Eagle94-A1

Ok here are some links I have found. And I want to give a shout out to @Kudu and his Inquiry.net website. It has a wealth of information there. And I want to apologize about the wrong year for the 3rd edition of the SMHB, it was published in 1936, not 1929. Ok here to the links that can help. http://scoutmastertroop56.weebly.com/uploads/1/6/8/6/16867144/the_patrol_method_helps_for_scoutmasters.pdf links to a 1938 pamphlet to help SMs. While Bill is not credited, he probably wrote it. http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm Is a ton of resources on the Patrol Method. I believe this is Hillcourt's training regimen. @Kudu, please correct me if I am wrong. Start of the training http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm 1st meeting http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/1st.htm 2nd meeting http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/2nd.htm 3rd meeting http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/3rd.htm Hike http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/3z_hike.htm 4th meeting http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/4th.htm 5th meeting http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/5th.htm 6th meeting http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/6th.htm PLC Camp Out http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/6z_camp.htm As I stated previously, not advancement oriented, but establishing a youth run troop oriented. Kudu also has posted other materials on training Scouts as well. Another source of info is http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/nonfict.html Looks to be Canadian in origin. EH! Hope this helps.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED! Seriously though, I will be looking to see if anyone has posted Bill's stuff to the net. Again I lent my copy of the 3rd edition SM handbook, to a Scoutreach SM to help him out. He used it to start 4 troops that he was the SM for. Sadly when he left the area, no one in the troops stepped up to the plate, and they folded. And I didn't get the book back either.

If memory serves, 2010 was on a military installation. We were their guests.

I don't believe CIA is covered, but I know who to ask.

Typically the CO has a number, do all units it charters have the same #. Only time I knew a CO with 2 numbers was when their troop merged with another, and they decided to keep the other troop's number.

I am going to go on a different tangent regarding Webelos 3, and New Scouts William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt wrote a 6 month plan to teach New Scouts how the patrols and troop should be run. It could also be used to train an adult led troop's PLC to become a Scout led troop. It is in his 3rd Ed. Scoutmaster Handbook from 1929. I don't remember which volume it is in, I lent the book out and never got it back. But based upon my memory, Bill's plan IS essentially how Webelos is suppose to be done based upon my experience as a Webelos, and the training I have done and taught. In a nutshell, the SM initially acts as the PL, or if redoing an existing troop the SPL with PLC, and explains and demonstrates what is expected. Everything, pitching tents, cooking, KP, etc Is initially taught by the SM. Over the 6 months, more and more responsibilities are given to the Scouts until by the 6th month, they are running it on their own. One caveat, because Bill's program is not advancement oriented, but rather skills oriented, if you have girls pushing to get Eagle in a hurry, Bill's program is not for you. You may need to update Bill's plan to keep it current, i.e. no ditching of tents. But when I read it a few years back, I saw it's usefulness to a New SM who was having challenges, and it helped him out tremendously, He started 3 or 4 troops using the plan.

She was not a Venturer at the time. That came afterward As for residency, that is open to interpretation. Does a month or 2 and weekends count? I know 2 state will grant citizenship with a 24 hour stay. Key for me is she is not Canadian, nor a member of the BSA when she got Chief Scout Award.

Secret Service are LEOs. They are covered. They actually do financial crimes and counterfeiting. I am talking about Dr. Robert Gates and the father-son camp out he did while working with the CIA. The CIA is not law enforcement, and hence his body guards should not be carrying while he was camping at a BSA activity officially. No one seemed to have a problem with it.

Actually the G2A covers your question. It states " This procedure also applies to members of the BSA(emphasis added) who, while living abroad, have earned advancement in another Scouting association." Since she was not a registered member of the BSA while registered with Scouts Canada, it doesn't count.

Considering the adult with the body guards is a Distinguished Eagle Scout, and told this story to the CSE and everyone at the 1998 All Hands conference, and nothing happened, I do not think anything you can help.

BSA has contradictory information on this. While the Guide to Awards and Insignia states: Patrol emblem (sic), cloth, many different emblems including one blank to make your own design; Scout, (emphasis added) right sleeve, position. Patrol emblems are 2-inch round emblems with tan border and background. They may not have numbers or letters and can have up to three thread colors. See specific emblem for correct number. Optional for Webelos Scouts if Webelos dens are named. (p. 31 https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066/33066_Scouts_BSA_Insignia_WEB.pdf ) Another official BSA publication, Bryan on Scouting says it is perfectly acceptable for adults to wear them. Here are two links, the first having a response from Peter Self, the then Team Lead of Program Development. He states "...you will not find mention of adult patrols in our literature and why we do not form our adult leaders into patrols in the course of our normal program operations. Having said all of this, there is no specific statement in our literature which prohibits adults from wearing a patrol emblem, but if you compare closely the pictures of the Boy Scout uniform to the adult leader uniforms on the last two pages of the Guide to Awards and Insignia, you’ll notice only a few differences. One of these is the absence of a patrol emblem on the adult uniform.": https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/03/03/the-geezers-aka-the-adult-patrol/ https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/02/23/why-adults-in-this-troop-call-themselves-the-time-lords-patrol/ Personally I do not wear them. They are for the Scouts.

I would not worry about it. National screwed this up when they changed over to green on tan numbers. Besides National did say uniform items from the old uniform and new uniform are interchangeable. While white on red numbers are suppose to be for Cub Scouts and Venturers, Scouts wear green on tan and Sea Scouts wear white on navy now, National did state in 2009 when the Centennial Uniform (CU) came out that uniform items of the Oscar de la Renta (ODL) Uniforms were interchangeable with the CUs. So you could wear green numbers and loops on the ODLs and vice versa. Many units, especially ones with Cub Scout Packs, continue to wear red in my area. Some units do not care what color you wear as National really screwed up on this. I say National scerewed up because of the confusion at the time or CU release was the instructions. It was a "Charley Foxtrot" The Insignia Guide (IG)covering the new uniform came out almost a year after the uniforms were available. Between being revealed in May 2008, becoming available in August 2008, and the IG coming out in May 2009, there were so many different flyers on who wears what that NO ONE, NOT EVEN NATIONAL SCOUT SHOP EMPLOYEES (emphasis) knew what was going on. First everyone in the CU wore green on tan numbers, including Webelos and Cub Scouters. Then it switched to Webelos and Cub Scouters still wear white on red numbers. Then it briefly switched to Webelos and Cub Scouters wore red on tan numbers ( that was for about 3 -4 weeks and they were never made but pics exist somewhere). Then it switched to Webelos wear white on red, Cub Scouters wear green on tan. Then it switched back to Webelos and Cub Scouters still wear white on red numbers. The changes were so fast and contradictory, that I called the national scout shop I worked for in college to get the correct information prior to buying my uniform. I was told by the National Scout Shop staff that the IG was coming out soon and that it would state Webelos wear white on red, Cub Scouters wear green on tan. And that is what I bought: green on tan numbers and the green on tan 'Centennial" trained strip. about 10 days after my purchase and everything is on the shirt, the IG comes out, and states Webelos and Cub Scouters still wear white on red numbers. Fool that I am, I went out and got the updated colored numbers, and ordered the new CU red on tan trained strip, since none of the tan on red trained strips I had already fit on the 'smokes pocket."

As my Latin 3 teacher told us, 'Practice, practice, practice." I wonder what BSA would say about the camp out that had 36 armed adults with automatic firearms, specifically MP5s. Absolutely nothing, except laugh.

This phrase in the G2A says it all: "Youth from other countries who temporarily reside in the United States, or have moved here,.... " Considering she was born and bred in NYC, she doesn't qualify. Actually the local council determines what rank you get, and apparently if teh G2A applies or not.

EH?

If memory serves, this is what she earned in Scouts Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Scout's_Award_(Scouts_Canada)

You know my thoughts on advancement: it is not a race, but a journey. I think National made a good decision on stating the earliest they would recognize any group of female Eagles as I believe it would create more problems in the long term. As for Ms. Ireland, I do not want to reward bad behavior, and that is exactly how she is acting: badly. She has gotten exactly what she has been fighting for, the opportunity to earn Eagle. Now she wants more, she wants work she has done prior to joining to count.

Yes someone made the decision at the council level. Whether it was proper or not, it is done. And National does indeed have a history of not penalizing youth for the mistakes of the adults, even when the youth should know better and there is plenty of time to rectify the situation. But in this instance I hope and pray that National Sticks to their guns on this. Granting her Eagle would be a disservice to every single girl who is currently pursuing Eagle by earning the awards as members of the BSA. But if BSA wants to give it to her, then they shoudl also give it to every female Sea Scout QM , Venturer Silver or Summit holder, and possibly Explorer Achievement and G.O.L.D. awards recipient.

There is much debate on the their use of the GTA policy. Here it is in full: 5.0.4.0 Youth From Other Countries Youth from other countries who temporarily reside in the United States, or have moved here, may register in a BSA unit and participate in advancement. If progress from a foreign Scouting association is to be considered and applied to BSA requirements, then the foreign Scout must meet in person (or over electronic media) with members of the council or district advancement committee, along with at least one adult leader or committee member of the receiving unit. Previous advancement work is reviewed to determine the BSA rank—up to, but not including Eagle Scout rank—the youth is qualified to receive. The candidate must present evidence of membership and advancement from the previous association. Once a rank is determined, it is reported through the BSA’s internet portal for reporting advancement or on an advancement report. This procedure applies to all ranks except Eagle Scout, which is not considered equivalent to any other association’s rank. If it can be established that Life rank has been achieved, then the council or district advancement committee can determine which BSA merit badges may be awarded based on previous effort and experiences that meet BSA merit badge requirements as written. This may leave a number of additional badges to earn— required or not—to achieve Eagle. Requirements for active participation, position of responsibility, Scout spirit, the service project, and the unit leader conference must be completed in a BSA unit. This procedure also applies to members of the BSA who, while living abroad, have earned advancement in another Scouting association. Many point out that whomever granted her Life did it inappropriately as she is not a youth from another country but a US citizen. The key parts of that are "Youth from other countries who temporarily reside in the United States, or have moved here which she did neither. Further, none of the advancement she did with Scouts Canada should have counted since as as US citizen, she would need to be registered with the BSA in addition to another Scouting association. That is clearly stated in the Guide to Advancement. At this point, we can all agree it is no longer a matter of equality, or her earning Eagle. rather she wants to be THE first female Eagle. IMHO, if any girls need to get credit towards Eagle, it is the girls in Sea Scouting and Venturing who followed the rules.

Well if she wants to be recognized as an Eagle for work she done retroactively so she can be the first, I am thinking why not? Then we can go back and retroactively recognize all female Sea Scout Quartermasters, Venturing Silver and Summit recipients as Eagle Scouts and possible the female Explorer Achievement and G.O.L.D. Award recipients if those two awards are comparable. After all, fair is fair.

How about a coffee car? 😛 When I was the camp commissioner at Camp Bonner in NC, I would put fresh coffee in the USGI thermos, pick up the newspapers, and drive to the campsites to delivering fresh, hot coffee and a paper to the SM and ASMs. And since I was a tad bit homesick, I blasted YOU ARE MY SUNSHINE, since it is my home state's official song, to let everyone know I was on the way. Only time I had any problems was LDS week. No coffee, only papers.

My thoughts. 1) As I stated, i saw this work in the UK. One camp was very successful in allowing Scout Association, Girl Guides, School Groups, out of country WOSM and WAGGS units. One camp eventually folded. They followed all camp rules. 2) Local councils have been doing something on a smaller scale and limited. Two councils I have been in had facility rentals, specfically the COPE Course. In fact Marketing the COPE Course to Outside Groups was a point in NCS COPE training back in the day. In the council that allowed this to happen, it was very successful and the cope course has expanded greatly since I ran it the inaugural year. The other course I ran, which was established and in great shape, eventually stopped having facility rentals, and the course is now not certified and an eyesore at the camp. 3) if a council does this, they need to make sure the rules are enforced, and not just selectively. We have a camp that the rules are not enforced. When the ranger has attempted to enforce the rules at some events, he is overruled, and that causes major problems when the same units show up outside the event and complain about being able to do XYZ before. AND IT GETS WORSE. We had an outside group with some members having a connection to BSA. They are use to the rules not being enforced at events, and that group abused the campsite they were in. Cars everywhere, fires where cars were not, and tents set up in the airondack shelters. OH and blocking the path on the outskirts of the campsite. one royal mess. 4)As mentioned, the devil is in the details.

Seen this done in the UK. It can work.

Second Webelos pin. Or we could go back to the original pin design without a color so that the number of pins equals the number of times earned.

If that is suppose to be the case, why is there no Lion pin? Further, why do they automatically become the next level on June 1, but earn the old rank pin?