Eagledad

We've had patrols of 6 to 12 scouts depending on their stage of recruiting and loosing scouts for many years. We've had just two or three scouts Patrols on a campout many times and they do fine with food. I don't remember the causes, but we've had a patrol of one a couple times and those scout not only did fine, they did great. Your parents just dont understand how important team building is for a patrol. Team building takes time (months) to build a pride of brotherhood and trust. Even if it is just two scouts, they are holding the patrol pride together everytime the troop is assembled. T

>> Having a Star Ranked PL of the NSP take the boys to Philmont is kinda dumb.>the Star-ranked PL of the NSP could turn the PL reins over to another scout and he would continue on as TG for the NSP, training the new PL and be eligible for the Philmont contingent> Maybe when the Star-ranked TG returns from Philmont he'll be able to return to the patrol and work at getting all his NSP buddies up to first class so that in a year or two they too can go.

>>Notice how the word patrol can be completely omitted from the discussion? Notice how the leadership responsibilities of a big trip are shifted off the boys and onto the adults? >"Our troop creates a temporary crew or patrol for each special activity like going to Philmont, Canada or snow skiing." This happens when patrols don't organize their own independent activities. This is how troop-method units operate. The patrols are broken up for convenience sake.

>>As long as there are standards and/or requirements, someone must be charged with maintaining them. In Scouting, it's the Scoutmaster.

Stosh, you lost me. Other than that you guys restrict patrol size, the rest of you post doesnt seem to address the subject. Im glad your SPL said no to paintball, but isnt that what he is supposed to do? BrentAllen, I was the Scoutmaster of a troop of 90 scouts. About 40 percent of the troop was 14 and older and we average about three high adventure trips a years. We also take the Troop of 40 to 60 scouts on many campouts that require several smaller groups to function. But that is easy for a troop because its made of patrols. Size just never came up as an issue for outdoor activities.

>>A gate keeper implies failure and I suppose it depends on what you mean by failure

>> Our patrols are limited to 8 boys max. There are very few instances where a limit is placed lower than that. Troop-method scouting will always have problems with size limits, patrol-method won't.

Great story, thanks. I found the struggle for me was finding an approach that worked for each individual scout. Each of us is inspired differently, which is why I think scoutmasters have to be creative to do a good job. And its kind of funny, I heard more than once a good Scoutmasters talk about himself as the bad cop in a good-cop bad-cop scenario. I think it is a very humble statement. Good job MattR I love this scouting stuff. Barry

First off, that sounds like a really cool Camporee. I wish we lived closer. I can't remember what they call it, but the rule is to have a least three people. At least two adults or two scouts. I think this will count as an activity and not an outing. A solution is have two adults walk around together to check on the events. Hang around for a couple minutes then walk to the next. That way the scouts are doing the boy run thing without adult supervision and the adults are doing their check, but not staying long enough to take away the boy run expereince. Everyone gets what they want a

>>Sort of a chicken/egg situation, depending on whose perspective you start from.

>>With the wisdom of hindsight: I would have separated into two hiking groups. My first choice would be one with just youths hiking and one with just adult hiking. Then pick points on the trail for rendezvous (at the ravine, a trail intersection, campsite). If that ratio didn't work (because the parents cried foul) pick one or two of the faster and quieter adults to go with the youths.

>>A Scoutmaster should have known long before that point that the Scout had some areas in which to improve.

>>Scout Spirit requirements, Scoutmaster Conferences, and Boards of Review are designed to keep a Boy Scout Troop adult-run. They are a flat rejection of Baden-Powell.

While I hold the highest respect for Lisabob in scouting matters, I kind of feel this situation is one step past that point of her advice. I would suggest SeaGull99 read her sons scout handbook on the requirements for the Star rank. Then I suggest she call the CC to set up a meeting over coffee (at her home if you wish) with both the CC and the SM to discuss the situation. Don't wait for a yes or no, but instead give them the choice of two times to choose from. When you meet, in a very kind voice just go strait into it and read the requirements out of the book. Then in a kind voice, ask for th

Thanks for your thoughts Beav, we are ok. The tornado took and interesting path that went 1 mile west of my mother, a half mile north of my sister, 2 miles west or my house and just a couple blocks from my mother in-law. In fact the picture on the front page of the Daily Oklahoman news paper this morning, showing all the downed power lines as far as you can see, is by my mother in-laws neighborhood. I drove through the storm last night to bring my mother in law to our home until she got power back. By the looks of the damage, I thought she would be staying with us at least a couple days, but a

Yes, we went from 12 first year scouts to 40 total in one year as well. I agree that it is very challenging. Barry

I had 16 Webelos and divided them up into two groups. Made the meetings better because we would have to activities going on at each meeting and have the groups switch after 20 or 30 minutes. Keeps the boys busy. I would suggest two 1.5 hour meetings a month because it is really challenging to plan a meeting with 2 groups without feeling hurried. You can easily fill the hour and half. The one day off a month lets you recharge your batteries and do more planning. I had it easy selecting the two groups because my scouts came from two Bear Dens. But I would suggest that you first have them pi

>>If the boys start out together (NSP) and stay together, then when they become 14 (presumably at roughly the same time), their patrol can become a venture patrol, and they maintain thier unity.

>>It would seem that after three years they really weren't interested in the program/advancement and were in it just to hang out.

Well looking at it in this context, I think I served the parents. I know I could care less about the CO. I use to tell parents that my job was to help better equipe their son for the day when he gets up in the morning to find his wife too sick to get out of bed, their babies crying to be fed, and his boss calling to find out why he wasn't at work. Barry

>>I think when the PLC gets ready for our next annual planning conference, I will suggest each PL ask each patrol member to think about what would be their best trip ever to go on, and suggest that. I don't think we've ever phrased the question in that manner. I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

>>Senior scouts that have to go to the same summer camp they have for 5 times earlier just because their numbers are unable to out-vote the troop will simply drop out of the program..

>>We all survived the evening without any DT's.

There are some minor risk involved that are being presented here, but if you know of some churches that want a troop and possibly expanding the scouting program, I would go for it. I been involved in few of these things and if the DE thinks it is a good idea, it is very likely the right thing to do. In my experiences, threatening to leave was a wake up call to the CO and they changed their attitude toward the scout units. BArry

Maybe I had some control about adult behavior, but I have personally only asked three adults to get out. Each case was a different circumstance, but I acted in each case because I felt the boys were in danger. For alcohol problems, I have asked two parents, one cub and one boy scout, to not volunteer for any unit activities. Both parents got professional help after. I did not suggest it. I know of one SM ask by council to leave scouting after he was caught offering a beer to a scout. That comes under stupid people tricks to me. But, as the District Membership Chairman, I suggested the Tr