Eagledad

I would council the SPL to build the best team possible and then help advise him on what he comes up with from that. Rank and advancement should not be of any concern to him because that doesn't help him or his team. As to a Web Master, I only suggest getting your needs taken care of. If you need a good Web Master, go for it, our troop 90 scouts had two. But they worked hard and were better leaders after the experience. My objective with and kind of leadership responsibility was that the scout grew from the experience. I feel that every leadership opportunity should be a stepping stone toward eventually becoming a SPL, or even a SM. Most of our SPLs were really good leaders by the time they got that job. For me, SPL was the next step in learning how to delegate resposibilities and manage new ideas into the whole troop program. You need scouts who have a lot of experience at quality leadership responsibilities to do that. This is really good stuff and a great learning experience for you. I hope you are enjoying it. Barry

Remember your main goal is building men of character. I think you should shift your thinking that PORs are for developing better decision makers through the practice of using leadership skills. They are not to advance a scout's stature. Yes, I know they need it for advancement, but once you start down that trail, its hard to get back, especially with the parents. Scouts should have to earn the respect of leadership so they are chosen to lead, not given it to get another badge. I also think you are risking becoming a trophie kind of program. Create PORs when they are needed and get rid of them when they aren't. I find that SPLs are actually better at that than adults because they like to manage as small as team as they can, where as adults tend to think advancement. Here is what I did, I would ask the SPL to assign small temporary duties to the younger scouts to give them experience in leadership responsibilities, and exposure so that they may get elected or picked for a POR. These duties were something like a leader for the Scouting For Food drive. I assigned an adult to assist them in planning the event, presenting it to the PLC at a PLC meeting, making announcements at a troop meeting and then leading the activity. That is a good one because it isn't really a demanding position and we dont really change the way we did it the year before, so the other scouts kind of already know what is going on. So while it is challenging practice in planning and leading for a newer scout, it isnt overwhelming. Typically, I also try to assign a fairly new adult to the adult position so that I can guide them to how adults work in a boy run program. I also think scouts need to prove themselves in patrol duties like cheer master or grub master. I think you will find there are plenty of opportunities for scouts to build a reputation so that they can get a POR and move on. And, doing it that way, you will find those scouts who really want to advance as apposed to the ones just kind of riding along. They need to earn the right to lead. In the long run, your youth leadership team will be much better because they will be respected as leaders, not as the next guy in line needing a sign off a requirement. Good luck, these are fun times for a troop. Barry

We are dealing with the fear of the fear. I have a sister inlaw that work for one of the banks that took the hit, but she saw it coming a year ago. Other then that, most folks we know want to spend money but are unsure because the media keeps saying harder times are a head. I need to replace an old car or consider just a new motorcycle but I can't get comfortable about doing those because of the threat the worse is yet to come. Barry

I would approach it just like adamsdwa listed with doing Lisabobs advise in adamsdwa #1 item. Also keep in mind that scouting is great for boys until the adults get involved. Barry

>>You know, if the Mormon Church wanted to exert a positive influence on this topic......

>>My question is: What do you do with the older boys like me that still want to be active in leadership, but have a job where they can't be at everything and don't want to be in a regular patrol?

Touche Kudu Barry

>>Those children will starve if they are waiting for the Pro-life groups to sweep in and offer to take care of them.

>>In an adult-led program, mixing and matching of patrols may be the traditional course of action, but when it's boy-led and they are making the decisions as to patrol membership, that is not possible.

>>All government can do is make the decision even more difficult and more expensive.

>>Sorry, I just can't get my mind around how scouts can mutiny against their own program? Maybe the question should be: "Is it Okay for boys to take back their program after adults have shanghaied it?"

>>That'll be about 40 boys, most of whom are 11 or 12 years of age. I have only four boys older than that.

>>Why not just take that one boy that IS interested and make him TG/Instructor and quit contriving scenerios that the boys are totally not interested in.

>>I find the NSP boys progress in requirement learning faster than the mixed patrols because they are all focused on the same interests.

It is the next best thing to just putting them in regular patrols as soon as they join like SMT224 does. The only reason I used NSPs was when we had a lot more new scouts then the regular patrols could handle. I found that more than two new scouts per patrol messed up the patrol dynamics unless there was a lot of older scouts in the patrol. We tried a lot variations with NSPs and merging them into other patrols after summer camp worked best. If you wait longer, their growth slows down a lot because they don't have good role models in the patrol for them to learn from. Barry

>>In a slightly-related note, I was a little PO'd that my (then) Tenderfoot son didn't take the opportunity to clear 2C and 1C swimming requirements when he was at camp last summer. In fact, he didn't even try the swimtest, and was labeled a non-swimmer.

>>Back to the tiger in full run -- 30 emails, lost track of # text messages -- in need of snorkle for a breath -- STOSH if the light comes on HOLD ON. It is wonderful and scary to see boys I have know since cubs evolve. Just doing the have you? type list they said yep, yep, yep, here are minutes and other info. My mouth is still open. Now they are talking about a back trip to Cloud Peak as a big trip. Cloud Peak! So glad they picked one of the hardest treks - maybe they can just bury me there. I have moved to the hall of irrevelency ahhh to the hall of just enjoy.

>>He removed the government from the abortion decision. That's what his constituents want. Government out of the reproductive decision making process.,, That is like saying that Obaman didn't flood the fields by opening the dams, the water did. Barry

Interesting, since I have not heard Rush's exact words and you have, what exactly did he say, and how do you think he should have said them? Barry

So how did the meeting go? Barry

Well based from that information, I would just find a place in the agenda and start down your list all the way to the part where the SM replaced you and ask them to justify why you should stay. Doesnt sound like your adults are a team anymore. What does your Charter say about all this? Will the rep be at the meeting? Is your DE any good and can you get them at the meeting? You need some outside witnesses that arent emotionally intimidated for balance. I hate these things. Scouting is great until the adults get involved. Barry

I asked the Venture question because I dont understand why you brought it up. I assume that when the scouts went to Venture, they left the troop? What I meant with the committee agenda was trying to learn the purpose of the meeting. It sounds like it is just a monthly meeting, not a special meeting to deal with the problems. Im still trying to see the problem that you see. You dont like the way the Scoutmaster is leading the program, but what are the concerns? Are a lot of scouts leaving the troop and is recruiting a problem? Are they very many other adults who see these problems or is it mainly you? OK, looking at the few facts that you give me, I will only assume that your perspective is correct. We dont have two sides here, so this is risky. But here is what I do when I help units with these same problems. First, you need to call the CC and get put on the agenda for this specific topic. Call it what you want, concerns of the program, concerns of adults, whatever you want, but you dont want to just pop up between officer reports and next months fund raiser with a loaded cannon that may bring the meeting to a screeching halt. Being put on the agenda item shows that you have been thinking about this. Next, you need to list your items of concern and run them through your mind so that you can explain yourself clearly. Trust me that if you dont, the stuttering and confusion of looking for your words makes you come off looking angry. It shouldnt take you more than five minutes to fully list your concerns. If you want to mention names, thats OK, but generally that has folks on the defense, which complicates meetings. It works better if you can speak of the problems of the group. We are failing because of this and WE are not reaching our goals because. Make sure you begin your talk with the One Mission that the adults are supposed to be driving toward. Most units dont even have a mission, but since you do, the next step is identify what the adults are NOT doing toward the mission. Your talk should have two small list: The first is the areas of the program you see struggling. The second is a list of reasons causing the problems. Be brief and clear. You dont want to overwhelm the committee, just present the situation quickly and simple. Let questions give you openings to explain your concerns in more detail. Dont put people on the defense if you can because you dont want to waste everyones time debating, arguing and defending yourself. The objective of your talk is to alert everyone to the problems and the repercussions if they dont change. Finally, you need to have a plan of action in your back pocket. Something simple and something understandable. Finally, you need to understand most folks do not want to be combative, AND, and this is very important, Most people resist change. Most folks would rather take the easier route even if it isnt the better program if the change looks hard. So you need to be persuasive and be willing to be the strong leader to lead the changes. If you go in the meeting looking for a new leader, likely nothing will happen. If you dont think yourself strong enough to be the leader of change, then find a strong leader who agrees with you and be the strong voice for that leader. But dont go in looking for change without any ideas for change and without any passion. You need a new Alpha leader. Be calm, but firm. Dont ever raise your voice and dont get in a debate. Not in this meeting anyway. Worst case scenario is suggest leading another meeting to sort this out, but dont let the meeting end with nothing changing. Like I said, this is all base from our perspective. Good Luck Barry

Lets fill in some blanks: What is your part in this? How many scouts in the Troop? How many of the scouts want the Venture and why? Why do you think the venture is an issue? What are the agenda items of the committe meeting? Who is the alpha leader, by that I mean who is the one person that will get their way with the the adults? Finally, I understand the goals you listed, but is there any one vision or mission that all the adults could quote? Barry

>>Jblake47, I acknowledge your point about the pioneers, but I look at it from the view of recycling.

When I was a young scout, we were taught not to eat the yellow snow, not to face into the wind when taking care of certain bodily functions, and dig our latrines 50 ft away. Back then we never camped anywhere that had built latrines or bathrooms and so each patrol dug its own latrine. We once asked out Patrol Leader why 50feet. He said because 50 feet is too close in the summer and too far in the winter. It seemed a good compromised distance. We had really good Patrol Leaders back then. I dont remember talking about which direction to face the door. Im not sure it mattered, our tents didnt have floors, so the breeze came from all directions. Those were great character developing experiences. Barry