Eagle94-A1

Last night I sat on an Eagle Board of Review. I admit I was surprised when found out who it was because I had not seen them in 5 years. I admit life threw him and his family some curve-balls and could understand why he wasn't around. But the shock involved weekend and long term. Found out that his troop goes to the same 4 places all the time, and they are in conjunction with merit badge universities. That is definitely the troop's fault. BUT here is the kicker in the 6 years he has been registered as a Scout, he has never been to a week long summer camp. That's right... NEVER BEEN TO A WEEK LONG SUMMER CAMP! (emphasis). I wondered how he could ever earn Camping MB, and looked it up. A week long camp out MAY (emphasis) be used to meet the 20 days and nights of camping. So who failed the Scout: Troop, National, or both?

Lots of good advice. A few other thoughts. 1. Contact the council to get a transcript of their advancement records. I have seen Scouts get delayed because council records were messed up. 2. MAKE COPIES OF EVERYTHING! I have had a Scout "never turn in the paperwork." when he had a photo of him turning in the paperwork. Another time a Scout's BOR signed application was "never turned in," when the paperwork for the other 2 EBORs that night were received and processed.

I think folks are forgetting the origins of the Boy Scouts. The program was designed to allow Scouts to do things on their own or with their patrols. Anyone remember the First Class journey requirement? It was a 14 mile round trip journey by foot or boat.It could be done by yourself or with another Scout. And it cold be all day, or include an overnigt camp out. Venturing is not what Scouting should become, rather Venturing is what Scouting use to be. The purpose of Scouting wasn't to earn ranks, but develop independance and skills needed for life. The Ranks just showed what skills you had mastered and what you were capable of doing. Advancement wasn't the whole focus of the program like it is today. And I am afraid for Venturing. Not only has its numbers dropped, the powers that be at National have started make it more like Scouts BSA. Instead of awards, they now have ranks. While there has always been a recommended uniform, there is a greater push for it now. And there are some limits as to what they can and cannot do. When I was in college, it was starting a outdoor r. I mentioned the advantages of being a High Adventure Explorer post, but no one was interested because of all the BSA's rules. As others stated, they could do the same activities on their own.

It is extremely challenging. Not only are you responsible for keeping up with all their advancement, you are also responsible for teaching them and supervising them. One experienced Scout to 8 new Scouts and you will get overwhelmed. And the new Scouts will get frustrated. Compared to a Traditional Patrol where an experienced Scout buddies up with a new Scout to teach and help supervise.

And NSPs are an adult organizational concept. In one trop I was in with that used NSPs, scouts from 4 different packs were put into a NSP. Some of those Scouts joined with the intent of being with friends, who happened to be in different patrols. It was not a good year in the troop. One of the complaints, among many, we had back in 1986-87 when we were the guinea pigs trying out the NSP concept. While not everyone will be a Scout, if you deliver the promise, the outdoors, they will come. If you have a true youth led program, instead of adults conctantly overruling and contradicting the youth leaders, it will be successful. Troop I am currently with has 2 Scouts were never in Cubs. Agree, if it is no the Scout's idea to be in the unit, they will come up with any excuse. Worse, they will cause major problems that affect the other Scouts. THIS!

This^^^

My thoughts. I. HATE. NEW. SCOUT. PATROLS! In 34 years of seeing them used, I have never seen it used successfully. Either the Troop Guide, or Patrol Leader as I was called when my troop was asked to try it out in 1986 before it became the recommendation in 1989, gets overwhelmed working with bunch of new Scouts by himself, or adults need to intervene so much that it becomes Webelos 3. OPERATION FIRST CLASS, as the idea was originally called in 1989, is based on skewed data. More on that later

I am going from memory here, so bear with me. The COR or IH must write a letter with name, and if possible the membership ID, to the Scout Exec and Registrar stating the person is to be removed from the unit charter.

Regarding the handbook, my council finally got the boy's version.They tried to sell me one, and I told them I needed it last year for the youngest. While there is some good information in the book, there is so much more current information available online. I mentioned how those "New" books are already outdated as there have been 2 sets of requirement changes since the girls' version came out. In all honesty, the BSHB is more for record keeping than anything else nowadays. Which brings me to why I understood BORs requiring the BSHB: IT IS THE ORIGINAL OFFICIAL RECORD. (emphasis added, not shouting). The Advancement Report, Troop computer tracking system, Internet Advancement, council records, ad nauseum all must agree with the signatures in the Scout's book. If there is ever a discrepancy in any records, EVEYTHING NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED TO THE DATE SIGNED IN THE HANDBOOK. (again emphasis) Over the years, I have seen unit and council records messed up. Most of the time easily corrected and with no rush, but twice now I have personally seen the incorrect council dates delay a young man earning his Eagle. In both cases, the handbook was used to used to correct the council records. So having the book at the BOR so that the Scout can be signed off that night does indeed make sense.

I am going to take this point by point as an example of what some councils are not doing or are poorly doing. Sadly some council camps are not being maintained, despite the willingness of volunteers to provide free labor. Where to begin on this one. I've seen some summer camps be "merit badge mills" will poor program, and everyone on the roster, even if they didn't show up, get the merit badge. I have seen camps that did not have enough supplies for the Scouts, i.e. basketry kits, wood carving kits, carving knives, paddles, etc. With the basketry shortage, Scouts were "sharing kits" each working on half of the project. Worse was the aquatics staff not having enough canoes to take a full class out on the water at one time. But the absolute worst was the lack of undamaged rescue tubes at the pool. One camp did not have a single undamaged rescue tube by the end of the second week. thank goodness I had the old 'hand to hand combat" lifeguard course that taught rescues without equipment. One tube came off the leash and shot away while I was doing an active victim skills checkoff. can you imagine what could have happened if it was for real. Also that same camp didn't have enough staff to run an adequate program. Kinda sad when you are relying on a specific number of BSA Lifeguard candidates to meet the safety regs. IOLS and BALOO are few and far between. And there is a heavy emphasis of doing online training. Which in a rural area can cause problems. He had one person take over 4 hours to download and do YPT2.1 We had to beg to get the syllabus and do live class YPT2.1. let's face it, popcorn is overpriced. What marketing materials? My district has lost so much membership because of lack of recruiting, we are down to 3 packs and 7 troops. When volunteers want to do their own recruiting, we are told NO. I will give credit where due. They are doing this. NO. When volunteers come forward, they either get overwhelmed and burned out, or every time they try to do something, they are told no. And sometimes it is both. Pros are not listening to the volunteers and COs. Sad thing is that it wasn't always like this. SEs set the tone.

I have calmed down enough to comment on the "Freeloader Unit" title that @Cburkhardt uses to describe units "that attend camp out of council, don’t participate in district or council activities, don’t assist the council or district financially (through FOS, product sales or otherwise) and don’t assist by participating in activities or training events." But @desertrat77 pretty much nails it with why units I've been in that are "freeloaders" are they way they are. Further, @Sentinel947 spot on that adding fees will make it worse. When National increased the registration fee, people dropped, and some decided not to honor the FOS payments to cover the cost of the increase. My district is suffering, and we are getting no support from the council. We have been sharing a DE for 7 to 10 years now. To make matters worse, when volunteers get together to organize stuff and get things done, the council interferes and either says "no" or adds so much stuff that it burns out volunteers. Best example is the district camporee. One volunteer organized a work day for folks in the district to go to camp and get it ready for camporee. Council said "NO." Yes, they turned down free labor. A few year back, the DE, without consulting with the camporee co-chairmen or anyone else in the districts involved, decided to add a Cub Scout event at the same time and place as the joint district camporee. When the chairs try to discuss their concerns with having a 3rd event going on {Camporee and ItOLS were scheduled), we were told it would happen or we could step down. Since camporee was a week or two away, I stepped down Sunday morning of camproee.

Sadly I was told by my Director of Field Service, the #2 person in a council, that I didn't need to meet with any of Institutional Heads (IHs) when I was a DE. When I mentioned it was part of the charter agreement, I was told not to worry about it as I didn't have time for it.

Orwell was definitely ahead of his time. Then again, this was something he saw first hand in the Spanish Civil War.

I see that the FAQs still has the incorrect statement that Dodgeball has never been an approved activity. I wonder how much longer it will take to correct that? Any idea @RichardB ?

Don't know about the US Citizenship test, but when I had a group of 5 HS aged Scouts who had Civics already and a 5th grade homeschooled Webelos, NONE of the HS students could talk to me about the various components of the Cit Nat MB, except their favorite monument in DC, which we did the day before. The 5th grader on the other the other hand, did know the answers and could talk about them.

With all due respect, while the training may be only 90 minutes, depending upon geographical location, it may take over 4 hours to download the materials to do the training. I am fortunate in that I have high speed internet at home. But other folks in my district, which is extremely rural, do not have access top high speed internet. One reason why we begged the SE to be allowed in person YP training, and had a group of about 12 from all over attend.

There are a lot of variables in the openess issue IMHO. Sometimes the pro's know the issue will be contentious and they don't want to deal with it until they absolutely have too. I put the Philmont mortgage in that category. Selling a council camp would be another. While a volunteer council committee is suppose to approve these decisions, in reality most committees are "yes men" Another reason for lack of openess is to prevent people from finding out how screwed up things really are. And sometimes that lack of openess applies to the DEs. When I interviewed and looked at information at my job interview and first planning conference, a lot of things that another council did when I interviewed with them didn't happen. It was several months into the job that I found out the full extent of how screwed up the council was. Sometimes the lack of openess is because the professional does not have the capability to change things directly. They work behind the scenes to correct matters to the extent possible so that those parts of the movement that are working, that are making a difference, do not get damaged by the revelation of issues. Sometimes the lack of openess is the result of prior experience. I know one SE who as a DFS with 2 FDs and 12 DEsunder him that encountered a problem, revealed it, and fixed it. His reward: "promotion" to SE of a council of 1 FD and 4 DEs.

"Impressive. Most impressive."

YES!!!!!!!!!!!! At one accident I was stopped and provided first aid at, the first person on the scene wanted to take off the motorcycle helmet off the potential spinal injury. The girl I was dating at the time, myself, and two others who approached the scene at the same time we did heard the initial person say he was going to remove the helmet, and all 4 of us screamed "NO" at the same time. That's when the other couple announced they were an ER doctor, and a trauma nurse. Taking off the helmet would have required moving the head, which was not an option.

I had one of those clown/know it all Scouts in an Indian Lore MB class. I didn't intentionally mean to shut him down, it just happened. We were discussing games, and the topic was lacrosse. He asked which is the more dangerous: lacrosse or rugby. At first I told him, "I don't know." and the smirk on his face appeared. Then thinking about it I said, " While the joke with rugby players is 'give blood, play rugby," there are still rules and no consequences for losing. Whereas for some First Nations, lacrosse is called "the little brother of war." There were little to no rules, violence, injures and even death on the field can and did occur, and for some nations the losers were enslaved or even executed by the victors. So in my opinion Lacrosse is the more dangerous game." You could have heard a pin drop after that response.And I had no more problems with him.

Seeing this in my CCD, aka Sunday School, class.I teach Confirmation 2nd year, and had most of the students last year. Several I have known since Cub Scouts. It is like pulling teeth to get them to open up and have conversations with.

I've been in that situation once as a youth, and I was completely ignored by the adults in charge. Thankfully it was not anything as major as a potential spinal injury.I did what I was told, sit down and be quiet. I was 12 years old when that happened. Yes it was hard to talk to the teachers and parents on that field trip. Thankfully someone with training eventually took charge. It did get easier as I got older, but that had to do with training and experience. At 16 and a certified lifeguard with CPR and first aid certifications needed for the job, I was able to take charge of a situation from adults until emergency services arrived and transported the victim to the hospital. My age only came up when I was asked to drive the victim's car to the hospital. I had not received my license yet. Having the scenario of a bumbling adult is a good one and I think should be used. Also having a peer doing something incorrectly, and having the Scout need to make corrections is also good. With the current American Heart Association Basic Life Support Training, part of it includes how to politely, but firmly correcting coworkers who are doing something wrong, i.e. not switching to 15:2 compressions to breaths for 2 man Infant/child CPR. Sadly I think the problem is a societal one. People tend to equate age with authority or ability. Heck even the BSA has fallen for this. Look how 18-20 year old adults are no longer considered for Youth Protection purposes. But my all time favorite is regarding Safety Afloat, I remember back in the day, non-swimmers and beginners needed a certified lifeguard to be in a canoe. SO when I came back from the UK and went on a canoe trip with the troop about 3 days later, I was a "non-swimmer" because I had not taken a yearly swim test at summer camp. So I had to be in a canoe with a 16 year old lifeguard. Irony is that I taught and certified him as a lifeguard before going to the UK that summer. Now Safety Afloat only requires an adult over 21 who has passed the swim test to ride with a non-swimmer or beginner. Me personally, I'd rather have the non-swimmer of beginnner with a 15-20 year old lifeguard instead of a 21+ adult who barely passed the swim test. I don't know. If the mishap would be life changing like a spinal injury or lead to death, I do not know if I could live with myself if I had the knowledge, skills, and abilities to treat the victim and do nothing because someone older than me told me sit down and be quiet. I did it once because it was non-life threatening, but still had a hard time dealing with it afterwards.

From discussions with pros, friends and experience, it is mixed. Sometimes the SE knows but doesn't tell the subordinates.The DEs and other underlings find out from volunteers who get it from online sources. I know I have upset my SE twice now releasing info on the district webpage has been posted here or on FB, before the council has released anything. But on occasion, SE are surprised too. There was one instance where something got leaked by someone at National and it made the news. I forgot what it was, but it was allover the news. It was being posted here and on FB before SE's were informed. I was told the al SEs had a post 5PM Central time zone emergency conference call, and the DEs got one as soon as it was done

My understanding was that it was allowed for LDS units.

I once sat on the Vigil Committee in my role as chapter adviser. I remember one outstanding "youth" ( in quotation marks as he was a youth in the OA, and ASM with his troop) with about an 1.5" pile of nominations for him. Needless to say he got Vigil. On question, does the person nominating serve as Vigil sponsor? I ask because I have seen it where the nominee is the sponsor, presenting him as a candidate at the Vigil Call Out. 2/3 people I nominated I sponsored. the 3rd I let his dad sponsor him.