desertrat77

SP, the odds are pretty good that the patrol boxes are collections of dirty dishes, canned goods with no labels, and other odds and ends, unless the QM and SPL ride herd on the PLs before and especially after every campout. Which is why I can't stand the darn things, a bias from my days as a scout. Lugging all the stuff around, and then on Sunday afternoon, getting the contents back inspection order before being released to go home. As a scout and scouter, I've camped with patrol boxes, and without, and without is the way to go. Kinda like the trailer--the bigger the box, the bigger the amount of crap that ends up in it, most of it nice to have or unnecessary. Exception: long term camps. But weekends? No thanks.

Seattle, you said it best. MV, I can't imagine the purpose of such an organization. At worst, could easily be perceived as a mutual admiration society, and at best, another organization that has a charter, meetings, events, fundraisers, newsletters, etc. If the purpose is to highlight the prestige and contribution of SB award recipients, we usually do that at annual award banquets, and other formal events where folks are wearing their SB. As Seattle pointed out, working along side a SB in a troop, committee, whathaveyou, is the best way to benefit all concerned. I've been in four councils as an adult, getting ready to join my fifth, and I've never heard of a SB assoc. Hopefully I'm wrong, but that's just my initial impression.

Art, you make a good point. Now that I think about it, it's not so much the trailer as the type of gear many trailer troops haul in it. It is certainly cool to put everyone's pack in the trailer, without jamming stuff in car trunks. Get to the trailhead and in minutes you're unloaded and in the outdoors. The heavy gear troop seems to load their trailer with a bunch of complex, weighty stuff. Less time enjoying the outdoors, more time carrying and assembling stuff. Sounds like work!

Concur with the previous posts--service is the key. And yes, organizations ebb and flow. That said, there is nothing wrong with a small lodge. I was a vice lodge chief in the late '70s in a very small lodge in AK. For activities, we served on camporee staff, held ordeals to set up and tear down summer camp, and had a conclave once a year. That was it. Membership was geographically separated quite a bit, and getting together for camporee, summer camp, and conclave was the best we could do. For a long time, one lodge flap. No dance team, very basic costumes (in a footlocker) for ordeal and brotherhood ceremonies. Result? We enjoyed every minute of it. Because of that experience, I wouldn't be in a big hurry to gin up numbers for the sake of numbers, nor expend a bunch of energy planning events. Better a dedicated team of 12 scouts in the lodge that represent the ideals of the Order than a roster of 120 who are just looking for the next edition of the lodge flap, or sit around waiting for lodge leadership to hold fun events for arrowmen. Be visible, be working, be professional, be humble. In the long run, that will draw the kind of scouts and scouters you really want in the lodge.

Welcome, Mountaineer! I concur, light is the way to go. I too get exhausted just watching those troops unload those giant trailers full of gear. Lanterns blazing late Friday night as they assemble all that stuff. Saturday they camp, and Sunday morning they have to break it all down and load it. Concur with Beavah, given the choice, the scouts are content with very little. It's the adults that need/want all that heavy gear.

This is good news indeed!

Scoutfish, I can't resist chasing a rabbit in your thread, apologies in advance! Each time Basement describes his council, I have a flashback to a certain council I was in as an ASM and SM over two decades ago. I think his council trumps my old one on the bizzare scale, but there are a bunch of similiarities, particularly the thinnly veiled contempt towards unit level scouters (and all things unit related, except for shake-downs during fundraising), little programming or training, and a stuff shirt Good Olde Boy network (council/district/WB) that I haven't seen the likes of since, thank goodness (served in three councils thereafter). If this kind of stuff doesn't happen in your area, count your blessings...and to the scouters that persevere in dysfunctional/toxic councils for the sake of the scouts , thanks for your grit, and for hanging in there. PS Scoutfish, best wishes during your WB course, hope it is everything you want it to be.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Districts aren't obsolete, but some do not provide good service (or any service). Also, district boundaries are sometimes drawn to please bean counters at HQ, while splitting neighborhoods off from natural or long term district lines.

Eagle92, enjoyed your note about the WWI bayonet...brought back memories of one I used on a backpacking trip many years ago as a scout. As a scout in the '70s, here is a partial list of tools used on official scout outings: sheath knives (all manner of civilian, scout and military varieties), machetes, axes, saws, and chain saw. Don't recall any horrific injuries, nor crimes. Proper training and supervision were the norm. Went to HS in AK. Carried a pocket knife every day, with zero problems. Concur with Fred8033 about lifestyles. More indoor people today, whose only exposure to blades is via movies, TV shows, and the news media, which results routinely false and negative impressions.

Kahuna, as a fellow Airman, thanks for posting that--yellow cards in boot camp is an urban myth that just keeps living.... Are we raising wimps? Depends on where you live, and what you do. I see examples pro and con. In the situations where the kids are wimps, this is more of a reflection on the adults than the kids. The kids are capable of incredible accomplishments. Given the right training and environment to succeed or fail, they will amaze adults, and themselves, all the time. But many adults have never pushed their own boundaries, or had them pushed by someone else. So they take the template for their life, and expectations, and pass it along. Scouts are made of much stronger stuff than most give them credit for. That includes kids with learning disabilities and medical conditions.

Ten times around a paved 1 mile track is not a hike, it's a forced march. Swimming MB in a day? The experience of earning the badge should mean something more than checking off another block towards Eagle. Recommend pulling some old scout handbooks ('60s and earlier) off the shelf, and see how rich they are in the spirit of outdoors and scouting. In the second edition of the Fieldbook (circa early 70s), the hiking chapter is still one of my favorite to read. Simple games to play on a hike, how to pack (no gucci gear in those days), making your own snacks at home. Being responsible and adventurous, etc.

Duct tape!

OGE, I agree.... Bet y'all a slice of pumpkin pie that the next CSE will be physically fit. Or at least appear that way. Concur also, we need a CSE who likes the outdoors.

Papadaddy, sure enjoyed your post, couldn't agree more. Basement, true, it's been a few years since the TQM craze. I've tried my best for many years to forget all that TQM baloney...the military adopted it for a few years. Wasn't pretty.

Beavah, well said. I think the WOSM modelis best, but biggest challenge to implementation may be the very transient nature of most Americans that would prevent the building of long term bonds. That is not to say it is not a worthy goal to pursue. Looking back on scouting when I was a kid...as a military brat, scouting was the one constant in my life as we moved base to base. Though it was not conscious decision, I joined the pack or troop that was on the base we were stationed at. Some units were great, others stunk. But we military kids looked at the pack/troop as "ours, right or wrong." Though we brats came from a bunch of different places, and rarely spent more than a year or two together, we had the common bond of being scouts and military kids. So I'm rambling a bit, but what you said resonnated with me. I think too many parents and kids are looking for that perfect troop. It doesn't exist. Make the best of it, bloom where you are planted. Naturally, there are definitely times to depart from a unit and we know what they are. But otherwise, I'd recommend the model you presented.

emb021, excellent points. From what I've seen and heard over the years, adults who like to camp, cook, hike, swim, boat, shoot are wrongly labeled as "man scouts." Which is too bad...I think scoutcraft and such should be a lifelong study with daily application. Sets a good example for the scouts.

Sewing is best, even if the patch is going to be on there a short while. Concur with the others, your son will benefit from sewing the patches himself. I learned to sew as a scout, and it's an invaluable skill I've used often since.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Outstandng, thanks for sharing! The scouts typically have an incredible sense of excellence.

EagleScout02, no worries...the comments after your post would have happened regardless.

Happy birthday Terry, and thanks for all you do!

Plenty of guys stay involved in scouting after attaining Eagle, but earn maybe 1 palm, or zero. They don't rate coverage by the media, but I'd say they are still living up to the rank as much the guy with a bunch of palms. I've always viewed the palms as optional.

Two words: Muzzle control.

Gunny, your post brought a smile...as an AF guy, up to a certain age, I could sleep on any floor without a pad, just used the gas mask as a pillow and covered up with a poncho liner--cement hangar, tiled MAC/AMC terminal, steel C-17/KC-135/C-130...and then one day I couldn't. I've got an issued, inflatable thin pad that seems to work well nowadays (not sure what brand it is) on a standard cot. Still don't get good sleep on the floor with it. I'll sleep but wake up feeling like I took a beating.

Doesn't surprise me James West said that. Good fella, but by a few accounts I've read and heard, he was high-strung by nature. Anyone who is "anxious" about proper uniform wear, and concerned that someone not wearing a neckerchief properly "breeds disrespect for law and order"...that's a bit over the top, in my book.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

It's a tie...two different trips, both involve bad weather (snow and rain), in southern Arizona, late '70s, winter, in cheap nylon tents of that era. There are some other drizzly winter nights in AZ that would round out a top five. Folks find it hard to believe, but it gets darn cold in the desert. Though we moved to Alaska and I spent alot of very cold nights camping there, none approached the misery of those two AZ nights. Perhaps because we were better prepared in AK. No expensive gear, but made wise use of military surplus gear. In AZ, the aforementioned nylon tents, blue jeans, jean jackets, 10 dollar Kmart sleeping bags. Makes me appreciative of the gear I have now.