Leaderboard

Thank you all for the input. We spoke with the camp and they will make sure that troops follow the proper procedure and that no one will have sole use over any portion of the facilities.

All good responses so far. I apologize for not including this phrase in my prior reply as I feel it is very important; others have hinted at it in their responses. I believe that Scouting done well is evidence of the truth of this statement. Not eveything that counts is measureable, and not everything that is measureable counts. (paraphrase of a quote often attributed to Einstein)

My apologies for not understanding This is a challenging time for young people. Politics and cultural extremisms are driving everyone to pick a side with no gray area. Life was simple when I was a scout, it was a little more complicated when I was leader, but nothing like now. My high school teacher son is very frustrated. He had a student commit suicide a few months ago. One of three in the past few years. The problem from his perspective is social media. Kids today get all their identity from social media and that puts them in a very volatile place to find themselves. One day socia

This is a camp problem, not a you problem. Echoing similar advice: Don't leave it to chance. Address it with them before committing to camp and then hold them to it. If they can't commit to making it a comfortable experience (facilities and experience/emotionally) then find a better option if you can.

Some other KPI (Key Performance Indicators) you may want to consider Number of Scouts lost on outings last quarter and actively found Number of Scouts lost on outings last quarter that you did not look for but who seemed to have turned up anyway Scouts left at gas / food stops last quarter while driving to or from outings Number of rain jackets forgotten at last outing with rain (can also be expressed as a percentage) Number of class A shirts misplace that seem to have magically been found Number of items "stolen" on an outing last quarter that were "found"

Adults are the worst enemy to patrol method. We apply our sensibilities and biases to a process that the youth see no issue with. Last campout we had 5 patrols. 1 patrol was two scouts. 1 patrol was four scouts. They had a great time, they cooked and enjoyed their meals and were happy to have only their own dishes to contend with. I subscribe completely the B-P's POV: "The patrol system is not one method in which Scouting can be carried on. It is the only method." There is another tenant of B-P I fully subscribe to: "My ideal camp is where everyone is cheery and busy, whe

That would be three separate menus/shopping/cooking/cleanup in our unit, so three patrols. 3 olders is enough for a "patrol."

IMHO every issue should be reviewed to confirm that. I do not think we should take comfort by saying, to paraphrase, "We have the best YP...". I would rather hear We are constantly reviewing our YP procedures policies and procedures by examining incident reports with YP experts. Here is a link to our YP Committee reports on actions for those incidents, including legal actions, and legislation lobbying. My $0.02,

I've also seen Girl-only Camporees. That really gets to me. Imagine if we had Boy-only Camporees these days. More than one person actually defended it by saying that all of them were Boy-only prior to girls joining. Seriously? I fully support girls being in the program - my daughter loves it. However, I insist that all events be open to boys and girls. To do so otherwise is an insult to the members of BSA who are excluded. Even our Catholic Camporee is open to everyone.

I'm curious, what is the latest traditional male gender role that is considered a threat? I'm one of those people who believe mixing females into the patrols puts the males at a disadvantage for personal growth, and possibly some harm by the adults. So, I struggle with the idea that girls are the ones at risk. I've seen way too much overhype on this forum to not be concerned for the boys. One poster was bragging just the other day about all the girl cubs on the podium after the derby races. What was the point of the statement? Were boys also on the podium? We don't know, but we can imagin

I'd be having a conversation with the Camp Director, now. Make it clear to them- you're open to THEIR suggestions on how to share the use of the latrine, but explain in exactly the terms you outline here why only having the outside facility is not acceptable. It's a true public health issue if you and your troop cannot wash hands at times during the day. And, you're troop is paying the same as that troop, so it is not acceptable to you. If moving that troop to adjoin another site that has a female troop is a better option, then let the camp do so.

Those are all great ideas. I'd add: Form an adult patrol. Act like a patrol. Make a yell. A flag. Camp apart. Have your own kitchen, just like theirs. Do your menu, just like they do. Have your own grubmaster. Plan your own patrol activities when it's patrol time. Set the example.

"We are so afraid of the kinds of dangers that are actually so rare that we are not allowing our children to prepare themselves for the bumps in the road of life. Then, later on they fall apart," Boston College Professor Peter Gray told WBZ-TV. "They are far better off if they have the kinds of experiences in which they learn how to judge danger themselves, how to solve their own problems, develop a certain degree of courage, learn how to deal with the small amounts of fear and anger that naturally arise in play....We've taken away a lot of recess, we've shortened the lunch hour so kids a

When my financial advisor found out I was a scout leader and taking other people's kids in my car and out camping, he recommended I carry umbrella liability insurance. I have done so for 30 years now. It is very reasonable in cost. You can be perfectly innocent and not at fault, but if you get sued or accused, it can cost you everything to defend yourself. Such is today's litigious society that feels if my kid gets hurt, SOMEONE has to pay, no matter the reason.

Salomon Rushdie spoke on 60 minutes regarding censorship. "There seems to be a kind of growing orthodoxy, particularly amongst young people, that censorship … is a good thing," Rushdie told correspondent Anderson Cooper. "The thing that's different now is that it's also coming from progressive voices," he said. "There are progressive voices saying that certain kinds of speech should be not permitted because it offends against this or that vulnerable group." Rushdie said that when speech is suppressed, the people who are first impacted are often minority groups. "To suppor

4/16/2024: Sixteen-year-old Emily Green, a first-generation Costa Rican American is a Eagle Scout. Her family came to this country with practically nothing, living in shelters, finally getting help from the Scouts. During the Report to the State, she addressed lawmakers at the Massachusetts State House. "Scouting has been instrumental in shaping my character and learning essential life skills. I started as a little girl, joining my brother, who's also an Eagle Scout, in his Scout troops. Then I joined a progressive co-ed troop and advanced through the ranks from a cub scout to Eagle

We solved the "3x the work" cooking issue by camping next to the parking lot and ordering out-by patrols, of course. Separate patrol checks. Scouts can't cook, but at least "Thrifty" is a work-in-progress.

Her argument is that is 3x the work. An ASM tried to explain to her that this is the process. This is how things get done. Cooking for 11 isn’t easy, or how it should be done.

Zack Gridley was diagnosed with Cerebral Palsy when he was just one year old after suffering from a double brain bleed shortly after birth. After years of developmental therapy Zack Gridley decided to join cub scouts in 2016. He's earned over 40 badges with Boy Scout Troop 55. "I would highly recommend because you get to develop a bond with people in your troop," Zack said. "Everyone helped me through this journey, and I worked very hard," Zack added. Zack's parents said though he received some accommodations on his journey, he mostly took on scout challenges on his own. "He

Please remember, the folks who pushed for the membership changes internally by your logic should have removed themselves, or been removed by BSA long before the membership changes happened.

I'm suggesting it's OK for adults to express reservations about membership changes online or in a Zoom meeting, provided it's done in a tactful manner. There is no need to "crack down" on them unless their comments target specific youth members or are deliberately hurtful. If you feel a youth in your area has been treated unfairly, by all means intervene on their behalf. Scouting would not exist in some communities today were it not for some of these "old school" scout leaders. Change takes time and I'm not sure you can get there by extinguishing dissent.

My favorite events are ones where I can just show up with my son and be a dad. I would gladly pay more in fees if it resulted in better, more frequent program opportunities at the council and district levels (unclear if that's the case). I'm a pretty frugal guy with a regular job and $165 doesn't seem that ridiculous by today's standards. Anyone else ashamed to admit what they spend on youth sports or their pets? 🙂

It sucks. I don’t mind, but I have a job where these fees aren’t hard for me to pay AND I already buy into the program. The hard part is when someone is new, when a person can’t really afford the fees, or when a unit doesn’t have the funds to pay for the adults. So, this really hinders growth since the growth comes at the margins, not from existing members. The $25 fee that is now gone, was a good example. “Let’s make it more expensive for new people, that will be a great way to get new people to sign up.” Sure. Great plan.

Well, in many cases it is subtle. You can't really address this or you are "not supportive", so there is no real alternative other than to be disgruntled. - We have seen at camp the female troops request, dare I say demand, that certain bath houses be "female only". Note these bathhouses are all setup with multiple locking single rooms in them, all open to the outside - There have been requests at camp for some activities to be female only at times (water skiing, climbing wall to name a few), yet the narrative is we are all Scouts, so why the request for special consideration?

@Armymutt, I think you'd agree it's like being in the military: The best thing about being in the military (or Scouts) is some of the people you get to work with. The worst thing about being in the military (or Scouts) is some of the people you get to work with. 😉 😉 😜 😜 😜

I’m glad you can air your grievances. My conservation: there is a great temptation among leaders of female troops to clear a zone for the girls. In my experience this is especially true for male leaders. We had one upset that our boys were fishing behind their girls tents. Well, when they weren’t girls tents, nobody made a fuss about where our boys were fishing. Heck, the previous year, with a different female troop, not only did they not complain their leaders were grateful that our boys treated them like fellow scouts. Needless to say the boys are frustrated about the mixed signals. And

Right. Signs can be moved. Schedules can be adjusted. Separate times scheduled and posted for youth/adult and female/male is good practice. That the troop was unable to accommodate male troop camping next to them speaks volumes of their leadership.

I"m sure this camp falls under a council. How about bringing it up to the council board. Just not going is good for your unit, but leaves the same problem that would fill your troop's week. How about identifying the troop to council and camp that took over the latrine. I'm more of the thinking Scouts can be courteous, but not a weak victim and just take it on the chin. Standing up for yourself and others is scout like too...brave? And to those leaders on the site (I hope they contribute) that condone taking over the latrine, you allowed Scouts to show an ugly side of shared camping and

I recently took a flight and as we approached the destination gate I heard something along the lines of "We know you have many choices when choosing carriers and thank you for choosing XXX airlines" The same is true of Scout camps. If the camp cannot at least make an attempt to correct the situation they should not be surprised if that unit does not return next year.

How can a troop over ride the camp director? Barry

And which part of the Scout Oath and Law makes it OK to make up your own rules when you don't like the ones you agreed to follow when you signed your membership application?

A Scout is Trustworthy. Full stop. That's my agenda--I'm not being secretive about it. I love the tortured logic to arrive at your conclusion though.

One of the kindest, most mature, and friendliest of my scouts made his arguments about why BSA should not have included girls to me and, I later learned, to scouts of mixed sexes in a merit badge class being led by a female camp staff. Exactly which cudgel should I have had BSA reign down upon him? Meanwhile I have had to help multiple female scouts stand firm against proper sexual harassment from scouts (or sometimes verbal abuse from scouters). They don’t want anyone to get hurt, they don’t think they’ll be believed, they think they led on, or they think it’s part of the job. It’s

What can we say, other than good for her. https://richmond.com/opinion/column/hanover-hypocrisy-book-censorship-girl-scout/article_ca2c06be-fde7-11ee-8aea-939bb71a3f14.html

She thinks that way because she didn’t have a scouting experience as a youth. Patrol method is only limited by adults fears. I used to teach a course teaching adults how to push their fears boundaries out. The adults need to ask themselves what it would take to let the patrols to cook on their own. I’m not a fan of no cooking, but some healthy easy to fix meals might help the adults grow in the program. Discussion? Barry

Awesome. I just wanted to get it out there. It feels better to be validated.

It is my understanding that yes it is. One would think they would keep the domain and just forward it to scouting.org forever. The lab coats aren't on scoutshop.org any longer. After I wrote the above, I realized that it used to be on beascout.org and isn't there. I used the waybackmachine to see that sometime between April 2022 and August, the option to search for STEM Scouts was removed.

Ah, just not a simple label. Now we see clearly? Remember, it is against the law to remove some labels, or so it is said. 🙄

"Heck, I'd even support liberals if they ever wanted to join scouting." Guess I will need to scan through this, but wanted to just note, perhaps already done, that being Liberal or Conservative or something between has nothing to do with someone having an interest in Scouting. I probably know more people that would be "labeled" as that than would be labeled otherwise, all of whom support the basic ideals of Scouting and strive to grow the newer generations.

So you do agree that those who believe that the current membership policies are wrong do have the right to speak up. Then why are you upset when they do so? Can you show me the results of the membership (emphasis) survey that had the majority support current membership policies, because I have been looking for years. All I can find is the non-member results, which did not include any BSA identifiable markers. Also why would BSA exclude a major segment of their membership from the polls? If I can find the screen capture of the poll, if you were in the Western Region, and chartered to

Absolutely, we tolerate those with those "views". What we do not tolerate is those who "act" against others in accordance with those views. What you are advocating is akin to being the "Thought Police." Not knowing the other specifics of the OP (that is, having only one version of the events), my pronouncement was simply that it was wrong of the person to use an open forum to vent his misgivings about membership policies. And, it was also a failure by the discussion moderators there to not steer that person into other territory. Zoom hosts can mute or boot anyone from a session.

The way I see it, when you register (or re-register) as an adult leader, you are agreeing to uphold the decisions and responsibilities mandated by the organization, regardless of your personal feelings. If you can't do that, then you leave the organization (like so many already have) and carry on with your life. No different from any other private membership organization. Yes, change takes time. But getting use to the change and refusing to are completely separate feelings. And in the eyes of the organization, they are going to move on with or without you.

I'm not sure that's a great example to pick, because when Tigers were added to the program, verbal or physical threats weren't made against those children by other scouts or adult leaders. I don't know why people think it's OK though when it's about girls. Protecting children shouldn't require discussion. It's not censure ship to expect that registered and trained youth leaders in a youth organization protect and support the youth in their care.

Boy Scout Troop 47's Mighty Duck Patrol all earn LIfe rank. Scout Salute! More at source: https://www.times-herald.com/arts_and_community/mighty-duck-patrol-simultaneously-reaches-rank-of-life-scout/image_1c3ab2d8-f2b8-11ee-893f-8f204c1509a5.html

One of the many reasons why my district and council are in trouble "old school Scouters" that left when membership changes occurred, and there was no one with the knowledge, skills, abilities, time, and treasure to take their place. They leaving left giants gaps that years later still have not been filled. Someone with 10, 20, 40, 60+ years experience in the program is extremely hard to replace. You got others who still disagree with the membership changes, and will tell you why they disagree with them. They remain involved for "their boys," and are slowly coming around.

So the boy units who have the exact same problem are left out again. There are lots of boy units who have the exact same problem, especially in the inner city, like Charlotte where that council is located. You would think that they would open it to all new troops. Might be a great way to get boys off the streets and into the woods.

I have to take back my outrage at that specific girls-only camporee. Just in case there was some additional context, I reached out to the organizer, and it turns out that the camporee is there to solve the problem of weak scoutcraft experience among both scouts and leaders. I had most of the facts, I just didn't put them together in a way to predict the problem because of my own scouting and family backpacking experience, including my current scouting involvement in a family pack with family dens where girls and boys learn the exact same scoutcraft skills, hike the same miles, set up the

Grand Rapids, MI: "What started as a group of less than 10 girls is, today, the second largest all-girls troop in the state with 43 in total.", Scoutmaster Kim Mast. Source: https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/local/grand-rapids-north/scoutmaster-leads-second-largest-all-girls-boy-scout-troop-in-state/69-997dd2c6-906a-4b6b-bf31-7a81665691e1

AwakeEnergy: I grant that your Pack clearly violated a Scout is Obedient. I remember learning something to the effect of "A Scout is obedient. A scout follows the rules of his family, school, troop, community, and country. If he deems a rule to be unfair or unjust, he tries to have them changed in orderly fashion rather than disobeying them." So, yes, your Pack violated Obedient--perhaps with sound rationale, but a violation nonetheless. Maybe we can add that to the list of the things the BSA should crack down on! I chose to emphasize Scout is Trustworthy because the ease at which people

I found self-organizing was key. Not right away but just ahead of the next elections we had "patrol re-org night". SPL announced "You are all released from your patrols!" They were given 30 minutes to "congeal" into new patrols. It was interesting. We started with 5 Patrols, we ended with 5 Patrols. Noone specified max/min Patrol size nor number of patrols - we just let it happen. I was worried about this as we have 5 patrol kits... so as much as I love the Patrol Method - sometimes practical considerations do play a part. As it turned out, the politics and awkwardness involved wi