fred8033

Our arguments might not be incompatible. The methods all work together. It's not that you use one method at a time. The patrol method overlaps with the outdoor method to have patrols planning and doing outdoor adventures. It's adult association overlapping with the outdoor method to get scouts outside being active. The methods working together achieve the mission. It's like Baden-Powell said: Advancement is like a suntan. Something you get naturally whilst having fun in the outdoors. We achieve patriotism, courage, self-reliance, kindred virtues, etc by getting scouts active outside having adventures. The nature of working together to solve the challenges of outdoor adventures instills the BSA values in the scouts. To be blunt, the outdoor adventures and time with their friends is what attracts scouts (and parents). The values are why BSA says it exists. The values are important to the parents, but many parents would argue baseball, football and hockey support the same values. BSA is unique and special because of the outdoor method to install the values. IMHO, the rest is a mush to try to be everything to everyone.

It's not advancement that's the problem. Kids want to brag. The problem is shallow covered topics that are not part of the core of scouting. Advancement should be outdoor, adventure, troop skills. Five shallow covered citizen batches to earn Eagle? ... including citizen of the family Merit badges where the badge is often effectively a joke. How many scouts have said when asked what they learned? "I really don't know." or "Nothing." IMHO ... to earn cycling, the scout should go on a campout where there is a 50+ mile bike ride. ... to earn hiking, the troop should do a campout with a 10+ miles of hiking (5+ each direction) ... to earn canoeing, canoe in the real world as part of an adventure. I'm okay with academic merit badges because someone will always want them. Fine. ... BUT ... Scouting advancement should be focused around outdoors, adventure and working together in a troop.

Agreed. I was discussing it recently. The example justifying scouts was that the average age of boundary waters visitors in 1969 was 26. Now, the average age is 45+. Youth need scouting to experience the outdoors and to learn the fun and excitement of skills that their parents lack.

@Eagledad is right. This is a repeated pattern. ... I'm not saying this is your situation. ... "Sometimes" scouters who are dis-empowered or voiceless or wanting more influence, sign up as a unit commissioner to get "perceived" as having extra influence / authority / connections. BUT, unit commissioners really have zero authority. They are supposed to be a wise, soft voice of an elder, experienced scouter. I'm not saying it's your situation, but it could be. UC is a district role ... not a unit role. UC has no right to attend committee meetings ... unless invited by the unit. UC has no right to be registered in the unit. Sometimes districts sign up current unit members as unit commissioners to get UC coverage in all the district units. This enables districts to look good, but adds zero value. If you feel strongly about it, it's okay to push back. You can let the scouter know that he can be an ASM or a committee member or a UC; but not multiple. Let the scouter know that If he wants to be a UC, then he won't be a committee member or ASM; ... and ... that he won't be on the troop internal leader communication list. ... IMHO, I wish I had the guts to do that in a volunteer org. I have no trouble at work, but in volunteering orgs it's harder. .... It's a good thing to have people cleanly defined in their titles.

We've been asserting this for years.

If the patrol flag is lost, get together with your friends and create a new one. It can be very fancy and professional ... or a simple craft project ... or a hand made cloth hung on a tree branch. It really depends on what you want as a patrol flag.

Some of my favorite memories are watching from a distance as my sons split wood with an ax. I'd be far away and nervous as heck, but it was very maturing for them. And confidence building.

It's a nice article. Hopefully, it's an uplifting story.

@Scoutmaster Teddy ... I'm not sure what you would do. I wish you the best though. Perhaps another council would welcome the help. IMHO, best method is to work thru your existing connections. @Tron ... I can conceive of other solutions. ... Commissioner service WAS fundamental 30+ years ago. Not anymore. Now, few attend roundtable as they get their resources online: training, schedules, contacts. ... Unit commissioner performance has always been hit and miss. ... Then add that councils have cost to support commissioners, such as expecting a paid staff member to attend roundtables. ... Then, add that many of our lives are busier as we've lost time to web, cell phones, etc. I can easily see a different path.

Is your council dropping commissioner service? I assume yes, but I wanted to explicitly ask.

We've been thru this.

We've been thru this. Views differ on the same facts. BSA had procedures in place before many others. BSA tracked and blocked many. BSA had training before many others. All of society is shamed. BSA is a scape goat being financially raided.

I view it as 31% (56,000 remaining from 82,000 claimed) as a payout of $3500 is nothing and the claims then are not really vetted or proved. I suspect there are so so many reasons that I don't like reading in reasons such as failing to destroy BSA. I suspect the number will continue to reduce, but perhaps not more than half the original.

It will be interesting to watch the numbers diminish. 31% of the claims went away without significant scrutiny.

Time for a dedicated volunteer corp. Linux is based on volunteer maintenance. BSA could do similar with leadership materials.

I have to speak up as I'm an opposing view. PDF documentation enable BSA to rapidly update documents and provide the documents free to the end-user. BSA should just partner with a printing company that then can print and ship on demand. It is wrong wrong to charge for materials that volunteers need to volunteer and have already paid their membership fees to volunteer. ... Maybe, BSA should charge for bigger books like the scout handbooks. Beyond that, we want BSA documentation to get into the hands of volunteers as fast and cheap as possible. We don't want people volunteering and avoiding reading / seeing the materials because they have to pay yet more yet again. My big fear is that BSA maintaining an inventory of printed materials is a cost that needs to be off-set in sales and membership fees. That creates a profit center that slows down keeping books up to date and creates a disincentive to make all the literature free as PDFs. PLUS ... Some materials already have high volunteer input / authorship. GTA? If this can be done with high quality, it should continue and grow. It feels wrong to charge for volunteer maintained documents. ... I love the GTA and G2SS being free as PDFs. IMHO, many more documents should follow that approach.

THANK YOU ! I love seeing how documents change over time. I've repeatedly compared versions of G2SS, GTA and rank requirements. It's extremely useful to understand how things evolve.

Agreed. Fundraising can mitigate the cost as it can in sports and other programs too. The cost discussion started because of asserting scouting is a good value compared to other programs like sports. Since those programs can also fundraise to reduce cost, the comparison is best done on raw cost. What is the family cost before it is reduce by unit fundraisers. I'd still argue scouting is a great program, but not necessarily cheaper at all. If your scout is active, it costs money.

Yep. When our first son started in 2000 (2001?), the cost was way way way less. I think registration for him was $12? Plus $5 for a year of Boy's Life? Plus, another $12 for the adult leader app? It was reasonable. Add a Tiger cub shirt and minor items; reasonable cost. Ten years ago when I had four sons and my wife and I were registered ... and active ... we were easily spending $5,000 a year. A high adventure a year. Four summer camps. Campouts every month for at least two kids. Activities. Uniforms. etc, etc. ... I can't imagine what the cost would be now.

Eagle application deadline is not when the scout turns 18. BSA Guide To Advancement; section 9.0.1.5. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf The scout has up to 24 months to complete the Eagle Board of Review; BSA GTA section 8.0.3.1. Assuming three months to schedule the EBOR, the Eagle application needs to be submitted within 21 months after the scout turns 18 ... but ... just turn in the Eagle application ASAP. The Eagle rank "REQUIREMENTS" must be completed before the scout turns 18; not the application. https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Eagle_Rank_Requirements_2018.pdf The key is the Eagle application is not a rank requirement. It's paperwork to get recognized as an Eagle.

I will challenge this one. If your scout is active, scouting has significant cost. If your scout and you are both involved, it's very significant. IMHO when both scout and parent are active in scouts, the cost is at least the same as most sports; if not more.

I hope this works too. Keep these camps teaching adventure to youth. It's too important to lose.

Well said though though I can easily flex on the "provider" view. I know many very feminine women who have strong professional careers earning good money and I know many very masculine men who daily wash dishes, do laundry, vacuum and bathe their kids. I agree though that we scare too many of our young men away from being masculine.

Sounds like a Charles Kuralt Sunday morning TV show.

Twice called to task for showing bad pictures? I agree it's extremely in appropriate, but what 1968 law would have applied? If we look back on 1960s as the era of free love and redefining society, there is way more to this story than can be read here. And it 100% misses the time and context. ... He was expelled when more came forward. Yeah, the system worked. Like so many case law examples, the incidents are ugly and don't show society at it's best. But, it seems to have worked. ... I agree I'd prefer the police were involved. BUT, that was society in the 1960s. I'm more upset with so many groups that kept not reporting even in the 1990s, 2000s and even the last few years.