they had their first scouting experience in a troop and missed cub scouts. The big big big big scouting benefits happen in the later scouting years.

Great answer. My gut says it's a quietly observe problem.

All answers start here. BSA Guide To Safe Scouting. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf * Key point ... Page three ... "All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders. " His solution does not completely jive with G2SS as all activities are to be open. But it is also not explicitly against G2SS as he has the required number of registered adults. My real question is why? Ask. Why. Get to know the scoutmaster. Offer a coffee or cookie. Then broach the question. I suspect there is a different issue he's trying to solve. Obsessive parents? Too many parents? Parents inserting themselves. My own history as an adult leader showed that adults inserting themselves into the youth program was one of the absolute biggest problems in scouting. It kills the program.

Let the perception be that y-guides and soccer be the little kids program. Scouts should start when we trust them to start a fire and use a knife.

Going back to three years would be a huge improvement. Expanding cub scouts to be same size as boy scouts has been a killer for retention, perception, etc, etc, etc. The current 5.5 years way too much.

Just starting my comment off yours. My apologies, I'm not targeting you. Just sharing my thoughts. It's just an award and really not that special of an award. Any kid that stays in and is mostly active earns AOL. Also, parents do most of the work. Any cooperative kid generally earns AOL. I fear emphasizing AOL as a culmination or "highest award" perverts perception. It makes people question the meat of the rest of the program if AOL is emphasized like that. The real learning of scouting comes from the individuals doing activities independently as they mature. Example - sleeping in a tent they setup during a thunderstorm. Cubs started as a way for younger siblings to be in scouting while their older brothers did really cool things. IMHO, we should get back to that. Cubs is fun and family and some skills building. ... AOL? Fine, but it's just not that big of a deal. (Don't tell my kids I said that).

I just don't understand the need for small councils anymore. Most training and registration is online. The key now is economies of scale to reduce cost and offer more opportunities.

Yep, but low scout numbers. 4300 scouts. That should be considered a small size council that could be merged yet again one or two more times.

Requiring 2+ registered leaders for each den meeting escalates den mtg plans to "PACK" level planning. Pack reserves one bigger den meeting space and a common time. Then dens share. If not two dens, then have a pack committee member, CC or CM attend too. In the old days, we could reserve a school cafeteria for a very cheap rate (a $50 budget item per month for the year). OR a local church. OR an outdoor space that is just "used" without reservation.

I hear open snide jokes about BSA and CSA from those involved in football and hockey and other activities. ... I just don't get it ... As long as I've been alive, the worst crimes ... and I do mean crimes ... have been committed by those in those sports against others in the sport or against others in the schools. Worse, there is every bit as much abuse from adult leaders in those groups as have been in scouts. ... BSA needs to get better handle on the perception.

@LostParent ... Wishing you the best. Scouting can be frustrating. Try to focus on the positive and the good experiences. The times goes really quick.

All the involved leaders are volunteers. Often doing the best they can. We as parents easily get stressed or incensed as our kids and our cash is involved. ... We'd hope finances from the fundraiser and how they are used would be clearly reported and shared. Often though, it's at the time and energy of those involved. At times, I was just happy when the treasurer made the deposits in a timely manor. ... Or reimbursed people in the same week. ... Be careful what you wish for. You might end up as the fundraiser coordinator or treasurer. BUT ... your request is not unreasonable. I'd want the same info. I'm just saying the leaders are volunteers and might be doing the best they can. "Paperwork" wise, each unit (pack, troop, etc) always has it's own committee chair, committee, scoutmaster, and leaders. The Charter org has ONE charter org rep above the units to coordinate scouting in the charter org. If the units are tightly tied, the paperwork could show the same person as COR and CC for all units involved. It's happened. It's really up to the volunteer leaders and how they want to structure it and how much they can handle. I'm not surprised that the boys troop and the girls troop have separate CCs but overlapping committee members. To really figure this out and understand more, often the best place to start is a smile, a handshake and friendly cup of coffee. Build the friendships first. Ask the questions second.

The non-profit is the charter organization (if there is a non-profit). Troops don't incorporate; charter orgs do. So, "if they are sister troops", then they are probably under the same non-profit. It's okay for a non-profit to have a fundraiser and then share the results with their specific missions / sub-groups as they see fit. Scouting dollars almost always stay in scouting (99.99% of the time); but that is not even a hard rule. The non-profit "should" have an annual report, but that's for the bigger non-profit organization (church, etc). Scouting is an arms-length program that works mostly separately. Finances don't co-mingle with charter org "usually". In fact, the charter org almost never sees the scouting money. So, don't expect scouting in the charter org annual reports. ... BUT ... I'd hope the troop publishes their financial state at least once a year. Ideally, once a month. BUT, it's not required. My question is what was communicated for how the fundraisers would work. If they are following that, they are good. If you don't agree, you can advocate for change. The best way to do that is to get more involved in the unit. Another way is to stop participating in fundraising. My real question is are they closely tied or loosely tied. One charter org? One committee? One committee chair? Do they camp together often? Do they have a single or overlapping schedule? If so, they sharing funds makes sense. ... on the other hand ... if they are a different committee and different schedule and don't overlap, the funds seem like they should be separate. It's really up to the leaders in the unit to setup the expectations and communicate.

Some bad behavior is push back because it's mainly their parents that want them in scouts. They might not really want to be there. Some bad behavior is perception. We remember past new scouts being better than they really were. Don't ignore bad behavior. It can poison a troop. Also, don't over react. It can kill the fun.

@vze3nbyb1 SM & CC not informing committee may have been their attempt to keep sensitive information from becoming gossip and overwhelming a kid already in trouble. I can respect that. BUT, the challenge is it sounds like the whole troop knew or were about to find out. It's really not a good situation.