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Son has green light for tonight.

If my troop had parents and siblings dropping in I would stop going to stuff. I’m in scouts for many things but mostly to get away from family and be on my own. I see my family all the time. Scouts was the one place I didn’t see them. And my dad was scoutmaster. I hardly saw him at all. I never knew how hard he tried to give me space until reading this thread. Thanks dad!

I am hoping 'Family Scouting' was just a poorly chosen phrase then a program change like when I said "Quality Control" and stepped on a land-mine.

Cub Scouts is a family oriented program. Boy Scouts is NOT a family oriented program. If parents want to join in Boy Scout activities then get trained, become an ASM and help out. Otherwise, stay home and let your boy enjoy his time with his friends, learn from others and experience interaction with adults he's not related to. I am beginning to think "Family Scouting" is just code for giving hopelessly addicted helicopter/lawnmower/bulldozer/drone parents an excuse to fulfill their compulsion for control.

Let me get this straight. We are supposed to be doing the patrol method. How do parents and siblings fit into the patrol method? In my humble opinion, they don't. And then, what's the purpose of a parent/sibling patrol that hangs around 300' away? Is that purpose useful? In my humble opinion, no. My main concern with this whole mixed bag thingy is that it might work when one has an adult run, troop program. Then at least mom can wash the dishes and pick up camp while the boys run around doing nothing but getting into trouble someplace else. I've tried to be open on this whol

Please stop arguing over who did what or who said what and just discuss the issues.

That’s how I worked. Yes, they eventually caught on. Barry

'Thorns and Roses' is always a good campout wrap up--you can get some pretty good raw feedback. Our PLC is always right after the monthly campout and the boy leadership can give their views as well. I really liked someone on here who used "Thorns, Roses, and Buds" -- the Bud representing encouraging signs or opportunities.

I, for one, joined a troop, and was assigned a patrol. It happened to be the same one of the scout who recruited me (best scout I ever met, aged out at 2nd class rank). it was an excellent patrol IMHO. But, its name was not on the youth application for membership. It's flag was not posted beside the US flag at meetings. Nor was it carried in parades. PL's reported their attendance to the SPL, and SPL reported their attendance to the SM or CD with no mention of patrol names. When I was up first staring at ashes, my SPL didn't tell me to wake my PL, he show

It used to be parents were de facto MBCs ... back when counselor lists were suggestive helps, not exhaustive bounds. Also , substitutions were par for the course. I painted the eaves of the house and replaced a worn crank handle on an aluminum window frame. But, volunteering to spruce up someone else's home is a rewarding strategy. In fact, I happen to know a tired old scouter in a house twice his age on the north side of Pittsburgh ...

"Quality Control"? Of what? @fred johnson hit the nail on the head. Quality of the troop = Scoutmaster + COR Quality of troop operations = Committee Chair + COR Quality relating to ANYTHING else = The PLC and the youth leaders Adults intervention -- and all the horse hockey that comes with it (e.g., JTE, Covey, TQM/CQI, CMM, etc.) -- belongs in the adult business world and no where near Scouting. All these adult-led, wood badge-esque principles and other stuff belong in the rubbish bin.

Well, given the new type of parents Boy Scouts is attracting they should be able to save a TON of money by simply changing the "B" in BSA to a "D" and going with their new logo.

Here's a little piece I wrote over the summer to help get parents thinking about summer camp. https://mikecooney.net/top-10-reasons-scout-camp/

Over the summer, I was asked to attend summer camp with the troop my crew is affiliated with. While there, I saw a youth a with gold shoulder loops on their uniform. I instantly though they were a section chief or a VOA officer who put their loops on the Boy Scout uniform. I quickly came to understand that, in addition to "optional" patrol patches, their troop uses different color shoulder loops to represent each patrol. Later that week at the adult leader social, I confirmed with this with their Scoutmaster. Fast forward, one of my troop's committee members pictures of them on our Facebook pa

A troop is composed of patrols. Boy scouts of America, Boy Scout Handbook, 13th ed., at p. 25 (2015) A Boy Scout is to primarily experience Scouting in a patrol context. A troop-based program would be quite different from what is supposed to be the case with Boy Scouts. There is no "troop method" in Boy Scouting.

The Guide to Advancement, page 52 (7.0.4.7 Limited Recourse for Unearned Merit Badges) lays out what you can do. Forget your district. They don't want to help obviously. If it is like my district it is run by LDS folks, so they may not want to make waves for their LDS units. Call Council. Talk to the advancement chairman. What this unit's adults are doing is essentially giving way Eagle like it's a rec sports participation trophy. Council needs to know what is going on.

To be fair it takes a special boy to pull some it off sometimes; usually a guy with some real skills who is 'pretty chill'. Some boys are a little too much drama--they just make it worse. The boy sense of fair play is a little off: (True story. Older boy puts assembled tent 20' off the ground, younger boys a short kid finds it and raises hell) S: "Hey Tim, sorry man, about putting your tent up in the tree. It seemed pretty funny" T: "Knock it off, you tore a hole it was a new tent" S:"You can set fire to my tent if you want?" T:{thinking) "No...gotta any duct tape?"

I think Son#1 was not happy when Son#2 joined the Troop. And when Son#2 was his SPL.

Now on need to go in my Wayback Machine to 1915 and talk B.P. out of that Cubbing idea. I always thought a lot of the boys liked scouting to GET AWAY from their family a weekend a month! LOL

You are right. I never said it was perfect. It's just if you look for some documented element of BSA's program that exists for quality control purposes, it's the BOR ... and letting bad troops die. I really don't see other quality control mechanisms. JTE maybe, but it's mostly ineffective. Thorns and roses is a great tool when you can solicit real content. I just don't see it taught by BSA as part of the program structure.

The secret to doing AAR's is to not let the boys know you're doing one. I started out my last one with, "Hey, guys! It's stopped raining just in time to go home!" My mistake, the boys wanted to hang around for another 4 hours of fishing, which we did and "chatted about the weekend" while fishing.

What is Rose and Thorns if not an evaluation? Usually done right before the final campsite cleanup sweep before departure. And the PLC does a different one a few days later. I think there one question is "should we do this again?". Of course the adults used to do an online or conference call 'After Action Report' over stuff we had concerns with (signs of bullying, campsite reservation, etc etc). The Rose and Thorns is very similar to the "Hot Wash" we used to use in Emergency Operations. The later more formal thoughts tend to miss out of the emotional gripes and frustrations right after the ev

If this be folly, make the most of it. “The Patrol is the unit of Scouting always, whether for work or for play, for discipline or for duty.” Baden-Powell “Make the Patrol the unit ALWAYS, in and out, through thick and thin, for better and worse in victory and defeat, in games and on hikes, and in camp.” Hillcourt, William, Handbook for Scoutmasters, B.S.A.(1936) “ Scouting happens in the context of a patrol.” B.S.A., Scoutmaster Position Specific Training (current syllabus) “The Troop is the sum of its Patrols.

You should expect to be stopped in the hallway by the SM, who says something like "The 'P' in PLC does not stand for 'parent.' They are doing a fine job without parents or even ASMs sitting in the meeting to judge or monitor them." Regarding summer camp, parents in camp with "nothing" to do get bored. Then they eventually wander over to see what their son's patrol is doing. Then they begin to offer suggestions and generally butt in to patrol business. There is no need for parents at summer camp. The SM and a couple of fully trained ASMs are all that's needed. That's my experien

Due to the new software I suspect many people might not be seeing this. All I can say is you're doing the right thing. The Scoutmaster should not just ask a question and sign off a MB. Nobody should just talk about a subject and then sign off cards. The point of a MB is to do the work. What you're describing is a complete disregard for the advancement method. You have to ask yourself what Eagle means under such circumstances. Well, it sounds like you already have, but what can you do about it? What we usually tell parents in situations like this is talk to someone outside the troop. Talk

You're welcome. Now stop trolling and use that college tuition money wisely. You should be in class according to the last tuition bill I received.

We just had a "promotional visit" on this Merit Badge (along with some of the related "trade" ones) as our last Troop meeting. There are always some boys who are attracted to this sort of thing -- we promote it as 'old school manly'* sort of thing. We did Auto Repair one year on our church van. My son was so excited when he did plumbing when he got to solder a copper pipe --did it much better and neater than I ever had--that when I needed one done in a tight space in my house I let him do the job instead of me. He was 12 at the time and did great. I view these Merit Badges as tryi

We used stop, start, continue which we were taught in nylt. Same concept.

Yep, as a JLT and NYLT (actually JLTC) course designer and Council JLT chairman, I can say without reservation that youth leadership training doesn’t do a lot of good if the adults don’t know how use the skills and information the scouts take from the courses. In my ideal world, adults are sent to NYLT, not the scouts. Because scout growth is directly dependent on the actions of role models, scouts don’t really require any formalized training if the adults are doing their part correctly. I used constant acts of skills being applied improperly (or not at all) as a Red Flag that th

Have you asked your sons what they want you to do? When moms show up, the dynamics do change, whether consciously or unconsciously. When the 1989 decision to allow female ASMs and SM came, we did get one long time female MC switch over to ASM. She knew the deal: adults do not interfere unless safety is concerned, and acted accordingly. But her two sons DID act differently on the trips she attended. Somehow it got back to her that her sons didn't really want her around all the time because they felt she was hovering over them. She backed off and only did 3 camp outs after that in the 5 years sh

I didn't think just putting an @ in front of a name would code it. Nice to know. It has always been case sensitive and with names like Back Pack the space is necessary too.

And see, I was wrong again, we have apparently had coed Sea Scouting since 1972. So not twenty years of female youth members but forty -five years. Apparently, some units at least can be all female. (Local option?) The 2016 national Flagship was all-female Ship 100 from California.

Interesting. My 15 year old SPL son prefers to, and has on several occasions, handle these type issues himself. In fact he sees it as his obligation. On multiple occasions he has respectfully addressed adult interference in the Troop. He is pretty good at redirecting rather than just saying no to them. Usually he can come up with a solution on his own, but will sometimes seek advice. I can see him embracing the parents desire to go hiking by recommending they take their younger Scouts on several patrol hikes so that they will be prepared for the more challenging AT hike

Maybe it’s because im younger, but the whole mobile interface is great. Easier to tag people (@stosh) and do a ton of other stuff. I don’t use a desktop so this is my primary mode of chatting. Like it. Thumbs up.

6. Under the supervision of your merit badge counselor, do THREE of the following:  a. Paint a wall or ceiling.  b. Repair or replace damaged tile, linoleum, or vinyl flooring.  c. Install drapery or curtain rods and then hang drapes or curtains.  d. Replace window blind cords.  e. Repair or replace a window sash cord.  f. Reinforce a picture frame.  g. Mend an object made of china, glass, or pottery. UNDER THE SUPERVISION of your MB counselor..... does that person need to be on-site? Sounds like it. And where does it say any o

Another dent in the mixed age patrols. Some of the patrol goes, others get left behind. Looks like Web III creep to me.

First lost neckerchief slide

I didn't intend to pick on the moms. I can see how doing something just to make a point to someone else is not a good thing. At the same time, external motivation can be a good thing. Two scouts are best friends. One wants to do something and the other is on the fence. The first says hey, come on, we're doing this. That's external. I've done that to others and others have done it to me. My key point was that, given that there are scouts that want to push themselves, the adults should not be holding them back. There are few that will push themselves so that's a huge resource for the

I had a similar experience. One year our Troop sent a critical mass of scouts to NYLT who came back all fired-up, etc. That was the last time our troop sent any scouts to NYLT until I took over as Scoutmaster four years later. Thus the need to promote attendance and in include that as part of the "grade". Potential "gaming"? No doubt. I expect that happens across all organizations and industries. But it shouldn't stop us from trying.

Scouting must have a magical vision to persist despite so many attempts to screw it up!

I gotta give the PLC when my son was SPL a lot of credit. They really tried to grab control and when confronted with adults who vetoed things on the basis of cost they politely asked for information on trip costing for the last few years and what the fund raising funds were used for. Not demanding, just asking. Uncooperative adults really frustrated their planning; they couldn't find out why some 'cheap' trips cost so much and why they couldn't plan a fund raiser for an ambitious goal. I thought it would have been a useful exercise regardless of the result. I don't think it was any skulduggery

HTML 5? Back in my day we only had HTML 1, and we were happy to have it! And we walked to school, uphill, both ways! Not like these kids today, I'll tell you...

Oh good lord please do not reference Management training. BLEECH! You just ask some questions to your self, fellow scouters, or other scouts: Start with do they appear to be progressing in the scout law? Are the boys having fun? Are they passive or engaged? Are they jumping up and doing things themselves or are they waiting on direction? Do scouts start things on their own or are they waiting on adult prompting? Do they laugh at meetings? Do they seem glad to see each other? How is attendance? If they have time conflicts do they tell anybody or propose work

It has been several years since I was SM but our troop's policy was that for Scouts to go on a "troop high adventure," they had to be 14 years old and First Class. Mom or dad wants to go too? I told them to fill out an ASM or committee member app, get trained, take OLS, and then they could sign up. That was for whatever was deemed "troop high adventure" by the PLC. Routine weekend campouts or challenging day hikes were different.

The new mobile interface is generally much easier to navigate. However, if you prefer to view standard web page interface while on your mobile device, you can achieve by "requesting desktop version" as a setting in your browser (this is a standard checkbox in the settings of Chrome and most browsers).

3-year belated congrats from me as well! How has his Scouting adventure been since your original post?

I have not ready every post in the last 10 pages but I plan to. This thought just occurred to me: So when this young man truly reaches adulthood with a fully developed brain and intellect sometime in his mid 20s what will he think of this experience? It will be about this time that he really makes the decision if he is going to continue with his parents religion or find his own path and likely a mate and family to share that path. Will he think "I sure am glad all those adults put me in a box and determined the path of my religious and scouting journey."?

I thought of: First statement that "It only takes an hour a week." First loss of one boot or one shoe on campout. But the first is an adult "thing" and the second, although a standard at every council camp we attended, was not as universal as the marshmallow torch. Good one. Consider this a "Like:" - although that seems to have gone away with the new software.