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  1. The bankruptcy discussion is depressing me. So I have need to focus of good news, like last night. While I have been involved in Scouting as a Scouter for almost 30 years now, and have worked with I don't know how many Scouts over the years, last night was special. I sat on an EBOR for a Scout who was in my first Tiger Cub den back in the day. He is the second one in my den to make Eagle (the first being my oldest), and having watched him grow up I am really proud of him. Especially with the challenges at home he faced. This is a young man who will go far in life.
    10 points
  2. The SCOUTER.com virtual campfire has been lighting our community now for more than 25 years. It's hard for me to imagine that so much time has passed, and the thousands of Scouts and Scouters around the world that have learned and shared together. These are obviously incredibly trying times for Scouting and enormous transition for the organization. But I have always believed that the very best of Scouting was at the grassroots, found in the mentoring relationship of a leader and young Scout, honed on cold winter campouts and sharpened by the lessons of leadership and service. And these fo
    9 points
  3. I'll do my best to explain what I have seen in this thread, so hopefully I don't misconstrue the message. The one thing I would say about @ThenNow is that it does seem that he cares about the BSA and sees the value of the program. He has mentioned how impressed he is by what he sees from many of the comments .... volunteers who spend much if not most of their free time working to provide children an experience that is unique and provides life long value. That said, he was sexually abused in the worst way by his Scoutmaster. No one within the BSA prevented it or took action (as far as he ca
    7 points
  4. Scouting was never intended to be family oriented. Scouting was intended to allow youth to develop themselves on their own. It was designed to replace the gangs of Victorian and Edwardian England, and give them a direction and purpose that would make them better citizens. I have seen first hand what can happen with "family Scouting." It is not pretty, and Scouts will leave. They will get fed up by the constant parental interruptions at meetings and on camp outs. They will get fed up with the parents overruling their decisions on their program. They will get fed up with parents allowing th
    7 points
  5. The thing that has bothered and challenged me for a long time is that scouting where I live doesn't even look like our local high school or the local sports leagues, drama clubs, high school bands, etc. in terms of diversity of membership. I live in a pretty median mid-west suburb. If you go to the local high school you see a fair number of kids whose ethnicity is clearly Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian Sub continent, Hispanic, et al. But if you go to our district camporee the ethnicity is almost uniformly white. There's no reason to think there is any disparity between their parents in
    7 points
  6. It would be a whole lot easier to solve this problem if those deciding the value of eagle understood that eagle is nothing but a tool to achieve a higher goal. "So, your resume says you're an eagle scout. Tell me some stories of how that has taught you something useful." A nice, open question. If they talk about specific skills they've been tested on that tells the value of eagle to that applicant. If they talk about taking younger scouts under their wing and helping them out, it tells a very different value. As my son told me, eagle will get you another look, but it's not worth anything if yo
    6 points
  7. Just stepping in quickly on this topic as clearly this has tentacles into many aspects of the BSA. While the issues are complex and difficult to clearly communicate in a forum, no one here condones or blames the scouts/children that were abused. The abuse was horrific and has life long consequences. The abusers and anyone who did not act appropriately to protect the scouts/children should be held accountable. What is being debated is what legal/moral/financial liability the organization should have from this abuse. That is not an easy topic to debate given the nature of the crim
    5 points
  8. Maybe because I asked him to stay. So blame me. I'm Spartacus. RS
    5 points
  9. It's hard to decide where and how to jump back in to the discussion after the big slow. I think it's still better for everyone, especially the majority of claimants if some universal settlement is achieved. If settlement talks collapse, that really shuts out claimants from any state other than the current states with revival or extended SOL periods, which I believe is somewhere between six and twelves states depending on how you count things. Within those states, filing suits against the LCs will probably lead to bankruptcy proceedings for just about every council. It's true that f
    5 points
  10. Uh, no..... this is stealing the opportunity from the scouts to actually learn from doing the requirements for the merit badge. I am so tired of Merit badges that are just hand waved, Eagle projects that are just a bench, and positions of responsibilty where the scout doesn't actually do anything for six months. My scouts know that I am "a hard grader" but they also know that when I sign of on a requirement, they know it and are proud that they earned it. There are too many people that are awarded merit badges and ranks that they don't deserve.
    5 points
  11. You've nailed the attitude that I think is so counterproductive to ever resolving youth protection issues in scouting. There are too many who want to rationalize away the situation because they somehow believe scouting is somehow the victim or that the good that it does is worth the cost of the damage.
    5 points
  12. Wherever there are adults that can charm insecure youth, which includes all those places you mention above, there is abuse. That mindset is one ingredient to reduce abuse. Just like car safety, look at the FAA. If everyone dies on a plane the first thing they look for is the black box. Learning what exactly happened is another important ingredient. Rather than general, vague rules about safety, very specific rules based on known cases can address specific ways that failures occured. Next, there's an understanding of the paradox that zero failures is the goal and yet there are f
    5 points
  13. Sorry about that folks... we had some gremlins running wild in the server... should be resolved, and I will try to monitor more closely!
    5 points
  14. Each victim gets about 6k, the lawyers get about 5k, the perverts who committed these terrible acts go unpunished, and future generations of american youth are abused by being deprived of a scouting program. Yup, sounds like a real good solution to me.
    5 points
  15. I actually agree with you that in the BSA today, the CO is the organization responsible for the unit and they should be vetting leaders. They should be interviewing them, ensuring they are trained, etc. However, I expect that rarely happens. The problem is that many COs are barely present. In my area, 40% of COs are churches, 22% are PTOs (PTOs have been dropping units left/right), 20% are fraternal groups, 10% are "Friends of...", 8% are odd balls (barber shop, doctor's office, fire station, etc.). Many units struggle to find their COR to approve the adult leader application and re
    4 points
  16. It's hard to know where to start, but I I want to look at two ideas that I see as somewhat related. 1) that today's scouts are being punished and 2) that somehow these crimes are being judged too harshly because things were different then. My council owns two camps, one is over 100 years old and the other is over 50. Neither I nor my scouts are entitled to those camps by virtue of anything I or they have done. I've invested some time, treasure, and talent towards them in the last 20 years, but that's certainly only a small part of them. If I and my scouts are going to benefit from those
    4 points
  17. So I read through the new Plan, and the major differences from before are: An estimate of total abuse liability from $2.4 billion to $7.1 billion, prepared by Bates & White after analysis of a statistical sample of the abuse claims and comparison with "comparable" settlements and judgements The Trust Distribution Procedures, with a rough guide to how much different levels of abuse would relatively be worth, and a list of factors the Trustee might use of increase or decrease a particular claimant's payout The "Toggle Plan", under which neither COs nor LCs would pay in anyt
    4 points
  18. Until a decision is made about HA bases, legal status of LCs and an estimate of the abuse claims, the proposals and voting should stop. I'm surprised we are 14 months into this and we have yet to have a single court rule on these critical aspects of the bankruptcy.
    4 points
  19. The IVF existed because law enforcement had no such mechanism. If all BSA did was notify the police, any number of things could have happened, but none of them would have included registering these perpetrators nationally. At the time, the most likely lawsuit would have been from those ineligible volunteers who would sue for libel, should the list be made public. The thought of the FBI tracking a hundred thousand citizens KGB-style would not sit well with anyone in the 70s. That BSA undertook this, with great difficulty, on its own is a credit to its tenacity. It is also betrays a bit of
    4 points
  20. To me, all of these should be reported. Reporting shouldn't be reserved for actual crimes, it should be any violation. In EHS, we are expected to report "near misses". Those are then used to improve training & processes. The written communications is a great one. So many times, I receive an email from a scout directly to me with no one on the CC. I immediately respond to that scout + parent + leader and remind them to never email me without an adult. We use Troop Track as it automatically includes parents on all emails (so this only happens when they email me from their personal
    4 points
  21. Historically, the BSA added people to the IVF, at least some times, based on just a report that they were talking about starting a Scout unit, not only if they had already been registered. And it also added people to the IVF for conduct that had happened several years before. For example, I remember reading one file about a man who was the wintertime supervisor of the horse-tending program at D bar A Scout Ranch (Michigan) in the early '70s. In the early '80s, the local council got a letter from a now-man who accused him of drinking, drunk driving, giving alcohol to underage boys, and cer
    4 points
  22. Many kids do. Have you ever seen the Race to Nowhere documentary? Pretty tragic but it is the reality and is part of what is driving the push to Eagle at all costs in some regions.
    4 points
  23. This is off topic, but perhaps someone would give me a brief recap. I received my Eagle in 1975. It was not easy and there weren't many of us, or so it seemed. In the past 15+ (?) years has there been an escalation of "win the prize" orientation, driven by Units and parents? I had no particular push or encouragement from my parents, though our SM was keen to have his "first Eagle." As I said back there somewhere, it seems like it's become part of the, "Thou shalt build the college resume at all cost!" culture to me. I both understand and marginally despise it.
    4 points
  24. Thanks to Terry and his admins!
    4 points
  25. Seems to be fixed! Site it flying again! Thanks!
    4 points
  26. News release: Dateline April 1, 2021, Irving Texas.... The Boy Scouts of America in line with the ongoing simplification and re-organization announced the following Merit Badges would be merged, thus allowing the Scout to earn them easier and quicker: Pet care and Cooking. American Labor and Mining in Society. Family Life and Animal Science. Welding and Fire Safety.
    4 points
  27. Because of the confidential nature of mediation there should be little news of the proceedings the next three days. The TCC will be holding its April Town Hall on Thursday April 8th. I suspect there will be some discussion then to the extent possible. Remember, mediation has been on-going and will be continuing so while the next three days are more "intensive" they aren't the start or end of the process and confidentiality rules will continue. Town hall starts at 8PM on the 8th. Link is https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/84324072960   TCCBSA.COM for links to past meeting recordings.
    4 points
  28. I suspect there is no grand plan. Rather, there's chaos, just like there usually is. Another hunch is that for the bulk of councils, like mine, all of the property wealth is really a house of cards. Over the past couple of decades it's been spent. Certainly there are councils with money but it's not many. If my council can get silver jte then there are a lot of broke councils. Consider that the bsa declared bankruptcy when the assumed number of cases was in the small number of thousands, when the expected payout was in the few hundreds of millions. Maybe they're not playing bluff. Ma
    4 points
  29. I like having your perspective, so consider that an invite. Of course, the more any of us say, the more we find someone starkly opposed to it in whole or in part. But that's the point. Most of us put things out here because it prepares us to have cogent discussions with other scouts, scouters, and concerned community (and even victims of abuse) in real life.
    4 points
  30. I haven't read the full thread (work conference call in a few minutes) but an observation from here in the UK. I run a coed troop and a few years ago we had a joint meeting with the Girl Guide troop who use our building. And sure enough some of my boys started acting up in just the way you describe. And this was inspite of them all already having girls in their patrols and the troop more widely. In addition the both in scouts and guides were girls they went to school with. My observation is the problem isn't girls as such. The problem is girls in an unfamiliar situation. Put the girl
    4 points
  31. I apparently didn't handle it well. My kids suffered because I did not have as much time for them as I devoted to other kids. I was determined not to give them preferential treatment because they were mine and in retrospect was actually harder on them than I was on other kids. They also could never have a day off because if I had to be there, they had to be there although I did miss some critical moments in their lives outside of scouting because I had to be at the scout event while they were elsewhere. This created some resentment towards scouting on my part. Further, if I was trying to be n
    4 points
  32. I hope you keep working your ticket! It is worth figuring out how to get done within your new situation. I really dislike the coed troop idea. At first, I was very upset at the BSA. After I have worked more and more with our girl troop, I see the reason why the BSA decided not to go co-ed. The Scouts take more risks when not around our boys troop. They speak up more, they laugh more, and they lead more. They have fund playing 9 square etc. with the boy troop, but really come back and learn about leadership when outside of the earshot of the boys.
    3 points
  33. I do wish the BSA was working more directly with the TCC, but I see this as BSA attempting to get all of the payers (LCs, insurance companies, COs and National) to pull together a settlement offer. On the other side of this is really the TCC & FCR who are likely working on detailed expectations of what they think the National BSA, LCs, COs and insurance companies should pay. This will be a negotiation back & forth. I'm just happy to see that we have finally seen an offer from the insurance companies (understanding it probably isn't high enough for an agreement yet). The reddit
    3 points
  34. Sounds like the making of a fun game. First, teach everyone how to send and receive the gps data in a photo. Next, play some sort of tracking game. The "fox" has to send images/gps info to the "hounds" every 5 minutes. The hounds try to run the fox up a tree while the fox just tries to get away.
    3 points
  35. As I understand it, the amount that the claimant could get if they took their case individually though settlement or a jury verdict, on the merits of that case alone, not limited by the amounts due all other claimants. So for example, consider the following pleading by a claimant lawyer who posted the exact same document twice to the docket (once for each of his two clients; although maybe he has others who weren't on board with this particular motion), and appears to be working from a template that was shared among multiple claimant lawyers: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/c
    3 points
  36. Yes it is good to get away from politics and focus on what is important. (Ignorance is truly bliss.) While camping in the snow and cold last weekend, a group of my younger boys, who have been storming with each other for nearly 2 years, actually had a civil conversation with each other while warming up in the trailer. They were telling each other stories of an even colder campout they experienced 15 months ago. They went back to storming the next morning, but I see hope that the norming stage is coming soon.
    3 points
  37. IMO, the Eagle brand took a huge hit a long time ago for a variety of reasons. PC culture in elite colleges appeared to be using it as a strike against instead of for the applicants. Standards seemed to be lowered in merit badges, projects, etc. in order to increase the success rate. I personally would still be inclined to give an Eagle Scout the chance to prove him/herself to me even with otherwise marginal qualifications but that's just me and it's honestly a bit of sentiment. Outside forces have been attacking and attempting to dismember Scouting for their own reasons but I felt
    3 points
  38. Anyone who completed the Boy Scout program from 11 to 17 has a valid right to express his opinions on scouting.
    3 points
  39. There’s always a variant ... most years we just aren’t bothered. My pandemic guy gets on a call with his buddies, and they pull a mix from their war chest that they think will match whatever’s spreading around. We tease him badly if he’s wrong. He tries harder the next year. It’s the highest-stakes gamble on the planet. Pediatric trials are starting. Meanwhile get your scouts out camping. We’ll know by autumn if a vaccine for the youngn’s does more good than harm.
    3 points
  40. I think we've got to stop focusing on one thing. The IV files are just one symptom of a dysfunctional organization. There are a dozen things going wrong.
    3 points
  41. For starters, if our Leaders actually followed YPT we would be in a much better position. Youth protection requires two deep leadership. I've seen Eagle car washes and project days with NO adult leadership. Our District is aware but they don't say anything. No one on one contact with Scouts. I've seen leaders give Scouts rides home in their car ALONE. Leaders are not supposed to drink alcohol on trips. They do, and in fact I know a Leader with a DWI who still drinks on camping trips. All written communication from a Scout should have another adult copied. A lot of
    3 points
  42. Just for some perspective, the TCC's professional fees were approximately 11% at the time of the Judge's comments. Whether any amount is seen as reasonable or not is up to opinion, the comparison of the TCC's fees to that of the BSA is important to understand.
    3 points
  43. I split the Eagle brand discussion to here from the old, now locked, Chapter 11 - announced topic. RS @MattR @John-in-KC
    3 points
  44. It is interesting. Have to be careful though, National has a reputation of using research to justify changes that they wanted to implement before the research was started. Barry
    3 points
  45. Maybe you switch to a location where you can get weather radar. I think you'd earlier compared lightning deaths to things like biking, dog bites, etc. One difference with lightning is the possibility of mass casualties. Death or injury by dog or bike generally involves one person; a lightning strike under the wrong conditions can kill or injure multiple people. BSA is not alone in having guidelines. They are pretty standard throughout most outdoors related organizations and activities. It is a good point about not trying to run somewhere once the storm is near. By then it's too late. K
    3 points
  46. Naw. The producers of these shows want the audience to be rooting for at least one of the contestants to survive.
    3 points
  47. Even I have to admit that practicing their marksmanship skills with live torpedoes might have been slightly over-the-top.
    3 points
  48. Yeah. I've seen that. We left a troop because of how another leader was treating my son's friend when it was really that the leader did not like the dad. It was their way to get rid of the dad. It damaged the son. Still makes me screaming mad today. An absolutely great comment. Scouting is supposed to be one part of a rich childhood. For us adult volunteers, we often get pulled in deep and it takes a lot of our personal time. I wonder if we could apply an analogy here. Supposed you and your wife talked about being extremely tight with money all the time when the k
    3 points
  49. Let's try and get this back on topic: the new territories plan and tangentially how to staff it. It's not about tenting regs and yp. I believe there are other threads on that topic. I looked at the territory map and noticed that mine is bigger than an old area. It goes from Mexico to Canada. I'd hate having to do meetings there. Anyway, I assume it's by population. This territory is probably the leader when it comes to small troops.
    3 points
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