desertrat77

Sounds like integrity is the root cause of the present problem.

Almost none of the dignitaries in that memo will ever know that Johnny Scout is an Eagle. Your announcement memo will be opened by an intern, who will get on the computer, find the appropriate congratulations template (Form Letter 113, Eagle Scout; Form Letter 114, Gold Award; Form Letter 115, State Football Championship; Form Letter 116; State Fair Livestock Best in Show; Form Letter 117, Graduation from College; etc.), type in Johnny's name and troop, sign the boss' name electronically, print on nice stationery, and mail it to you. Might get proofed by a senior staffer, but that is as high in the chain as that memo is going. Sure, that congrats memo will look nice in the leatherbound book, strategically located at the Eagle COH reception, with all of the other memos, prepared by the other interns. Earning Eagle is a great achievement, but it's not a coronation, or a lifetime achievement award. It's a solid first step in becoming a responsible citizen. If a SM, or a parent, believe that that rates a memo, then more power to them. But to me, it seems with each passing year, folks collectively make a bigger and bigger deal out of earning Eagle. Past the point of what it should be.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

If I may tread on sacred ground for a moment.... Is there a need to send out an announcement memo of any kind?

OGE, I'm guessing two factors are at play: - Hikers are "fudging" their actual weight on the form - Philmont is granting waivers ahead of time, or on the spot Neither should be happening, for obvious reasons. Did the Philmont medical staff ask hikers to step on the scales during in-processing?

CC, it's been awhile since I've seen The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, but I recall a complete lack of any manners or decorum in that movie. Drinking straight out of the whiskey bottle? Very base. Lots of random yelling, insults and general underhandedness. I doubt Baden Powell would have approved. (I for one enjoy watching it!) Let the scouts have their moments at the camp mess hall. It's part of the tradition. They can't do it at home or school. It's controlled chaos. That energy is better expended shouting doggerel and laughing over chili mac and brussell sprouts than fights in camp, or sneaking off at midnight to the local gas station to buy beer. Granted, doggerel won't prevent that midnight trip, but the odds will be less if the scout is really enjoying his camp experience and doesn't want to ruin it by breaking real/hard-fast rules. That craziness in the mess hall? He thinks he's getting away with something. And that's okay.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

CC, It's camp. They are scouts. I'd worry if there wasn't table pounding, loud singing, and doggerel. Perhaps there is a camp for young folks that encourages evening dress at dinner, white gloves, and "elevated conversation"...but I doubt it. Maybe you can take your meals elsewhere in camp, where your refined sensibilities won't be offended. Then again, even after I type all this, I gotta ask: are you trolling us, and getting a big belly laugh from this thread? If so, hazzah! (This message has been edited by desertrat77)

SP, well said and a very worthy goal.

SP, I'm tracking with you, and I agree that there are good DEs out there. My point is the DE jobs (and most pro jobs) seem deliberately tailored to be meat grinders. Regards of who is in the cubical, it's just not a very attractive job, even for the most dedicated scouter. If we want to attract good candidates, who stay longer, we need to revamp the professional career path, not just provide familiarization to the status quo.

Set boundaries. Fence off family time, rest and relaxation. Honor those boundaries yourself, and don't let others cross them. Because folks will try to knock a hole in your fence, via guilt ("well, if I know you had a family trip that weekend but none of the other adults are available, so we'll have to cancel that troop campout if you don't go....) and any other means, to include ineptitude (real or feigned, "you're the only one who knows how to do this...."), clogging the calendar with events that could be consolidate or outright cancelled, etc. Have fun outside of scouting too. When I was an ASM, our SM would invite several fellow scouters out to his property in the middle of the desert for a weekend now and again. Not an official BSA event. Just a relaxing time of hiking, shooting, and enjoying good cooking, cigars, tall tales and cold beer around the campfire. Good decompression.

SP, I think your concerns are spot-on, but I don't think the badge is the answer. If volunteer scouters are the right caliber, scouts will want to follow in their footsteps. If professional scouting was something other a perpetual Bob Cratchit twilight zone, more scouts would set their sights on that career path after college. Sadly (and I'll try to be as diplomatic as I can), some vols and pros don't project an image that encourages adventuous scouts to say "hey I want to be a scouter like Mr./Ms. Smith when I grow up." And for the many scouters that have the values, and character, and sense of adventure that encourages real scouting, I think many scouts look at them and think "I respect him/her, but dang, they are working like a dog and it doesn't seem like a heck of alot of fun." So I think we need to attract the right adults to fill those positions. Then the scouts will see the natural progression from scout to scouter. But I don't think the badge will accomplish that. Many potentially good scouters are turned off by the Cadre Of The Self-Proclaimed Finest Scouters Ever that seem to have chapters in every district and council I've been in, red tape, and just the general idea of "do I want to be associated with the adults and activities of this organization?"

I concur with BSA24. Our latest crop of scout uniforms seem designed expressly for the sedentary/powerpoint aspects of scouting. Mil surplus khaki shirts are really good stuff. And lately it appears ebay has had a bunch of old adult size scout shirts from the 50s and 60s, when uniforms were well made and suitable for outdoor use.

SP, at the risk of sounding silly, will this be for the youth to earn? Because it strikes me that the exposure to the professional opportunities, as a youth, would be pretty darn depressing. No knock on the pros themselves, it's just a tough line of work to get ahead in. Back in my days as a youth, I seriously considered striving to be a BSA pro till I observed what a mentor of mine when thru (he was a DE). An outstanding role model, loved scouting and the outdoors, and he never said one bad word about his job. But even a thick-headed high school kid like me could see the kind of hours he was keeping, working all kinds of projects. One heck of a grind. He kept a sleeping bag in his car and often slept in the office. Later he resigned and went into another line of work, where he was quite successful. If it got the best of a scouter that good, I knew I it wasn't for me. But that's just me. Some bright lads shadowing a council exec might get a kick out of the fundraising, strategic planning, and social circles that one must move in. But I'm also thinking of the DEs in cubical land, working day and night like Bob Cratchit. That part might be kinda eye opening. PS. This might qualify as chasing a rabbit, but why does professional scouting have to be the grind that it is? (This message has been edited by desertrat77)

JM, that's much food for thought, will definitely mull it over. I especially like the idea of leading the venture patrol on a 50 miler...I think we'd be pleasantly surprised at the Eagle candidates' collective, positive response to that kind of challenge. Planning and executing a big trek in the outdoors...that's something most senior scouts could sink their teeth into. Agreed, there may not be much appetite at National for such a change. Darn shame, because I think it would really spark some interest in scouting that just isn't here right now, internally and externally. And it's a truly Eagle-worthy kinda project.

JM, given the state of adult oversight of advancement today, yes, I'd consider the Life project to be red tape. Because it won't be the straightforward concept you mention. Like the Eagle project of today, there will be a bunch of adult nit-picking and "oversight." Scouting got along just fine for decades without an Eagle project. Then it became a requirement. And with each passing year, it becomes more and more of a paperwork drill. Scouting wasn't designed to be that way. The scouts get enough busy work and chores in town. Scouting should be that one activity where they can't wait to rush out the door and go boating, hiking, camping. Sure, pursue some badges if the spirit so moves. But if they don't, so what? The experiences and spirit of scouting they pick up along the way is far more important than any badge. LOL, I don't consider cooking red tape. Anything the scout does in the outdoors, that challenges him mentally and physically, isn't red tape. Anything that makes him spend more time sitting at the picnic bench, filling out forms, than in the outdoors, is red tape to me. He'll get a full heapin' helping of that during his Eagle project.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Though I'm sure the suggestions are made with good intentions, I'd like to respectfully offer an opposing one. The requirements for Eagle already have too much homework. With each passing year, there is more and more red tape, that frankly does nothing but satisfy the adults who oversee the program at National, and levels below. Adding a "capstone" experience that ties stuff from Star and Life, and you'll have more last-minute Eagles who've put off the pain till they had to tackle it. Or, you'll have a bunch of book-saavy scouts making Eagle, and the ones that prefer to be in the outdoors, actually doing things, that would be good Eagles in their own right, may tend to shy away from extra book work. That said, I'm not in favor of "giving" Eagle away. It should be difficult to earn. But the red tape does little to actually encourage scouts to pursue Eagle. Indeed, much of the red tape already there needs to be cut (the silly citizenship series MBs, etc.)(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Agreed, congratulations and have fun!

Eagle92 mentioned the magic word: stapler. I staple the patches in just the right place, then sew. Easier and more stable than pinning (at least for me). Once I'm done sewing, I use my pocket knife to very carefully straighten out the ends of the staples...out they go...and patch is firmly in place. Other than that, it's all trial and error. Better sewing with each new patch. Can't forget the pride in doing the job yourself.

Visited some troops on duty, with the boss (security forces, dining facility, fire dept). Then a quiet day at home.

Pappydaddy mentioned the best plan--aquatics. Influence the troop to go to open swim each day. Sell enrollment in swimming and lifesaving. Splashing about in chlorine or lake water will provide some measure of cleanliness.

FScouter, you provided a much needed chuckle.

I've seen a couple WB beading ceremonies. The first, and probably the best, was at the end of my first COH as a scout. My SM received his beads after a speech by someone from the WB staff. Beads presented, here's your neckerchief, round of applause, ladies and gentlemen, please join us for cake and punch. Compare/contrast...the latest was in my previous council...kudu horns blowing, critter songs, inside jokes, long speeches by three different adults about the wonderment of WB, etc. Then "Will all WBers please come up and sing with us." Middle age men and women giggling, bellowing out the songs. The vibe in the audience was mixed, but mostly "what the heck.....?" It completely overshadowed the two young folks who each got the Venture Silver Award a few moments earlier in a very disorganized, too-brief part of the evening. I'd seen totenchips presented with more flair. I agree with Twocubdad, let father and son figure it out. But I'd offer this: ensure the WB stuff doesn't overshadow the Eagle part....(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Me too, I'll read this thread later.....

Indeed, I think that's it--the scout has to do his part.

A horn? What kind? Batteries? Electricity? Another gadget that can fail. Bell? As Short pointed out, this has a limit. Is the lifeguard going to take his/her eyes off the victim to dash to the bell station? We've used whistles for 100 years in the BSA. Portable, affordable, reliable. How the heck did we survive this long? Oh, that's right...we've done just fine. "a ... shiny brass whistle ... serves more for exhibitionism than for discipline. ... A bell or horn is more sanitary than a whistle for buddy checks." Laughable! Whoever wrote that at National has issues, beyond the topic at hand.

Employment, parenting, fully participating in the faith of your choice, and being a good neighbor aren't "one and done." At what point should the scouts learn this principle?