Eagle94-A1

Don't get me started. Ok I admit, I used a cheat sheet of some sort for ceremonies with names involved, specifically Arrow of Light, AOL, and Call Out Ceremonies. I've used scroll, hidden list on a fan, or my favorite arrows with names on them from a quiver. But Pre Ordeal, Ordeal, and Brotherhood Ceremonies were memorized. I was at one lodge's Ordeal, and they had candlelit podium for the principles to read their lines from. Another Lodge had the four principles, but only 3 spoke, reading their lines. As for candidates violating restrictions, I was furious that we had to separate an adult candidate from the rest of the candidate group, and allow him to complete the Ordeal despite him constantly talking and complaining. But the worse was the group of 10-15 candidates who said they had enough cheerful service and basically sat down and refused to do work that rest of the afternoon. I was glad I had to leave the Ordeal weekend early and found out about that event after the fact.

As some may know, I have been in the OA for a long time. I have served as an executive board member as a youth, and as an adviser in multiple lodges. Even when I stepped down as chapter adviser to focus on Cub Scouts, and working with a troop, whenever I was asked for assistance, I provided it. Especially when it concerned ceremonies. I know how powerful ceremonies can be, and want them to be the most meaningful and special for those in them, and watching them. So last night I was very discouraged at the Call Out Ceremony I attended last night. An adult in uniform, stepped forward, read names off a sheet of paper, and lined them up. No youth were involved except those called out, no regalia, no mention of what it means to be elected into the OA. Nothing I have seen in the numerous ceremonies I've performed, wrote, coached, or saw to make the ceremony special was done. There were a lot of disappointed Scouts and adults present at that ceremony. To rub salt into the wound for me, my two oldest sons were called out. They have been eligible for 4 and 2 years respectively BUT have had no interest in the OA, and always removed their names from the ballot. I do not know what their SM said to them to agree to give the OA a try, but I fear that last nite's disappointment may have gotten them uninterested in the OA again. I found out what happened when the camporee chief, who not only had a son that was called out, but he himself was called out, apologized profusely for the ceremony. Apparently the Arrowman responsible for the Call Out Ceremony did not communicate with anyone about the need for the ceremony. He emailed the the camporee chief the list of new candidates and asked him to give the list to the other chapter's ceremony team, less than 2 hours before the ceremony. No one in that chapter knew anything about doing a Call Out Ceremony. As for my chapter, we no longer have a ceremony team because they no longer can do AOL and Cross Over Ceremonies, which is the bulk of what they did. It seems as if the OA is slowly dying. "Sash and Dash" Arrowman are on the rise. One individual lamented that it appears that getting into the OA is a "gimme" nowadays; something to be checked off on the path to Eagle. It seems as if no one cares anymore as the OA has lost it's uniqueness.

Respectfully disagree. IMHO National, in their quest to have more Eagles have lowered the standards, which in turn has lowered the Eagle Scout Prestige. I remember reading in many copies of the BSHB that to advance you must "Master the skills" Even when that was taken out of the handbook in the 1990s, the Guide to Advancement stated that " The Badge represents what a Scout CAN DO, not what he has done (sic)." to 2019's "The badge signifies that a young person—through participation in a series of educational activities—has provided service to others, practiced personal responsibility, and set the examples critical to the development of leadership; all the while working to live by the Scout Oath and Scout Law." Further evidence of National lowering standards is their willingness to overrule district EBORs and council appeal decisions. Sadly I saw the results of that; an "Eagle" who couldn't have a conversation about anything in his Scouting career. Yes the District realized that the unit, specifically grandfather SM, ASM dad, and CC mom, pencilwhipped his advancement, denied the Eagle, and came up with a plan for him to earn it legitimately. Appeal to council got the same results. National overruled the district and council, stating "you do not penalize the youth for the mistakes of the adults." back in my day it was 'my advancement, my responsibility." This has led to a "just give it to them" mentality. And I just read that Time extensions for Eagle are now allowed if National approves them. Then their is the rise of summer camp as a merit badge factory and MBUs. How many Scouts have gotten MBs they didn't truly earn? I know my oldest got one at a MBU that I as a father made him do the missing requirements so that he could say he truly earned it? Heck we had one Scout this summer "earn" Swimming MB. The SM decided not to submit it on an advancement report, or award him the MB, since there is no way he could have earned it: he is classified as a Beginner.

In my district, none of the LDS Scouts are continuing past Dec. 31st.

While it is not as bad as it could have been, I still have concerns. I hope Nstional does not pull this stunt next year, i.e. waiting until the last minute to announce the change. Hopefully the will announce e the 2021 price hike tonite.

One SE told his council to be prepared for up to $100.

Going from memory. Book had event descriptions which included an image, links and citations to help the scouts prepare, and how it would be scored. Each event had a page. Also had inspection sheets, registration info, and score cards. And short section on sheath knives. The addendum dealt with questions adults, and a few youth, had. To be honest, the adults were more of a challenge than the youth. The scouts wanted to know what the prizes were going to be for the cook off and Halloween costume contest at campfire. All the rest of the addendums were because of adults. Sadly a lot of what I consider common sense rules, i.e. no vehicles in campsites, no boating allowed except for the event, tomahawk throwing is a shooting sport with range rules in place, had to be in the book because of issues in last camporees. Apparently common sense ain't common any more.

I admit I and other adults ran the show. Goal was for the Scouts to compete and have fun. All the ideas for events came the previous camporee's SPL crackerbarrel. I did use the BSA's COMPLETE WILDERNESS TRAINING book by Hugh McManners for source material. As for the book, I admit it was 20 to 30 pages, plus 4 addendum answering questions various adult unit Scouters had. Edited. book had ideas, sources for additional info, and a section on sheath knives. As for knives, I got a Becker 21 kukri for Christmas and carried it that weekend.

HEHEHEHEHE. Last camporee I ran, sheath knives were REQUIRED for several events. It was a wilderness survival camporee. Talk about freaking people out. I had to put out an addendum stating sheath knives are allowed by BSA and state law. I even had to post links to BSA literature and Scoutstuff.org to prove it.

Have your SPL assign one of her Scouts to do research. there are a ton of scripts out there. Also there were some ideas int eh Troop Resources Book if memory serves.

True, but according to National, 2 registered adults over 21 must be present as it is now considered a troop activity.

@mds3d, Eagle Projects being considered a troop activity is a relatively new thing, within the past 10 years if memory serves. As for requiring 2 adults over 21 to be present, that came about October 1, 2018, when patrols could no longer do day activities and meetings without 2 adults over 21 present. Had that discussion with my oldest as we had some challenges getting a 2nd registered adult for his first workday. Worked it out with a neighboring council's council commissioner who worked at the place it was being done at. Between his periodic visits, and other Scouters working at the hospital to see what was up, we had it covered. But we both longed for the days where I and my buddies worked on my project with my mom only providing transportation, and snacks

Do you really trust National? I have been told a lot of things that National would not do over the years, only to see them change policy and do it. And National does not have a history of being Trustworthy. Look at the "Prohibited Activities FAQ" found here: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/prohibited-activities-faqs/ . One Questions is "Q. Why can we no longer play dodgeball? A. Dodgeball has never been an authorized activity in Scouting....." Even after pointing out this error to National by showing them a Scouting.org link it saying it is an approved game and asking them to change the the answer, they didn't. Instead they pulled a 1984 and took down the scouting.org link that showed it was indeed an approved activity, and kept the lie. And Dodgeball had been an approved game since 1911. Pages 312 to 213 of the 1911 Handbook for Boys has it listed as an indoor game for Scouts. So I don't trust national anymore.

The challenge as I see it in my area is that the professionals want it their way, and don't try to change it or you will be removed from your POR at the district/council level. Worse case I saw was being removed from BSA altogether. There are pros who care about the program, and want the volunteers involved. EDITED: There are pros who care about the program, and want the volunteers involved. But there are more who do not, and they tend to be the SEs and DFSs of the councils. They put pressure on the lower DEs. And since DEs have their jobs on the line, it is a lot of pressure. I quit.

Vintage uniforms are allowed. My youngest was in Blue after the June 1, 2015 date. Only reason he switch over to tan and green prior to Cross Over was his older brother outgrew his uniform and sold it to him. As for slides, one thing we did as a pack was give them paracord Turks' Head woggles. For the price of 1 metal BSA slide, I could make 25-30 slides.

Add in Cub Family camping, and it could potentially be longer. My youngest has been camping in the Scouting program since he was 20 months.

That's because the GSUSA does not track their advancement like the BSA does. They even admit that.

Last cost increase was approx 50% I am hearing everything from $50 to $125 now, which is 51% to 378% increase, with one council anticipating a 300% increase. That is not chump change for some families with 1 person involved, let alone those families with multiple registered. There are families in my area, long time Scouting families I might add, that are looking at alternatives.

That's why some families do not do swimming and other sports, they cannot afford it. EDITED: And some families have stated that depending upon the new fee, they may be unable to afford Scouting as well.

or clothes for work/school, doctor's visits....

In my neck of the woods, median income is approx $37-42K, depending upon which set of stats you use. There are a lot of families that can only afford Scouting. one council's SE sent out a letter to expect up to a 300% increase. And I heard from another person the fee could go up to $125. Grant you it is all speculation at this point.

I am pushing oldest to finish Eagle before Dec 31st. Hopefully after this weekend, 1 MB left and BOR. Depending on the fee, an if I can get aid or not, I may stay. I may give middle son 1 year to get Eagle. I hate that. As for youngest, may move to Trails Life. Overall I see a lot of units folding, and membership plummeting in my area.

We are now sending stuff certified mail.

Was talking about this topic last night at the meeting. SM is having a hard time sitting back and letting the Scouts screw up. But he knows that mistakes are the best learning opportunities. I told him that it was because the adults did not follow the Scouts at camporee and coach or tell the Scouts how to do stuff that most impressed my wife. Watching the troop in action removed reservations she had about them.

I am told that my council will no longer allow Scouts to photograph turning in Eagle project books and applications because people have taken photos , and then the counci loses them.