Eagledad

>>She asked if I had taken woodbadge (Mrs. X had), I told her no. She acted like I was a second rate scouter because I don't have this training. I ran circles around Mrs. X and her woodbadge training, if she was an example of what woodbadge teaches I would never take the course.

>>I've never had to "fire" a parent before. A couple have had the grace to quit before it came to that. I have been in the position of dismissing a Scout from the troop. I intentionally did not bring up the idea of transferring to another troop. If a boy's behavior warrants dismissal from our unit, I'm not going to foist him on the guy down the road. In this situation,

I've never seen it in our district. Not that it isn't done, we have 33 packs and I certainly have not attended even half of those packs' Pack meetings. But it isn't typical. Barry

You said it all for our troop. They love night capture the flag. They also do flashlight wars and so on. And it wears off that little extra energy that some of the scouts still have. This is usually after campfire of course. Have your SPL assign someone else to lead it and let him go to bed. He won't sleep though. Barry

Hey, it doesn't matter the situation or the past of anyone, tere is an unwritten standard code of conduct we all should expect from each other. Its that simple. If someone crosses that line, then there needs to be a meeting with that person to help them understand. If that person doesn't agree, then nip the problem in the bud and keep them from causing the problem again. Trust me, it is not worth putting up with this kind of stress and abuse just to hold on to a leader. Barry

>>Laws and rules are created to control actions. As a Scoutmaster I feel greater success when Scouts and leaders act appropriately because they understand it is the right thing to do. If they only do it because "it is a rule", then many will look for a way to get around the rule. Instead, let's lead by example, and if we do a good, honest job, others will follow. As specifically relates to cell phones, we curmudgeons need to accept that they are part of life today. I don't care if someone brings one along, or even uses it. But every tool we bring along needs to be used appropriately. The PLC, working with the Scoutmaster, determines what is appropriate.

Excellent! You threw that together pretty fast. So I guess you explain under the Gate Keeper part that there should be a scoutmaster signature when they first see the scout's card? Our council uses white cards and the SM only has one place to sign, so that was a problem area with us. Many of our SMs assumed they were the last to sign, not the first. I can't remember the reference for that, but I think it is important because it is abused so much by MB Camporees and Summer Camp. Barry

>>The district will be putting on a Merit Badge counselor training next week, and I will be there along with 6 other counselors I have recently recruited. We are getting there.

Interesting comment Buffalo Skipper. I try to impress on new scout leaders that adults in boy run troops work harder than adults in adult run troops because they work with each individually instead, not a group or mob. Its one thing to tell all the scouts at once that they must wear a full uniform. It is quite another guiding each scout individually to understand the value of wearing a full uniform. The irony of what I just said is that I also think the good Scoutmasters of boy run programs look like they are the laziest Scoutmaster because they never stand in front of the scouts. Barry

Gotta agree, its the PL's and SPLs responsibilitiy to find drivers, assign seats and make sure everyone is in the car. The only time we ever left a scout behind (Philmont) was when the new SM told the SPL that he had already checked the cars. Problem was he really didn't know who was assigned to what car. He never did that again. Barry

My oppologies Lisabob. Barry

Yes, I think you did OK. You don't want to control his ambition, but instead guide it toward growth. Never ever get in the way of a boys dreams. I saw in our local paper a new 13 year old Eagle Scout who is much the same way. He was not pushed by his family or troop to advance so quickly, he is just smart, ambitious and likes that kind of stuff. There is nothing wrong with that kind of passion. In fact it should be used to your advantage. I tried to steer such scouts in a direction to prepare them for the immediate skill they needed like you are doing; cooking, camping, swimming and so on. Let him choose the badges, but make sure he is doing personal growth badges as well and let him know you are his biggest cheer leader as he goes. Typically these scouts are also ambitious with leadership and struggle a little with maturity because they push themselves before they are ready. That will slow them down just a bit, but at the same time he will follow your guidance very closely. If you do it right, you will have him as a great role model until he is 18. Barry

>>I don't think it is the scout as much as the parents that can't let go. I also think that parents are say things to their kids that we as leaders are not aware of. Last year a kid was told by his parents that they would come and get him if he wanted to come home.

Very very cool. Barry

Units take lesson from the district and this kind of activity teaches the units really bad habits. I found this out when we cancelled our Disrict MB Fair one year. We suddenly found that many troops use only summer camp and the MB Fair as their full year advancement program. With the idea that advancement is the units responsibility and the district should only set good examples, ask them how they expect the unit follow the BSA guidelines that a scout is supposed to ask the SM for a list of counselors, then fill out the MB card, get the card signed by the SM, then call the counselor to set up meetings with the counselor, and attend those meetings with another scout? Also ask them how the scouts contract the counselors to complete the requirements after the camporee is over? If they come up with a camporee that does all that, and gives each unit a list of all the counselors in the course to use after the camporee, it might actually teach the troops better proceedures. Otherwise I would run. Barry

I think the old WB course curriculum is better for teaching scouts leadership skills while the new course is better for the adults side of the program because it teaches unit management skills. I really like the new course for the adults, but I will agree with Lisabob that it doesnt do a good job of teaching adults how to work with scouts. The old course did do a better job there. I disagree with vol_scouter that the old course was a skills teaching course, at least in scouts skills. I can understand why he and many other folks think that way, but the designers of the old course originally expected its participants to know the scouts skills. They used scout skills teaching demonstrations as a method of showing different teaching styles to use for teaching the scouts. I think this is what is missing is a major difference between the two courses. I agree with John in KC that we are struggling with the Discovery part of the program. Well said John. However I wonder if we can really bring that back. Im starting to believe more and more that we as a whole have come to expect that adults only need the knowledge gained from BSA adult leadership courses to run a successful unit and can ignore tradition, experience and old time wisdom to be a good leader. More than all my BSA adult leader training and advice from my UC, it was my scouting experience as a youth that gave me direction to guiding our troop. Every troop in our district that started with Wood Badge trained adults who had no experience of scouting as a youth took twice as long getting their feet under them than new troops with non Wood Badge trained adults who were scouts as a youth. That makes sense to me, but many folks really struggle with that fact. After reading the post about adults requiring scouts take a buddy with them to the latrine because of the adults fears of sexual predators, Im not sure they could really ever use the tool of discovery even if they did understand how it worked. The American culture may just have found its limits to adults letting scouts learn by discovery. Isnt that what Lisabob keeps writting about with her son's experiences with their adults? I expect some of those adults are WB trained. Maybe BSA really does mean Babysitters of America. Barry

Your heart was in the right place and that is what is most important. I've done enough of these things to understand the haunting quiet of reflecting back on those heat of the moment decisions. There are a lot of could ofs, would ofs, and should ofs in response to the situation, but you will eventually just have to chock it down as a lesson learned for the next time. Its really that simple, we will do better next time. After a couple of years of wishing I could have a mulligans when dealing with scouts, I started to unerstand that I am only human and the best I can do is just try and not repeat the same mistakes. What ever happens at your Pinewood derby next year Pack15nissan, I'm sure it will be better than this year. One little suggestion from my experiences; don't add more rules, just do it better. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Wow, these are some great memories. The temperature of the first day of my first campout was a humid 80 degrees. An Ice storm came that night followed by 6 inches of snow. We were so unprepared for it that we broke camp at day break. I will never forget the SPL getting everyone up and telling us not to eat the yellow snow. The adults in our troop were big on wilderness survival and wanted us to learn how kill, clean and cook game. So I experienced cleaning and cooking a 400 lb hog, turkeys, and chickens. While many here may find killing and cleaning animals hard, we found cooking to be the challenge. Our troop took second place at Camporee every year. We could never beat troop 84. That was back when Camporees were serious business. Great subject. Barry

>>No dispensing with buddies to go to the bathroom no way no how. This is not a lost issue it is a youth protection issue you can read that leader protection issue if you want.

>>How do other troops use their ASPLs? Do you use multiple ones? Do they run program and supervise positions/have duties explicitly for them? I think if we put our ASPLs to work, we could better prepare them for being SPL next elections and hone their skills.

Our troop was dropped off about mile from camp to hike the rest of the way. During the hike, the troop hiked apon a simulated single car wreck the older scouts had set up. The spent a couple weeks learning how to make simulated wounds and had a lot of fun setting it all up. Barry

You take the knife away from the scout? Would you take the knife away from one of your ASMs? It just me, but I believe boys are't going to start acting like adults until we treat them like adults. Barry

>>I think it is a silly custom. Teach the boys how to safely use a tool. When they use it improperly I correct them. If they abuse it then I admonish them and remove the weapon. I've never asked for a card.

>>Are you claiming that the true source of morality is the Christian faith? If so then you are denigrating all the other faith traditions.

>>Don't really care what the Bible says, since it's not my religious book. "Because the Bible says so" is not a persuasive argument to me.