Eagledad

>>You are aware that Japanese auto manufacturers get lots of support from their government don't you? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face

>>I love my Suburban. It's great for scout outings and my business. But I'm not sure I'll ever buy another one, because I don't want to subsidize the UAW.

Some parents just need to feel safe with the troop and if the adults at least look organized, that helps. But that is subjective. I have always felt our adults are organized, but since our program is boy led, some parents see our adults talking in a different room from the scouts as disorganized. What I found that concerned parents really want is some feeling that the troop has some kind of plan. Boy run is great on the play ground so long as the adults are watching, but what does it mean when if the adults go take a smoke break, so to speak. As been said already, parents dont understand what boy run means. And from my observation of hundreds of troops over the years, neither do more than 50% of troops. Probably less than that. So they compensate by having the adults always stand around in one way or another. You have to prove to visiting concerned adults that there is a method behind the madness. You have to convince them that you know what you are doing. What is your goal and how are you trying to get there. Whats the big deal with boys leading boys? I mean, what does it really do for their son. I find that Eagle Mills are very inviting for concerned parents because that is an adult run program and typically adult run programs look sharp, very organized and they look SAFE. Eagle mills have a goal, it is to get your son his Eagle, plain and simple. That is not are bad thing for the average concerned parent. Eagles are good, so why not. Boy run programs are more difficult because they look less organized and sloppier. The meetings appear more chaotic and louder. The adults can look sharp, but they seem distracted from the boys and appear less concerned, less safe. So you boy run folks better have you game face on. Why is boy run good for my son? What advantage is boy run over an Eagle Mill? Why is your troop a good choice? And practice a good answer for the Mighty Question that always seem to come up How quickly will my son get his Eagle in your Troop?. What I like about this forum is the number of folks with experience who have developed the wisdom of why. Learn the reason why your boy run troop is good for my son. Learn the Aims and Methods and practice how your program uses the methods to achieve the aims. Knowing the Aims and Methods shows that you arent just making it up as you go along, you are following a plan that Troops have been following for years. Once you have a vision of my son as an adult based from your scouting program, then you can explain why the appearance of chaos in a boy run program is superior over the sharp looking organized Eagle Mill. I use to tell concerned parents that our program is preparing their son for the tough choices they have to mke when they are 30 years old. Oh, and let me add that I agree that the program has to have adventure. Not just for the older guys, but all the scouts. If its fun, they will come. I can think to two mothers who did not like our troop because it didnt sharp enough for them. They both wanted the Merit Badge Mills troop down the street, but their sons insisted they join our troop because it look like a lot more fun. Both boys became Eagles in our troop, and both mothers became committee chairs protecting our boy run program. Great discussion. Im sorry I ran off with the key board again. But I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Beavaher is right, have the scouts start attending the Troop as if they belong in the Troop. We did this a lot and it is no big deal. Do not have them fill out a troop application because if it some how gets turned in, the scout will not get his AOL. In fact I would kindly ask the pack turn in all the scouts paperwork as soon as possible to prevent any confusion. Typically they wait until the Ceremony, but you might offer to help. If you can tell, I've had to help clean up a lot messes in this area. Barry

OK, I'm not savy on this subject, what is twitter? Barry

>>One complaint I get on this is that, with two SPL's a year only one of them gets to plan a Calendar, the other one only gets to carry out the other ones agenda - That MAY be why your Troop does it the way they do.?

>>In my eyes, this is nuts. The PLC has decided to plan a campout to recruit Webelos in October, but the Troop will not even be able to provide the new scouts & parents with a calendar of upcoming events, because the calendar has not even been planed.

Its not a YP problem, but my son is a school teacher and they are instructed to not be a friend or have a friend with any students. I'm not sure why. I do know that Facebook has legal rights (or something like that) to everything put on Facebook pages. Barry

We have two ASPLs and both are responsible for program. They alternate every other month to lead the planning and leadership of all the troop activities. Barry

Everyone are right on and gave excellent advice. I only add that I spent a little more time on character and leadership during my confrences because that is the expectation of Boy Scout. I gave more focus on character during my Star confrence and little more time on Leadership during my Life Confrence. My reasoning was that I held Star Scouts and higher ranks to a higher level performance living of the Scout Law and Oath. The Life Scout is closer to Eagle and generally the older scout with a lot more Leadership Responsiibility. Barry

>>My advice is to run it past the local Fire Marshall, as Hal said. If you're really that gutsy and confident, invite him to one of the ceremonies and surprise him.

Boy that is a tough one. I tried to kill such a Troop (with the blessing of the DE) in our District when I was District Membership chairman. It had long and bad reputation of terrible leadership. I also had concerns of safety and bad examples of role modeling (adultery among the leaders). Our goal was to kill it long enough to clean its reputation then start it back up with a fresh new CO and committee. Our problem is that this is the oldest Troop (real old) in the area and a few of the committee members (real old) were scouts in the troop during its hey day. They would rather have a bad program than see the troop of their memories die. Because of that, they accept anyone willing to SM there worn out troop to keep it alive, and they have had many bad SMs. I think I wrote of the beer incident? That was about ten years ago, but the boney fingers of the old guard hold tight and the troop still survives. There must be a reason for these units to stay alive because they wont die. Barry

I will stand up and brag that Ive done the ceremony many times. I wont get into the details about safety, we did an extensive job to be safe. A person would be at more risk slicing potatos for dinner. The mix splattering on folks is impossible, at least the way we did it. I will say that I found indoors better than outdoors because we could control the elements a lot better. You all go ahead talk down something of which you have no experience, but this is a discussion on safety. Oh I understand folks being afraid of what they dont understand. Lots of troops dont allow the uses of axes, hatchets or even saws. As I said before, to learn safety, you have to practice it. You cant just talk you way around it. We asked the experts and they found the ceremony safe provided we used a few safety procedures. Like anything, do it right and you will do it safely. Barry

>>Our derby is this Sunday and I've been asked to help check-in cars. Does anyone have a template "check-in" sheet which includes all these "cheat factors" to look for? I'd love to use one so that there is consistency in the process. Thanks.

>>Whenever possible let the Scouts handle the safety. I have found that if I can wait just a little longer than I normally would to put a stop to something a Scout will. The difference is that when a Scout tells a another Scout that what they are doing or about to do is stupid he only has to say it once.

Our troop has about two miles that we four times a year. Our town even put up sign with our Troop number giving us credit for that street. I used that activity to get younger scouts some leadership practice. Beary

In the old days this would not have been and issue new scouts lerned their skills from their patrol mates. And we have to understand the difference between advancement and learning skills. As other have said, he needs to hang with his friends and enjoy the parts of scouting his friends bragged about. I'm sure they will be glad to teach the skills their friend needs to enjoy the program. Barry

>>This type of camp program puts the onus on the Scoutmaster to just say no.

I'm with Narraticong, boys dream of this stuff, help them make the dreams real. I think this is a great idea I wished I would have thought of. Some folks look at bows as tools, then there are those who only see weapons. So let the scouts carve the bows and then take the group to a range to learn safety and shoot their hand made bows and satisfy the can't do folks. I like the idea of teaching a little history and learning how to make strings as well. This could be a great project. Good Job Barry

One of my first Eagles was deaf. It doesn't take long for everyone to think of him as normal and treat him that way. You forget he is deaf until someone new in the troop meets him. Evmori has great advice as he always does. Your scout is just like all the boys with the same dreams, attitudes, boy problems and behaviors. In fact, our scout tried to used his deafness to his advantage. Its seems that sometimes he didn't hear the instructions, if you know what I mean. The parents of our deaf scout were so proud that I did his Eagle Scoutmaster Confrence at his home so his parent could watch. I know that is unusual, but it was something special for them. You won't need mom very long. Barry

>>Boys do stupid things and adults should be ever vigilant to any and all situations,

I dont think it really matters whether you use an SPL or PL, the goal at this point of time is to develop a patrol method type program. As Eamonn said, that is a challenge on its own. I suggest that all the scouts and all the adults involved get the Patrol Leaders Handbook. That gives everyone a guideline toward where they should be going, and how to get there. I also suggest that the adults, at least the SM, get the SPL Handbook for himself and the youth leader so they can work together under the same guidelines. These books are a quick read and very clear. They are enough to point the program in a direction that everyone agrees. See, the biggest problem at this time is getting a grasp of the ultimate goal. What is the purpose of all this work? If everyone has a different goal like Eagle or character or leader, then the group will struggle. It is probably a good time to start with review BSAs Vision and Missions statement and then follow that with Aim and Methods. Even the SPL Handbook talks about those goals and methods, so everyone should get acquainted with them to have one path to work toward. Let the SPL and PL Handbook guide the program as best as it can be followed by such young scouts. If either the scouts or the adults have some question about how to do something, they can sit down together and refer to those to guides. Likely it will have some advice. I also find that scouts this young wear out pretty quickly, so I like the idea of four month elections the first year just to give the boys a break. Depending on how much responsibility the adults really give the boys will depend on how fast the fatigue. One very important bit of advice is that an 11 year old should have all the same responsibilities of a 16 year old. Just not as much. In other words, dont ignore a part of the program because the boys dont seem mature enough to do them. Build the program you want five years from now. Again the SPL and PL handbooks are the source. I know a SM who waited until his scouts were 14 before letting them run PLCs. When handed them over, they didnt have clue what to do and it took about year to get it under control. And 11 year old can run a PLC meeting, but his experience and maturity must be taken into consideration. Also, no matter the situation, the adults should never takeover leadership of the scouts. Instead the adults need to ask for permission to say a few words or explain something. The SM should never stand with the SPL or PL while they are talking but instead behind the scout to show his respect for the scouts authority. That keeps the authority on the scouts. In our troop, the adults never put up the sign first, they wait for the scouts to put it up, then follow in support. It can be very trying for the adults, but eventually it works ouytIts just another way for the adults to remember not to take over. Yes, there will be some chaos at first, but that is how we learn. Finally, even though this group may have plenty of funds, I find that fund raising to aquire all the troop equipment is an excellent way to bond. Working hard together is the best team builder I can think of for both the scouts and the adults. Good luck, the results from building a successful troop are quite rewarding. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

My dad's Scoutmaster didn't go with them on many campouts. They would tell the SM about their experiences at the next Troop meeting and he would then discuss with them how to do the things they did wrong differently the next time. That was during WWII and their SM couldn't go out of necessity. But I wonder if that should have been the norm. Now of course my dads troop never camped any farther away than they were willing to hike out of Laurel Mississippi. Still, I'm sure it was an adventure. Barry

I stayed away from the troop for six months while the new scoutmaster got his feet under him. It was the hardest six months of my life. As much as that job enhanced my life and gave me the ability to give so much of myself, I could probably never scoutmaster again because of that six months. I love that scouting stuff. Barry

>>I am talking about "bragging rights" which can be lost when bested. The events I described are posted on a big white board for all to see.