acco40

Reminds me of an Austin Powers line that I can't repeat on this forum.

Our council consists of two councils that were merged about three years ago. So we have four council camps right now. They all have their uses so if fiscal problems are not a concern, why close any?

Are you asking what requirements/courses are needed to become trained? Or, are you asking what training is required to be a Scouter? These are two different questions. Keeping the discussion focused on Cub Scouts, Youth Protection, This is Scouting and Leader Specific training is all required to be considered trained for your position. All of this training can be taken on-line although the preferred method is with a living, breathing trainer. Basic supplemental training includes Fast Start, BALOO, Outdoor Skills for Webelos Leaders and other courses. Trained leaders in youth protection and BALOO are required to get tour plan approval.

Because raccoons wear masks?

Absolutely not. We should have expectations - but not be surprised when the Scouts don't live up 100% to those expectations. Think of it this way. Should you expect your child to study for school? Of course. Would you be surprised that on occasion, his study habits were less than perfect?

Now, what you receive is what is typical on this forum, folks picking and choosing what BSA "rules" they feel are important and what they feel may be ignored "for the good of the boys." Boy can I predict the future. A Scout should be recognized three times for each advancement. First, right after (minutes after) passing his BOR. Second, the next troop meeting, after the troop has gone to the council shop and purchased his rank badge (stockpiling can be done, stockpiling may not be done) and third at the next COH. Why all this rationalization on why not to follow the program?

A district advancement chair may disapprove an MBC application. A Scoutmaster assigns scouts to MBCs. That is the checks & balances and quality control tools that exist.

As pointed out by many, this did not follow the ACP&P? Only troop committee members may sit on Boards of Review for Tenderfoot - Life. Now, what you receive is what is typical on this forum, folks picking and choosing what BSA "rules" they feel are important and what they feel may be ignored "for the good of the boys." For me, during summer camp, I try to make sure we have at least three committee members at least one day so we can do "field" BORs. However, I would not condone doing them with a parent (non-committee member). My question, on the advancement report, for Boards of Review, two additional signatures are required, in addition to the board chair, plus it states directly on the form - All Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts ready for advancement must appear personally before a board of review composed of at least three members. An advancement report must be sent to the council service center immediately following each board of review. This report must be signed by at least three members of the board of review, including its chairman.

To answer your several questions, the men are registered with the BSA, and members of the Troop Committee. The men seemed to have gone to the bar for a few "quick ones'; there was no mention of any food served other than the homemade salsa provided to them by the bartender, and they left camp after lunch and before dinner. They were not in uniform. When they returned, they were not overtly intoxicated or impaired. Those of us who remained at camp would have no reason to suspect that they had gone drinking, but for the fact that they felt the need to tell us. -sgk8102 It is the policy of the Boy Scouts of America that the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances is not permitted at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members. - G2SS My experiences: I was invited to a BSA district party - a social event held at a residence. In attendance were SMs, CCs, UCs, SE, DE, etc. All Scouters and their wives/husbands with no youth. Alcohol and food were plentiful. I was rather new to scouting at the time (as an adult) and the presence of alcohol surprised me but did not upset me in any way. On a canoe trip, I was an SA at the time, I made the comment that the last time I went canoeing was as a youth numerous times (non-Scout) around the ages of 18-23 (drinking at for beer was 18 at the time) and it just seemed weird that here I was canoeing with no beer. Next thing I knew, a husband and wife went out for some food supplies and came back with a 6 pack for 6 adults. They were not aware of any rules forbidding the consumption of alcohol and they were doing it to be gracious and as a favor to the adults (SM and two SAs) who did so much for their son. Well, I made a mistake, said thank you and drank a few of us drank a lone 12 oz. beer away from the boys. We discussed it amongst ourselves about what we should do and kind of felt if we "refused" we would be insulting the "gift giver." Yes, it was a mistake. Once, had an outing with myself (SM) and four SAs where we brought the troop trailer, and took inventory, repaired equipment, threw out badly damaged equipment, tested stoves, etc. We also cooked three turkeys (deep fried, smoked and box oven) etc. Lots of beer being consumed (no youth present). We were at a non-BSA campground but registered as a troop. A camp employee came by, saw all the tents set up (about 12) and asked where the boys were. We told him - on a hike! Anyway, we accomplished a lot and had a good time. To get back to the subject at hand - inform the gentlemen about the prohibition of the use of alcoholic beverages at any activity involving participation of youth members. Leaving the premises to drink a beer is a gray area but probably not in the best interest of maintaining a top notch program for the boys.

A unit commissioner should at least know the roles and responsibilities of the SM, SAs, CC, etc. Some UCs are good, some mediocre and some absent. Very little risk in trying to utilize one. When I was a UC, I felt I needed to walk a tight rope - wanting to let the unit know I was there and available but not wanting to stick my nose in everything and act like some sort of overseer. I usually erred on the side of making my self scarce. Once a pack asked for my help in "removing" a den leader. I heard that this person stepped up to be a den leader but then did not really fulfill his commitment. Well, I didn't necessarily agree to remove him but agreed to visit during the pack pinewood derby and evaluate the situation. I was planning on talking to the den leader himself, some of the parents of the boys in his den, etc. Well, after I just observed for about 15 minutes or so, the pack CC came by and told me that the den leader decided on his own to step down and another parent stepped up as a replacement. My work there was done!

Eamonn, one thing I've learned is that when trying to teach our children right from wrong and passing along our values our children are certainly different entities. I feel I've made somewhat of an equal effort for each of my children but they sure don't all act the same. As Merle Haggard wrote, Mama tried to raise me better but her pleading I denied, that leaves only me to blame cause mama tried.

I would not dual register with another troop - don't even think you can do that. You may dual register with another unit, but not a troop. Ask the Scoutmaster for a Scoutmaster conference that has nothing to do with rank/palms. Have a heart to heart with him/her on the subject. Is avoidance his way of trying to slow you down? Is he just busy? Does he think you may not be worthy? Does he feel you may not be active? May not show Scout spirit? Not making a satisfactory effort to grow as a leader or demonstrate leadership ability? If so, he should hold a conference and let you know. These requirements are real and not just rubber stamps - earn 5 more merit badges and get a palm. P.S. And be careful, never drop that "r" from your name! (This message has been edited by acco40)

Jeesh, there is nothing magical about 100 yards, 100 feet or separate campsites. The thing to remember is the basic unit in scouting is the patrol, not the troop. As a Scoutmaster, judging by how much interaction we had between the adults, boys and both intra and inter-patrol I would adjust patrol separation accordingly - working with the SPL and others of course. One year, we had Webelos join us for a weekend outing. Our patrols are loosely aged based - what the Scouts wanted. We camped in one site with the Webelos and their parents, younger Scouts and troop adults. I encouraged the older scouts to have a "patrol outing" about a mile away - no adults within earshot or by sight line. The older boys loved it. Now, some of the "older" boys were really only with the troop for a little over a year so myself and another adult would just happen to stroll into their camp site first thing in the morning and right before bed to "just say hello." It was a memorable experience for them and they remembered that outing fondly for many years.

From Wikipedia The BSA commissioned a series of studies and developed an updated program to modernize Scouting in a manner similar to the changes of the British Boy Scout Association in 1967. September 1972 saw the launch of the Improved Scouting Program. The Cub Scout Promise was changed from "to be square" to "to help other people", as the term square went from meaning honest to rigidly conventional. The use of boy was de-emphasized: the eighth edition of the handbook was titled simply Scout Handbook and the new strategic logo used Scouting/USA. Much of the Scoutcraft information and requirements were removed, replaced by information on drug abuse, family finances, child care and community problems. Conservation included both urban and wilderness areas. The concept of the personal growth agreement conferences was introduced as a requirement for each rank. Under the new program, a Scout could reach First Class without going hiking or camping or cooking over a fire. The program was modified for a system of immediate recognition. Individual rank requirements were supplemented with skill awards recognized by metal belt loops. Ranks and merit badges were to be presented immediately, and recognized later at the court of honor. The merit badge programpreviously only available to First Class and abovewas opened to all ranks, and merit badges were required for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class. The number of required merit badges for Eagle Scout was increased to 24, and Camping merit badge was dropped from the required list. The entry age was changed to 11 or 10- if a boy had finished fifth grade. The Senior Boy Scout program was replaced by the Leadership Corps. Initially the Leadership Corps was limited to leaders 1415; older boys were expected to become junior assistant Scoutmasters or move to Exploring. The Leadership Corps could wear the forest green shirt with a Scout BSA strip until it was discontinued in 1979. The Leadership Corps patch was worn in place of the patrol patch, The first version of the patch was trapezoidal, replaced by a round patch in 1987. The red beret was initially introduced for the Leadership Corps, and extended for troop wear in 1973.[20] Troop Leader Development (TLD), adapted from the White Stag Leadership Development Program, was introduced in 1974 to train youth leaders.[21] The Cornerstone program was introduced to train adult leaders. Leaders who completed the course were recognized by a special version of the leader's emblem that was embroidered with mylar thread, giving a shiny look.[22] 1972 saw the introduction of new colored cloth badges for all ranks and positions, the new Webelos badge was introduced and the old badge became the Arrow of Light. In 1973, most Cub Scout leadership positions were opened to women, and in 1976 the Cubmaster, assistant Cubmaster, and all commissioner positions were opened.[23] From the early 1920s, the BSA had been divided into 12 numbered regions, each designated by a Roman numeral, which consisted of territories of several states. The 12 regions followed the organization of the federal reserve system at that time. In 1972, the 12 regions were consolidated into a new alignment of six geographic regions (Northeast, East Central, Southeast, North Central, South Central, and Western). In 1976, concerns over the lack of emphasis on Scoutcraft and declining membership lead to the discontinuation of the Improved Scouting Program and introduction of "All Out for Scouting", a back-to-basics program developed by William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt. The program was launched with "Brownsea Double-Two", a week long course for the senior patrol leader who would then introduce the troop-level "Operation Flying Start" to their units.[24] Junior Leader Training (JLT) replaced TLD and Brownsea Double-Two in 1979. From a peak of 6.5 million Scouts in 1972, membership declined to a low of 4.3 million in 1980.[25] Hillcourt returned from retirement to write the ninth edition of the Boy Scout Handbook in 1979, returning much of the Scoutcraft skills.[26] The number of Eagle required merit badges was reduced back to 21, and Camping was restored to the required list.

You do know why Baptists don't have sex standing up? Someone might think they are dancing. I'm guilty of crude statements to garnish attention.

I agree, the concept of sinning, repenting confession, etc. does not belong in the Scout program proper. We have the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Does a Scout who is going to turn 18 tomorrow "sin" by not joining the Army and thus do his "duty" to country? Hopefully, most of you will say no. Sin is a religious concept that has only an obtuse relationship to right and wrong. There have been many times my kids wanted to do something that was in their mind an acceptable behavior even while they knew it is a sin. . . . I guess what Im saying is that I tried to teach my kids to feel guilty for even thinking about making the wrong choice. You sound like my very "Catholicized" wife! Yes at a very young age, as a child, we shouldn't try to make every action a cerebral event. But come on, I expect my 16, 19 and 20 year old "kids" to act appropriately not because someone's book labels an act a sin but because in their mind, they should have an intrinsic feeling for what is right and wrong. Teaching your children to feel guilty for even thinking about making the wrong choice doesn't sound very healthy to me although I will agree that the concept of shame seems to have vaporized from our society.

I get crotchety in my old age when many of the parents don't really want to volunteer to do anything useful - drive, help out with outings, run to the Scout shop, teach a merit badge, etc. but since they brought their kid to a meeting and are now bored, seem to be more than willing to kibitz at a PLC, committee meeting, etc. Yes, all parents should be allowed to observe these meetings but sometimes it is easier to limit someone's attendance than to try and limit their behavior when they are already there.

Again, the Scoutmaster's response (told third hand now) was Has your son asked his patrol leader? Things missing from this story are: 1) Where and when was the question asked? (where do the patches all go?) 2) Was there a follow-up? 3) Did the mother reply to the Scoutmaster's question? Again, I ask, what should be the response of the parent to the Scoutmaster's reply?

Not condoning it of course. The point I was trying to make was to those who state that the government shouldn't have anything to do about who gets married to whom is that the government, right or wrong, already has on the books laws that differentiate between married and unmarried couples so that argument is flawed. Hey, as soon as governments - city, county, state, etc. figure out there is tax dollars to be made by sanctioning marriage, katy bar the door!

Just following Godwin's Law . . . The Nazi's banned marriage of Jew/non-Jew and also forced sterilization on those not deemed fit to procreate. So marriage as a right is not quite universal. The state is already in the marriage business given the fact that tax laws are very different for single and married individuals. So, if the state wants to get out of the "gay marriage" debate - it should change tax laws.

My timeline went something like this 1) Son #1 Ordeal 2) Dad Ordeal, son #1 Brotherhood 3) Dad Brotherhood, son #2 Ordeal 4) Son #2 Brotherhood It was neat having my oldest ahead of me. It was neat being able to see my younger son's Ordeal and Brotherhood ceremonies. I would not recommend "doing" an ordeal together, even though our lodge keeps adult and youth clans quite separated during the ordeal weekend. I think for OA, it is something one should do without a family member.

I totally agree with the response of the Scoutmaster. What should be the response of the parent to the Scoutmaster's reply?

Keep your personal grief to yourself. This is a double edge sword. You don't want to give the impression that you have no grief or are incapable of experiencing grief. So, don't hide it. However, I've seen married folk lose a spouse and their grief is intense and they totally forget about their children. Yes, you've lost a husband but your children have lost a father and they need their mother at a time like this. Can be a difficult situation. My father died, quite suddenly when I was 27. Years later, after I was married with three kids, my mother passed away when I was 45. My second son had just turned 9. He told me something that was somewhat shocking and somewhat amusing. He asked me if I was now an orphan. I told him yes, I guess I am but more importantly, that he had nothing to worry about, his parents were going to be around for quite some time!

Conversely, don't get me started on how many times well meaning moms and committee members felt like they needed to attend PLC meetings to "help out" and then always tried to use as a trump card the "no closed meetings" so called "rule" in the BSA. Yes everyone should be play nice but their are reasons for these so called rules. As a Scoutmaster trying to pull some leadership out of the boys, it compounded the difficulty when a bunch of mom & dads, who really don't understand the BSA program would want to attend everything.

The only reason for an SA to attend a committee meeting is if the SM delegated that function to them.