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Here's the thing: It's called BOY Scouts...at least for now. Not Parent Scouts or Family Scouts or Adult Scouts. The whole program is designed for a whole bunch of boys to be monitored and counseled by trained adults...and even then not a whole ton of adults. There is ZERO need for mom (or dad) to be around to help their little yum yum. Their Patrol Leader and patrol mates will help them if there's a problem. The TRAINED adults leaders -- who should know how the program works, as well as the policies and procedures -- will be around to help if there's the need. Other than that, Boy Scouts don'

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Glad no one has mentioned JTE yet.

I have always felt that parent relations is the most challenging skill for SMs. The better SMs are usually great salesmen who deflected parent over involvement with a “trust me and watch” sales pitch. If push comes to shove (scouts choosing to skip activities), the SM will have to draw a line in the sand. If the SM isn’t a good salesman, a trusted well experienced assistant can also be a good interpreter between the SM and parents. Barry

"Quality Control"? Of what? @fred johnson hit the nail on the head. Quality of the troop = Scoutmaster + COR Quality of troop operations = Committee Chair + COR Quality relating to ANYTHING else = The PLC and the youth leaders Adults intervention -- and all the horse hockey that comes with it (e.g., JTE, Covey, TQM/CQI, CMM, etc.) -- belongs in the adult business world and no where near Scouting. All these adult-led, wood badge-esque principles and other stuff belong in the rubbish bin.

"We have met the enemy and they is us". I am as guilty as anyone else and while trying to be helpful short-circuited what was occurring organically.

The Col. is right, 11 & 12 year old boys are ready for independent challenges parents aren’t ready to consider, which is why staying home is a good idea until they are acclimated to the troop program and their sons real abilities. I see it every year at summer camp. Once the troop arrives to camp, the scouts are purposely left to their own. All the adults are asked to let the scouts (and sons) be on their own and to stand back and just watch. We even put the adults in a different campsite. This forces (and allows) each scout to figure out their classes, route to cla

Why not just limit adult participation? Our SM decides which adults go on hikes, campouts, not CC or Troop Committee.

So the first US scoutmaster was Mrs. Myra Greeno Bass?

At the Troop meeting last night it was interesting to observe some of the reactions from the decision seeping into the Troop. A number of the Mom's of the younger to middle scouts were saying they thought it was great that females would be more welcome in the program. (OK so far). At that point there was a leap that Mom's could now be more welcome at the campouts as visitors. Three of them said that they wanted to go on the annual AT hike with their 11 to 13 year old sons and lobbied the Committee Chair that since the boys were young and the moms were fairly new hikers could they plan an easie

Hit the antique stores, that's where I pick up a lot of authentic patches. I buy just for the patches. Remember the old community/state strips were for all uniforms, both Cub and Boy.

Well, given the new type of parents Boy Scouts is attracting they should be able to save a TON of money by simply changing the "B" in BSA to a "D" and going with their new logo.

I gotta give the PLC when my son was SPL a lot of credit. They really tried to grab control and when confronted with adults who vetoed things on the basis of cost they politely asked for information on trip costing for the last few years and what the fund raising funds were used for. Not demanding, just asking. Uncooperative adults really frustrated their planning; they couldn't find out why some 'cheap' trips cost so much and why they couldn't plan a fund raiser for an ambitious goal. I thought it would have been a useful exercise regardless of the result. I don't think it was any skulduggery

One of my scouts has got a place with the UK contingent for WSJ 2019. She's lovely! One of the most enthusiastic scouts I've ever had

Nope. Managing meddling non-Scouter adults is NOT the boys' problem. That's what the SM and TC are for, to keep the meddler at bay and to allow the boys to do their thing. In fact, I would argue it is not an SM job either, but rather the TC Chairman's job to keep parents at bay. As SM I ran cover for the boys to make sure meddling, helicopter parents were parked on the runway far away from the boys. Yes, each troops should have that "Come to Jesus" meeting with the parents where they cut the umbilical cords and tell mom and dad what their role as parent is. Then they have the same

Son#2 is on stand by status for his Eagle BOR for Thursday. I think he will do well--he is a good interview--and a very deserving and experienced scout.

Or the Scouts are so fed up with adults taking over and overruling what they want that they say "WHATEVER." Man this is starting to sound like some of the stuff going on in my troop in the Helicopter parent thread.

Smart split from the original thread Moderator. I digress too much in face to face conversation as well.

The best measure of a quality of a troop is the boys showing up and having fun. When you see the SPL running the meetings and outings with just a little coaching from the SM when needed and the boys are having fun you have a quality troop. If the adult leaders are are supporting the SM, making his job as easy as possible you have quality set of adults. When the boys are advancing to the rank of First Class by just doing the normal scout stuff while having fun you have a quality program.

The very presence of adults tends to interfere with youth leadership. Their presence should be minimized to the number required for safety and even then they should be physically located as far away as that safety function allows. Boy Scouting is a "small" team of boys functioning as independently as practicable.

It's always been an issue with new parents that are looking out for their sons and don't see the whole troop. Quality control might not be the right term. It's an attitude. It's about the scouts figuring this out on their own and adults encouraging them to push themselves. I honestly don't know if this is a guy thing or not but I suspect this is what underlies this whole reason we're at some huge number of posts about moms and girls in scouting. My son, who is now 26, had an idea this summer. He rode his bike 50 miles, starting at 10pm and climbed nearly a mile in elevation, met me at a trail

Quality control ? BSA quality control is to let scouts and families vote with their feet. Units die if they go astray and it drives parents away. If units go astray and scouts and their parents stay and the unit successfully recruits enough to keep alive, then it's a good quality unit. Nope ... Training ... BSA training is introductory. It's not meant to produce effective leaders implementing the same program in the same way. Nope ... Commissioners ... BSA commissioners are helpful, but not a day-to-day quality control. Nope ... BSA Oversight ...

In 2016, my troop did have two separate backpacking trips. One was the AT, and the requirements were First Class or higher, and do two of the three prep trips. The only exception was an ASM who didn't do any of the prep trips, and had not backpacked in over 18 years. He was the one with major issues, to the point that he collapsed on the trail. Now the standard is do the prep trips OR completed a previous AT trip. I know I got my work cut out for me if I can schedule the vacation. The second trip was the weekend of the AT. Anyone could go, and it was much, much shorter. Out of 18

How ironic. I bet the folks who came up with this never read B-P's Aids to Scoutmasters since Scouting is NOT suppose to be like school. In fact, I found quotes from BP who said school teachers should not be Scouters since they would try to turn the program into school. If that is what the current WB course teaches, I will never take it as it is so far from BP's vision. And if that is what new Scouters are being taught, then I see an uphill battle on keeping traditional Scouting alive. My thoughts on quality control is MENTORING. Training only gets you the basics. Without experienc

I "split" the "Quality Control" responses to a new topic. Sorry for the confusion and clumsiness on my part. And I split off Tampa Turtle's parents and AT hike conundrum. Actually I split if off as a separate topic. I had to do it one response at a time. Much more difficult than spinning off topics in previous software. Or maybe I am just doing it the hard way? Breaking up is hard to do!

I agree. and have seen it. Our solution has been our SM selects who comes, another tool he uses is a Family outing is not Scout outing - no advancement, lets just go have fun. No parents chasing after PL's or ASM's to sign-off. Another $0.02

We did do that, every year. I KNOW all that! Weekly training backpacking hikes (lots of stairs because it is flat here) and you had to do 2 out of 3 field hike with the equipment you were taking. This was the rules that the boys made and we had used for a while. But we had some Mom's, who had lots of day hike experience but not backpacking, work their way into the AT trip at the last minute and they were not just not ready. The Boys are not going to tell an adult they cannot go. The SM should have been willing to be the bad guy but caved to keep the peace. On the AT the newbies could not just

My fancy 'like' was in return for @RememberSchiff's fancy 'like' in the WWBPD (what would Baden Powell do) thread. I strongly encourage our SM to decide based on commitment to training, and requisite conditioning. If you want to be a big-ticket-scouter: Complete training for a direct-contact position. That includes safety training (weather hazards, wilderness first aid, etc ...). Participate in conditioning hikes. Accept feedback on training required to hone your skills. Do nothing to hijack a big-ticket activity. That especially means: don't rattle

I like that we can now change our votes. Still kicking the tires.

Not true. The articles on this have all been spun to make it look like that. While it is true that transgender individuals who identify as female may now join the girl guides most certainly do not allow 18+ members to shower with those aged under 18. It is scare mongering nonsense. Furthermore I've yet to encounter a scout or hide campsite (we use each other's sites here) where the showers aren't individual cubicals anyway

B.P. was not stuck in his own time, rather he was a forward thinker. He often challenged scouters and scouts around the world to embrace the new and find ways to weave it into their programs. He was a General who had seen more than his share of gore and the worst of society, having served in the Colonial system. He more than once hope aloud and in print that Scouting could become a movement for world peace. The fact that he turned to his sister Agnes and later his wife as well in regard to the female challenges speaks loudly. He also early on worked to find a way for the younger, as

Calico, I still use the scout's pace at times. Read about it in an old scout book when I was I kid. Had to walk every where back then, long distances, so I tried it. Worked like a charm. Just about the time I was tired/bored of running 50 paces, I'd walk 50 paces. Catch my breath. Run 50. Walk 50. Repeat cycle until I arrived at my destination. Not that this has anything to do with the topic at hand. Apologies and carry on.

So when are you filing the lawsuit?

OMG! Am I supposed to be worried at this point? It's nothing more than casual observation over a 50-60 year time span. Anyone that has that experience who feels differently is more than welcome to challenge my observations. We have always had female DEN MOTHERS in the Cub program. There's a reason for that. But then when certain people start complaining about BOY Scout troops being Webelos III i.e. an extension of Cubs. There's a reason for that. Now that the cycle has come full circle, things seem to be unraveling at the seams. There's a reason for that.

I’m not shutting down a point of view, I’m pointing out your condescending tone towards the opinions of scouters who have many many more years experience than you. You choose how you want contribute to a meaningful discussion, but If you can’t respect our concerns from where we stand, how are we to respect your hopes for the girls. And if you don’t agree with my opinion of your posts, consider that you haven’t said much (if anything) of concern for what your sons will get out of the program. Who here has their back? Barry

I would like to know who was the first boy to publicly credit his scout training for being able to stop a runaway horse.

What level are you planning to lead at? First, Woodbadge is never necessary for unit leadership. Second, not every leader in the unit needs BALOO.

It could also be that they see something they look forward to being so watered down that they do not see the purpose. When the Scouts are polite and tell the new parents that they got it, and the parents ignore them, so the older Scouts just walk away and let the parents do their work. Sadly in my instance the "Come to Jesus" meetings, yes plural" have had no effect and the new parents are doing what they want. Heck now the parents have some financial influence they "gave" the troop $3000 from a joint pack/troop fundraiser. Troop only sold $600 worth of tickets, while the pack,