Eagle94-A1

You forgot #4: Volunteer is replaced in their position by someone who will do the professional's will (Not only have I seen this, I was even encouraged to do this when I was a DE to have more compliant members of the district committee) #5: Pro, specifically SE, finds some reason revoke volunteers membership ( seen that happen twice, and it almost happened a third , all because the volunteers he did stand up to the professionals) As Desert pointed out, chairman have been usually figureheads who do the professional's bidding. Heck I was even told to look for malleable people of influence and affluence by my SE back when I was a DE. Personally I would rather have a loyal opposition who had the best interests of the Scouts as their #1 concern. I know when I was DE, there were indeed challenging meetings with disagreements. But everyone respected each other since we all shared #1 goal.

I am very glad to hear your council does things like it is suppose to do. Sadly not every SE does that. I can tell you in my some councils I have been in, pros will ignore volunteers in charge of activities, make additional demands, and even overruling volunteers who are in charge of events to the point that they take over. It has gotten to the point the point that some longtime volunteers no longer have anything to do with the council because of the professionals.

One parent was so made that the son was enlisting in the USAF that not only did they refuse to write the letter, but also kicked him out of the house. He was delayed entry, and spent his senior year living with the SM and his family. It was a mess.

As a former professional, and a district/council level volunteer in several councils...

When Venturing came out in August 1998, it was never about advancement, it had recognitions. Do the professionals at Nationalhave any experience in Venturing?

While I agree some salaries do need to be cut, I can tell you that I had former coworkers leave the profession, and double, and in one case triple, their salary based upon the DE experience alone. So we do need to be competitive to keep good professionals. But some of the salaries do seem outrageous.

Yes indeed. I remember one assistant manager who was trying to get a manager position in another store and used our manager as a reference. I happened to be in the next room when the manager received a call about the assistant manager, and the manager downplayed the performance of the assistant manager. Reality was the assistant manager was carrying the manager.

@TMSM, Sounds like you are really concerned about showing favoritism and/or interfering with your son. I was in that situation a few months ago. After my son presented his project to the Eagle board, and got it tentatively approved, I had a chance to speak with one of the board members who is a long time friend about my concern of interfering. He reminded me how I helped his son with his Eagle project back in the day, and simply said do the same things I would do for any other Scout. So if one of your Scouts came to you saying he was having challenges with the Eagle coordinator, how would you handle it for them?

Which committee are you referring to as different areas do different things: Troop Committee, or District Advancement Committee? Regarding the Troop Committee, first not every unit has an "Eagle Coordinator." So that is obviously not needed, BUT if he has one, I would use it. From what I have read on the position, they should be helpful. But again I have never been in a unit that had one. Second, the full committee doesn't need to approve the project, just the Benefiting Organization (BO), the SM, and the CC. So while the troop committee does not need to approve, I do think it is a good idea to talk to them and get their input IF possible. I'll why explain under District Committee. Third, I would NOT (emphasis) just send the proposal to the CC, or if the troop committee is involved them as well. I recommend setting up a meeting with the CC and/or TC to discuss the project, get ideas on improving the project, get ideas on challenges, etc. If changes need to be made, make them and get the project signed off. Regarding the District Advancement Committee, or as they call it in my locale 'The Eagle Board," once all the signatures I mentioned above are signed, it then needs District Advancement Chair (DAC) to sign off. The entire district advancement committee does not need to approve it, BUT I do recommend presenting it to them for several reasons. First, I know of two cases where the DAC either denied Eagle because he did not approve the service project or made it know that he was reluctantly accepting the project because it was approved by his predecessor, and he had no choice to accept it. How do you think those Scouts felt hearing this? I know I was ticked off, and wanted to know the appeal process because I did everything by the book, and the DAC that approved my project was on the EBOR, so there was no reason to deny it. And my friend was not to happy either. IF the entire committee sat in on the approval process, I do not believe the situation would have occurred. Second, the full committee will provide input that the Scout, and others they have talked to, may not have though about. I know when my son presented his project to the district advancement committee for the DAC's approval, they came up with concerns he and others did not think about that he and I both were glad they mentioned as two concerns would have cause serious issues had he proceed without being aware of the concerns. The delay in approval was only a week, and then it was just a matter the DAC signing off once the questions were answered. That one week saved a lot of money and several weeks of time. Agree with this 110% My son's project was at the hospital I work at. there were a few things I had to act as liaison for him.

My concerns with "Family Camping" or 'Family Scouting" is based upon what I saw first hand happen too many times over the years. But most significatly with my last troop that was turning every camp out and activity into a family camp out. The parents, two of which were "trained'" constantly kept interfering, would not let the PLs and SPL do their jobs, constantly allowing their sons to sneak out of the tents and/or shelters ( essentially abandoning their tentmate/buddy) and sleep with them, ad nauseum. When counseled and mentored on the problems they were causing, they ignored the SM and ASMs trying to work with them. Finally when corrected, they give ultimatums about leaving, which leaves the troop in a lurch at some activities, or leave altogether. Morale was getting lower and lower among the Scouts, as well as the experienced Scouters. My family left as the older two and I had enough, and I was not about to put the youngest through the hot mess that was the troop. The only thing that saved the troop was the COR getting involved and stating only trained SM and ASMs will be going on trips from now on and not families. COR was a little hesitant to get involved, but knew somehting had to be done to fix the problem or more Scouts and Scouters would have transferred. So I am not "Get over your attitudes ." As others have stated, Scouting is a YOUTH DEVELOPMENT ( emphasis, not shouting) program, and not a family program. Cub Scouts I don't have a problem with family camping, Heck my wife and I enjoyed it. But Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing is pure youth development, and parents and siblings tend to be a hindrance in that.

To paraphrase the late Princess Leia Organa Solo, The more National focuses on family camping, the more Scouts will slip through their fingers

I know of 1 situation where someone had a criminal investigation by law enforcement, and they could not find anything to substantiate the claim so no arrests were made. Many people who knew the "scout" had serious doubts about his story because he had a history of lying when he had been caught. And the person he accused caught him being a peeping tom after lights out in the women's shower area. I should know, he lied about me, saying I gave him permission to stay out after hours at a NOAC one year, when I was trying to bring him and the group he was with back to where they was suppose to be before they scattered to the wind. He was allowed to remain in Scouting and receive Eagle. She had her reputation ruined, and was permanently banned from the BSA. And Scouts in the district lost a phenominal Scouter.

The #1 solution is FOCUS ON YOUR SCOUTS! (emphasis ) I have been involved on district and council committees for a long time now, and I have burnt out. I had to deal with adult issues in a troop, and was slowly turning into an angry Scouter. The #1 thing that kept me going was MY SCOUTS. I could have a bad day at work, and MY SCOUTS would turn me around mentally. I could be dealing with problems, and wanting to skip the meeting, but MY SCOUTS would cheer me up and make me forget my problems for a while. Focus on who you can help directly< YOUR SCOUTS. Reminds me of one of the camp directors I worked for. Whenever a staffer came to him with something the staffer thought was major, he would ask, "Is anyone dead? No, then is anyone going to the hospital? No, then we don't have a problem, we got a challenge.

Once upon a time in Sea Scouts at least, there was a program for Sea Scouts who were not Boy Scouts to earn both Quartermaster and Eagle. In fact I have seen Eagle badges with the white and navy background for Sea Scouts to wear.

Anyone else note the drop in Venturing? 59.7% drop in Venturing and Sea Scouts since 2016. 74.9% drop since 2012.

I too hope @Cburkhardt is correct, but to quote many characters in my favorite movie franchise, "I have a bad feeling about this." I'm a former pro, and know that units can still be listed as "active" up to 2 months afters the expiration of recharter, unless things have changed since I was a DE. That is because there are sometimes paperwork issues with the recharters, and other times the staff get overwhelmed with the process. I vividly remember the Scout office being "closed" for Christmas, yet all hands were in the office working on recharters. Everyone able to process recharters was on a computer doing so, and the rest of us was doing whatever it took to support them. We were lucky, we were able to get every charter either processed, or fully prepared and paperwork issues resolved on Dec. 23rd, otherwise we would have been in on the 24th working. And even with all the work prepared and ready for processing, it still took about 14-21 days after December 31st to enter everything into the system. And I know of a few cases where it has taken longer. So I believe the April Stats will be giving us a more accurate view since some councils use a January 31st recharter date instead of a December 31st date.

It looks like 3 organizations according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_and_Guiding_in_India

Custom orders require 2 to be made.

Why is the committee involved in what type of tents to buy? Back in the day, our QM was responsible for gear selection. He was given a budget and did all the research. Sadly the committee member didn't follow his advice, and bought different tents that were on sale. The bulk of those tents were destroyed on the first camp out, the rest of them on the second. The Scouts know their needs better than adults.

@SteveMM This look VERY similar to BSA pants. Also check out Walmart. I once saw pants that were 95% identical to the uniform canvas pants, and it was approx $20. https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Convertible-Lightweight-Fishing-Trousers/dp/B07M5N1VGX/ref=sr_1_41_sspa?crid=278PX1XRQZ01Y&keywords=green+outdoor+pants+mens&qid=1575567166&s=outdoor-recreation&sprefix=green+outdoor+pants%2Cfashion%2C193&sr=1-41-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE4M1U1NUgwVDFFMTEmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA0MzYyODMzMVlPWElWQkhEM0wwJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA1MTEyNTAyVDBHWldNVDdOVkw1JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Are there any thrift stores in your area? Does your son's troop have a uniform closets that sell uniforms? Is eBay or Craigslist an option? One cool thing about the older Oscar De La Renta pants with elastic, the size was with the elastic fully expanded. You could move up a size, and in some cases 2 sizes, and hem the pants so that you can let out the legs as they grow. Recommended that when i work in Supply, and did that with my sons' pants. I know way back in the day, I went to a army surplus store and used pants i got there.

@ianwilkins, I thought it was because he was a sneaky son of a gun of an intelligence officer who caused panic German Intel folks during WWI. Abwer were seriously concerned about him, evan at his age.

Also if BP was an avowed fascist, A) why would he petition to get the German Scout associations out from under the Hitler Youth, and B ) why was he on the Nazi's most wanted list if OPERATION SEA LION would have occurred and successful?

Yes it's complex, and many faceted. And I admit, you need experienced volunteers to help units with program. But what happens when you have volunteers with 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60+ years of Scouter experience who raise concerns and questions, and are ignored, browbeaten, or worse, expelled from the movement? I've seen all three happen, including the expulsion of a longtime volunteer who discovered some financial irregularities. When volunteers do not feel appreciated, they leave. When volunteers are overruled on things, they leave. When volunteers feel like they have been lied to, they leave. Mark Stinnet is the best public example of this. Over 40 years as a volunteer, served on the National Philmont Oversight Committee, and not only was he informed of decisions AFTER THE FACT on something HE HAD OVERSIGHT OF, he was then ignored and told he does not know what he is talking about when concerns were raised . A lot of long time Scouters in my area feel that they have been ignored and lied to, and they have walked with their feet. And when experienced folks leave, there is a very large place that is a void. Many excellent organizers and trainers have left altogether, while some are now focusing solely on their units. People who loved and supported the BSA for years, and some cases decades, no longer want anything to do with the BSA because of the professionals at National. And that hurts everyone.

So you are saying these are not issues? How do expect new adults, especially ones with NO (emphasis) Boy Scout/Scouts BSA experience to provide a productive program for the youth. Training should be the answer, but it is a joke as others have pointed out. I have seen "trained" adults nearly destroy troops. Remember this is a brand new troop, only in existence since February 2019. It is one of the hundreds that have arisen this past year. The only experienced Scouter is the SM, everyone else is new to Scouts BSA. But every adult is "trained." Apparently there was was some "discussion" among the the "trained" ASMs scheduled to go camping and the "trained and experienced" SM who worked with the youth, and got them prepared to go. The "trained" ASMs had no experience cold weather camping. The "trained" ASMs had been camping since March, including summer camp. Plus their time with Cub Scout family camping. Plus SM had been working with his Scouts, and his ASMs, on the matter. The Scouts were indeed ready, it was the "trained" adults who were not. Why "back to basics" training, training that is no longer done, is so vital for having a productive program. Especially with all the new troops coming into existence. ITOLS is suppose to "" Futher I am sorry, but something is wrong with the training program if "trained" adults do not want to go camping, except for health, safety, and emergency reasons. And don't try and blame their trainers, I know them well. I helped trained them, and used one of them as staff for my ITOLS course. The other took over my job as Training Chair. Yes, a Scouter with drive and vision is important. But Scouters having the Knowledge, Skills, Abilities that come from both TRAINING and EXPERIENCE are vital to the success of a program. When a bunch of "trained" but inexperienced ASMs argue with the trained and experienced SM, and force his hand to cancel a trip by pulling out at the last minute, there is a problem. BSA's current training syllabi are no effective and need to be redone. But I know that won't happen unless changes at National occur. I, and other former pros, know BSA's corporate culture regarding volunteers: recruit ones that agree with you 100% and use them until they burn out or they start disagreeing with you and need to be removed. I was encouraged to use that approach as DE. I saw it in several districts and councils I was involved in. I have friends who have been involved on the regional and national levels that this has happened to them. Until someone at National realizes academic theories are not working, and BSA needs to get 'Back to Basics" and folks on the committee are all on board, change won't happen. So I do not blame the volunteers, but the professionals.