Eagledad

Interesting discussion: As I grew with our program, my vision of developing character was always the same, but my methods of Scoutmastering changed. While I trusted at the beginning with the concept that scouting is a game with a purpose, my experience confirmed that scouting REALLY IS a game with a purpose. The game is the easy part because boys by nature will strive for adventure where ever they are. The purpose is the hard part. Maybe Im more anal about developing character than most, but my nature is also measuring performance and making changes to improve. I will say I failed a lot, so I have a lot of experience in how not to as well as how to reach the goals of building character in a camping club type youth program. As I was learning from my humbling failures, I developed ideals that helped me steer the program toward a game with a purpose. Ideals like: -The troop is an arena where scouts practice the Scout Law and Oath. -A troop is the real world scaled down to a boys size. -Boys learn almost everything by watching and doing and almost nothing by listening. -If a boy has to sit and listen, than likely the troop program is doing it wrong. Needing a JLT class became a red flag that we needed to change something. -If what a boy does in the troop doesnt contribute toward practicing some value of character, it doesnt belong in the program. From wearing a uniform to tying a square knot, the scout should be practicing a character value. -To learn something, a person must practice that something. Character is a culmination of knowledge and experience. Each balances the other. -Never say no to a scout. Let the scout pursue it to the end so he can learn why. A troop has to be action oriented as apposed to lecture oriented to develop character. I personally believe that leadership development is one of the best ways for a boy to practice character skills because the intensity of controlling the group is fastest method for him to learn his weaknesses. However, I learned that most leadership skills are learned by age 14 by observing the older scout role models in action. As I said, I was anal about developing character, but I also learned that the more simple the program, the better is was in becoming a Game with a Purpose. To me the developers of the scouting program basically had it right and that we seem to make it harder on ourselves as we added rules, policies, regulations and classes. I am somewhat comfortable that if the adults strive to have an outdoor program and follow the basic plan laid out for them by the BSA, they will have a pretty good character development program as well. Even some of the Eagle Mills have good qualities in their program, they just dont have the impact of a boy run program. Good discussion. Barry

>>Eagledad said that they tried the letter writing method. I think that would be good for one group of older scouts, but for my tigers that would not work. They may be too young and it would possibly take too long to complette the task.

>>Would 4H use push-ups? Debate club? Science club? Student forum? Do public schools? No!

Beav, your troop sounds so much the troop you visited when I was SM. May I suggest you throw in the idea that your scouts learn how to camp light. We went this way to get rid of one of our trailers. Everyone just needs to start using back packing gear. It sounds like something the scouts would hate, but in reality the scouts loved it and the adults hated it. In fact, the adults still brought a lot of gear. As for new parents, I wanted them to come to the first campout because it use that whole weekend to show them a boy run program. No mistery, this is what your son will do every campout. And, this is the campout were every new scout and adult took their totin Chit training from the scouts. The only adults who attended where the adults in training. If that doesn't impress boy run to the parents, nothing will. Barry

>>If you make a scout sit-out an activity as a form of punishemnt, are you not embarrassing them? You are denying them the opportunity to participate.

>>And don't talk about Obama and the Democrats. This was all done under the Bush Corporate Welfare Program. As Beavah noted. Obama's just stuck cleaning up the mess.

>>You are aware that Japanese auto manufacturers get lots of support from their government don't you? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face

>>I love my Suburban. It's great for scout outings and my business. But I'm not sure I'll ever buy another one, because I don't want to subsidize the UAW.

Some parents just need to feel safe with the troop and if the adults at least look organized, that helps. But that is subjective. I have always felt our adults are organized, but since our program is boy led, some parents see our adults talking in a different room from the scouts as disorganized. What I found that concerned parents really want is some feeling that the troop has some kind of plan. Boy run is great on the play ground so long as the adults are watching, but what does it mean when if the adults go take a smoke break, so to speak. As been said already, parents dont understand what boy run means. And from my observation of hundreds of troops over the years, neither do more than 50% of troops. Probably less than that. So they compensate by having the adults always stand around in one way or another. You have to prove to visiting concerned adults that there is a method behind the madness. You have to convince them that you know what you are doing. What is your goal and how are you trying to get there. Whats the big deal with boys leading boys? I mean, what does it really do for their son. I find that Eagle Mills are very inviting for concerned parents because that is an adult run program and typically adult run programs look sharp, very organized and they look SAFE. Eagle mills have a goal, it is to get your son his Eagle, plain and simple. That is not are bad thing for the average concerned parent. Eagles are good, so why not. Boy run programs are more difficult because they look less organized and sloppier. The meetings appear more chaotic and louder. The adults can look sharp, but they seem distracted from the boys and appear less concerned, less safe. So you boy run folks better have you game face on. Why is boy run good for my son? What advantage is boy run over an Eagle Mill? Why is your troop a good choice? And practice a good answer for the Mighty Question that always seem to come up How quickly will my son get his Eagle in your Troop?. What I like about this forum is the number of folks with experience who have developed the wisdom of why. Learn the reason why your boy run troop is good for my son. Learn the Aims and Methods and practice how your program uses the methods to achieve the aims. Knowing the Aims and Methods shows that you arent just making it up as you go along, you are following a plan that Troops have been following for years. Once you have a vision of my son as an adult based from your scouting program, then you can explain why the appearance of chaos in a boy run program is superior over the sharp looking organized Eagle Mill. I use to tell concerned parents that our program is preparing their son for the tough choices they have to mke when they are 30 years old. Oh, and let me add that I agree that the program has to have adventure. Not just for the older guys, but all the scouts. If its fun, they will come. I can think to two mothers who did not like our troop because it didnt sharp enough for them. They both wanted the Merit Badge Mills troop down the street, but their sons insisted they join our troop because it look like a lot more fun. Both boys became Eagles in our troop, and both mothers became committee chairs protecting our boy run program. Great discussion. Im sorry I ran off with the key board again. But I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Beavaher is right, have the scouts start attending the Troop as if they belong in the Troop. We did this a lot and it is no big deal. Do not have them fill out a troop application because if it some how gets turned in, the scout will not get his AOL. In fact I would kindly ask the pack turn in all the scouts paperwork as soon as possible to prevent any confusion. Typically they wait until the Ceremony, but you might offer to help. If you can tell, I've had to help clean up a lot messes in this area. Barry

OK, I'm not savy on this subject, what is twitter? Barry

>>One complaint I get on this is that, with two SPL's a year only one of them gets to plan a Calendar, the other one only gets to carry out the other ones agenda - That MAY be why your Troop does it the way they do.?

>>In my eyes, this is nuts. The PLC has decided to plan a campout to recruit Webelos in October, but the Troop will not even be able to provide the new scouts & parents with a calendar of upcoming events, because the calendar has not even been planed.

Its not a YP problem, but my son is a school teacher and they are instructed to not be a friend or have a friend with any students. I'm not sure why. I do know that Facebook has legal rights (or something like that) to everything put on Facebook pages. Barry

We have two ASPLs and both are responsible for program. They alternate every other month to lead the planning and leadership of all the troop activities. Barry

Everyone are right on and gave excellent advice. I only add that I spent a little more time on character and leadership during my confrences because that is the expectation of Boy Scout. I gave more focus on character during my Star confrence and little more time on Leadership during my Life Confrence. My reasoning was that I held Star Scouts and higher ranks to a higher level performance living of the Scout Law and Oath. The Life Scout is closer to Eagle and generally the older scout with a lot more Leadership Responsiibility. Barry

>>My advice is to run it past the local Fire Marshall, as Hal said. If you're really that gutsy and confident, invite him to one of the ceremonies and surprise him.

Boy that is a tough one. I tried to kill such a Troop (with the blessing of the DE) in our District when I was District Membership chairman. It had long and bad reputation of terrible leadership. I also had concerns of safety and bad examples of role modeling (adultery among the leaders). Our goal was to kill it long enough to clean its reputation then start it back up with a fresh new CO and committee. Our problem is that this is the oldest Troop (real old) in the area and a few of the committee members (real old) were scouts in the troop during its hey day. They would rather have a bad program than see the troop of their memories die. Because of that, they accept anyone willing to SM there worn out troop to keep it alive, and they have had many bad SMs. I think I wrote of the beer incident? That was about ten years ago, but the boney fingers of the old guard hold tight and the troop still survives. There must be a reason for these units to stay alive because they wont die. Barry

I will stand up and brag that Ive done the ceremony many times. I wont get into the details about safety, we did an extensive job to be safe. A person would be at more risk slicing potatos for dinner. The mix splattering on folks is impossible, at least the way we did it. I will say that I found indoors better than outdoors because we could control the elements a lot better. You all go ahead talk down something of which you have no experience, but this is a discussion on safety. Oh I understand folks being afraid of what they dont understand. Lots of troops dont allow the uses of axes, hatchets or even saws. As I said before, to learn safety, you have to practice it. You cant just talk you way around it. We asked the experts and they found the ceremony safe provided we used a few safety procedures. Like anything, do it right and you will do it safely. Barry

>>Our derby is this Sunday and I've been asked to help check-in cars. Does anyone have a template "check-in" sheet which includes all these "cheat factors" to look for? I'd love to use one so that there is consistency in the process. Thanks.

>>Whenever possible let the Scouts handle the safety. I have found that if I can wait just a little longer than I normally would to put a stop to something a Scout will. The difference is that when a Scout tells a another Scout that what they are doing or about to do is stupid he only has to say it once.

Our troop has about two miles that we four times a year. Our town even put up sign with our Troop number giving us credit for that street. I used that activity to get younger scouts some leadership practice. Beary

In the old days this would not have been and issue new scouts lerned their skills from their patrol mates. And we have to understand the difference between advancement and learning skills. As other have said, he needs to hang with his friends and enjoy the parts of scouting his friends bragged about. I'm sure they will be glad to teach the skills their friend needs to enjoy the program. Barry

>>This type of camp program puts the onus on the Scoutmaster to just say no.

I'm with Narraticong, boys dream of this stuff, help them make the dreams real. I think this is a great idea I wished I would have thought of. Some folks look at bows as tools, then there are those who only see weapons. So let the scouts carve the bows and then take the group to a range to learn safety and shoot their hand made bows and satisfy the can't do folks. I like the idea of teaching a little history and learning how to make strings as well. This could be a great project. Good Job Barry