Eagledad

I wish I had better wisdom in this, but I think the short of it is that it won't end until someone gets in his face and/or you get this guy away from you. Been there and done that. In fact I lost a troop to this guy. Looking back on it, the only resolution between us was separation. Logically I'm with the Beavaher in that the elder statesmen needs to have a word with this guy and keep having words until something changes. He is who he is and you need a larger force to counter him. There is another part of me that likes the suggestion of pushing him to take on the Venture Crew and getting out of your way. My experience with a couple these guys is that not much will change until you get this guy away from your program. If he is the kind of person I think he is, he will jump at the chance to raise himself into the bright lights. The Venture Crew will start well from his energy to prove himself, but not his great leadership. As his enthusiasm wanes, so will the Crew program, but these kind of folks are generally open to new leadership at that point. Good luck with this because I know it can eat you up. Don't let him take away loving this scouting stuff from you. Barry

I remember once talking with a DE about the challenges of his job. He explained that volunteer organizations like scouting tend to get a lot of bosses because many volunteers dont have any training or experience in leadership or group management to understand the difference. He said something like; its little people doing big peoples jobs with little peoples skills. I think everyone of us know of somebody unqualified that takes on the leadership role more to push their own personal agenda (ego) than to help boys. Probably human nature, but like Eamonn, I cant imagine telling adults when they have to go to bed. If they can't treat adults like adults, how can they possbilty treat the boys any better? But then I look at lights out as the time to respect those sleeping, not the time to go to sleep. I enjoy the site of two scouts staying up late looking at stars and whispering among themselves. My dilemma would be deciding whether to join them or stay away so as not to risk spoiling their experience. Barry

Foil dinners are an easy one pot meal that each scout can customize for their own taste. Barry

I've been to several camps and none of them had very good pathfinder type programs, so I can understand that. This camp may be different and have a fantastic pathfinder program, but I fully agree with gwd-scouter that the bigger issue is that by not hanging with the other scouts in her troop, it could be a lonely boring week for this scout. Barry

>>And I always thought the folks wanted me along because of my conversational repartee and sparkling personality

>>The moment the south seceded from America, they ceased to be Americans and their flag became a symbol of the rebellion. We should honor it as we would any enemy nation's flag.

We also get up around 7:00am, but I always try and make sure someone like gwd-scouter comes along to make sure the coffee is ready. God bless those early risers. Barry

>>If a tent is still quiet after 5 minutes or so, they usually get a personal wake-up. It's awful hard to keep sleeping with a bugle being blasted two feet from your ear. I don't recall ever having someone sleep-in past a personal bugle call.

This is one of those interesting little topics where I unexpectedly learn something new about folks on this forum I hadn't realized before. Adult run has a whole new meaning. Barry

Non cotton socks will solve most of the blister and comfort problems. They will keep the feel cooler and dryer, which is the major cause of blisters. As for keeping them clean, well that is generally up to the his tent mate. Barry

You wrote that at 4:00 am gwd-scouter. You are officially a Master Scouter. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

I learned that there are some Type A folks who can handle two jobs and do them well. I was not one of them and they wore me out just watching them. I like the CM/ADL suggestion. Also, what may happen is the adult who takes on the job of assisting you at the den level may just take on the whole job of Den Leader. That is if you are willing to let them. Sounds like you folks have a fun pack. Barry

>>She asked if I had taken woodbadge (Mrs. X had), I told her no. She acted like I was a second rate scouter because I don't have this training. I ran circles around Mrs. X and her woodbadge training, if she was an example of what woodbadge teaches I would never take the course.

>>I've never had to "fire" a parent before. A couple have had the grace to quit before it came to that. I have been in the position of dismissing a Scout from the troop. I intentionally did not bring up the idea of transferring to another troop. If a boy's behavior warrants dismissal from our unit, I'm not going to foist him on the guy down the road. In this situation,

I've never seen it in our district. Not that it isn't done, we have 33 packs and I certainly have not attended even half of those packs' Pack meetings. But it isn't typical. Barry

You said it all for our troop. They love night capture the flag. They also do flashlight wars and so on. And it wears off that little extra energy that some of the scouts still have. This is usually after campfire of course. Have your SPL assign someone else to lead it and let him go to bed. He won't sleep though. Barry

Hey, it doesn't matter the situation or the past of anyone, tere is an unwritten standard code of conduct we all should expect from each other. Its that simple. If someone crosses that line, then there needs to be a meeting with that person to help them understand. If that person doesn't agree, then nip the problem in the bud and keep them from causing the problem again. Trust me, it is not worth putting up with this kind of stress and abuse just to hold on to a leader. Barry

>>Laws and rules are created to control actions. As a Scoutmaster I feel greater success when Scouts and leaders act appropriately because they understand it is the right thing to do. If they only do it because "it is a rule", then many will look for a way to get around the rule. Instead, let's lead by example, and if we do a good, honest job, others will follow. As specifically relates to cell phones, we curmudgeons need to accept that they are part of life today. I don't care if someone brings one along, or even uses it. But every tool we bring along needs to be used appropriately. The PLC, working with the Scoutmaster, determines what is appropriate.

Excellent! You threw that together pretty fast. So I guess you explain under the Gate Keeper part that there should be a scoutmaster signature when they first see the scout's card? Our council uses white cards and the SM only has one place to sign, so that was a problem area with us. Many of our SMs assumed they were the last to sign, not the first. I can't remember the reference for that, but I think it is important because it is abused so much by MB Camporees and Summer Camp. Barry

>>The district will be putting on a Merit Badge counselor training next week, and I will be there along with 6 other counselors I have recently recruited. We are getting there.

Interesting comment Buffalo Skipper. I try to impress on new scout leaders that adults in boy run troops work harder than adults in adult run troops because they work with each individually instead, not a group or mob. Its one thing to tell all the scouts at once that they must wear a full uniform. It is quite another guiding each scout individually to understand the value of wearing a full uniform. The irony of what I just said is that I also think the good Scoutmasters of boy run programs look like they are the laziest Scoutmaster because they never stand in front of the scouts. Barry

Gotta agree, its the PL's and SPLs responsibilitiy to find drivers, assign seats and make sure everyone is in the car. The only time we ever left a scout behind (Philmont) was when the new SM told the SPL that he had already checked the cars. Problem was he really didn't know who was assigned to what car. He never did that again. Barry

My oppologies Lisabob. Barry

Yes, I think you did OK. You don't want to control his ambition, but instead guide it toward growth. Never ever get in the way of a boys dreams. I saw in our local paper a new 13 year old Eagle Scout who is much the same way. He was not pushed by his family or troop to advance so quickly, he is just smart, ambitious and likes that kind of stuff. There is nothing wrong with that kind of passion. In fact it should be used to your advantage. I tried to steer such scouts in a direction to prepare them for the immediate skill they needed like you are doing; cooking, camping, swimming and so on. Let him choose the badges, but make sure he is doing personal growth badges as well and let him know you are his biggest cheer leader as he goes. Typically these scouts are also ambitious with leadership and struggle a little with maturity because they push themselves before they are ready. That will slow them down just a bit, but at the same time he will follow your guidance very closely. If you do it right, you will have him as a great role model until he is 18. Barry

>>I don't think it is the scout as much as the parents that can't let go. I also think that parents are say things to their kids that we as leaders are not aware of. Last year a kid was told by his parents that they would come and get him if he wanted to come home.