Eagledad

Lots of good stuff here. I wanted to support a couple things mentioned. First, the parents have got to know their sons behavior in your troop. My scouts learned quickly that whether the news was good or bad, the parents got a report of their behavior after outings. It wasn't hard for me, I enjoy bragging to parents about their sons after outings. Once in a while the news wasn't so good. While I think it is our job to judge behavior (good or bad), we are not expected to implement change ourselves. The parents are a part of your team and usually they do a really good job without you

>>I think since the oath and law are usually only words to memorize and not necessarily applied in the actual methods of scouting- as is clearly evidenced in the Lisabob affair (bullying breaks about half of the scout laws and the oath), then really what the oath and law serve to do is sell scouting to mom and dad and the CO which is now usually a church.

>>Well for starters Barry, how about the Scouts assault on the US Army during practice manuvers?

>>The thought that Scouting was like the movie is just wrong.

>>I am a critic of BSA because I think BSA has lost its efficacy, its standing as a premier youth organization, and its reputation in communities around the nation. And I don't blame society- even though there is always blame to go around-

I am a firm believer and proponent of the BSAs mission to develop boys into men who make ethical decisions based from the Scout Law and Oath. In my own words I like to say that we develop citizens of character and leaders of integrity. I also believe that the when used correctly, the 3 Aims and 8 Methods are almost a genus system of reaching that mission. I know genus is a bold word, but I have watched the system repeatedly work so well that Im still amazed by it. That being said, we have had discussions and debates of the most important method and if methods should be applied equally. My

yes I agree, but a lot of is being taught to the adults stuff the scouts already know. Since most of what adults should be doing is teaching, guiding,and mentoring, might as well let the scouts practice on the adults. If you can gets your scouts to instruct at IOLS and the boys are willing, go for it. Barry

This is a really good question. The expectation of JASMs are different for every troop, but the primary objective is to give the scout challenges more along the lines of an ASM. When I was the Council JLT Chairman, we developed the JLTC (NYLT) staff position as JASM training because the scouts in that position spend a lot of time learning to teach course classes and skills for guiding the scouts during the course. It really was great training. I don't know if NYLT does as good, but I would start there. But, you got me wondering about the adult training classes and I think that is really a

>>Can a group bully itself? Yep, they do it all the time and it can happen in a boy-led program. It's called peer pressure and this as well can be both positive and negative.

>>We are kinda dweeby. Most of us don't see the need to adorn ourselfs with the manufacturer's logo to the point that we even get "Gold Wing" tattoos.

The best one I've seen is a cooking contest between each troops' adults combined for the meal that is served to the whole camp that evening. Interestingly barbequing whole pigs, roasting turkeys and creating out of this world stews keeps the adults pretty busy the whole day. If all the troops cook in one area, the adults get to know each other pretty good. Barry

>>You have it right ITS ME. When someone is given a directive to accomplish a task from the "higher ups" the only recourse many have is to simply bully. When the SM dictates to the SPL, who dictates to the PLC, who dictates to the PL, who dictates to his members, bullying is going to happen somewhere along the way.

>>Gotta stay with the thread. >Gotta stay with the thread.

yes,those are the same natural leaders who would earn the eagle if they were in scouts. Kathy is talking about the other 97%of the youth. Barry

sports is not boy led and it generally only develops natural leaders. Scouts done correctly is aleadership development program for all boys. Iwas also a coach while was a scout leader. Barry

aims and methods are what sets this program apart from the others. I can't think of another that is better or even equal. Sports & church youth groups don't develop the confidence & independence a good troop does. Barry

I'm. With GWD Scouter, you don't need to stay for your son or visa versa. The district needs you, the troop won't change without you. Go where your energy can help the most boys. Barry

Call your DE and ask for a couple numbers to Scoutmasters. Then call the SM and ask for a scout that will help you prepare for the campout. We typically ask a scout to volunteer to help a den get ready when they want to camp with our troop. It's a good fun learning experience for everyone and usually the scout and the Webelos leader bond really well. Barry

GREAT post Mike. Once the PLC starts working as a team as you described, bad behavior seems to almost disappear because the scouts learn to deal with it quickly before it turns into a problem. Barry

>>Did I do anything wrong?

>>Cubs seem to do better at focusing on a wide variety of different progams (Tiger -> Webelos) and not run amok. Why can't the BS program do the same thing?

>>Maybe the emphasis on accomplishment of certain measurements isn't the route to go. Is wearing the SPL patch the ultimate goal of leadership? Maybe the JASM is the ultimate goal of leadership. Only a few get to wear those.

Since the vast majority of older scouts dont get the Eagle, the BSA numbers never made sense. Even if Eagle was the base number, a 14 year old Eagle scout would skew any real numbers. Dont we really want to know how many scouts stay in the program to 17? And, those of us who have watched the process the BSA uses to track their rosters can honestly say they arent accurate enough to know anyway. That being said, if the discussion is really about fixing a problem, then the discussion first needs to understand where there is a problem. In general, the statistics for loosing scouts over the a

>>But please don't expect me to be a cheerleader for vanilla when I prefer chocolate, and don't dump assumptions on me that because I like chocolate that I think vanilla isn't as good.

>> Dah? Wake up here. This is why the JASM leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. It's the kiss of death that the brightest and best get saddled with.