Eagle94-A1

ISP generation has been in the upper levels of BSA for some time. They are your national pros volunteers. While you may see a few with the grandkids at unit level, look at the upper level pros and volunteers.

A few responses, and hopefully commentary about council tonite. @nolesrule, "Instapalms" are an example of national not listening. remember 94% of those polled were either against (18%) or strongly against (76%) them, yet they still happened. and I know they are here to stay. As for OA issues, while some of the mandates have come from adults, the overall descent of the OA appears to be nationwide. @InquisitiveScouter I kid you not about the MBs! I may be off on the number (old age is getting to me), but this was in one webinar/national online event. @n

So as some may tell, I have been a "Negative Nellie" of late. Between the constant changes at national, and the lack of involvement in my council I have had it. And waht is really sad is that I was probably the biggest cheerleader for the council as little as 7 year ago, having drunk the Flavor aid. But National has not listed to it's volunteers. The Instapalms are one I harp on a lot. But look at the Lion Program. Many thought the 4.5 year Tiger through AOL progression was too long. They went ahead and added a Lions anyway. The pilot den in my area started with 10 Lions. They now have 4

True, but if those who took an Obligation are not willing to follow it, and fix the things that are broken, but instead are making the problems worse, is the organization worth saving? There comes a time when one is completely exhausted and overwhelmed by the problems that fixing them is not worth it.

Maybe this is another reason for the OA to die? Why bother having rules if they are ignored.

According to the Guide to Unit Elections, once the SM approves the eligibility of the, and the vote is take, the SM CANNOT (emphasis) change the election results. Page 17 specificily states So f it is not global, then those chapters or lodges are in violation of OA policies.

My DE is apparently recruiting in one area. Instead of starting girls' troop, he trying to send them to an existing girls' troop 45+ minutes away. They do not want to spend the time following the 12 Steps to Starting a New Unit. Instead they are focused on "In School Scouting" units.

Actually there is only one way, before. Once the SM approves the slate of candidates, it is a done deal. I had a SM try to intimidate an election team into changing the results after he approved the candidate. He then tried to intimidate me, cursing and yelling at me as the team and I left his meeting.

A few things. A. Queens Scout, now King's Scout, remained the top award and is given to Venturers/Explorers in the UK. B According to the Churchill Plan all programs max age as a youth is 18. While there was major protest and one of the EXTREMELY few times BSA has listened to volunteers and they did not put it into effect in 2020, they did state that the age mandate can be reviewed in the future.

The BSA will still be in existence in 10 years? Seriously, I also do not think BSA's professional leadership know what to do. As to Volunteers, how often does national ever listen to us? I can count on 1 hand the number of times in the past 30+ years they listened to us. Heck they ignored 94% of the volunteers polled on "Instapalms."

Pretty much the same in my neck of the woods. No support for recruiting, no marketing etc. Worse, district level events have no professional support except ordering patches. And even then, they will short you on the patches trying to save a buck. Only 1 unit had any contact with our last DE, and that was for an FOS presentation.

Know quite well the SE is supreme chief of the fire and can do whatever they want. But you think the SE would ask why there is $90,000+ in the OA account before making it an "FOS donation," ( or maybe it went to endowment, but nethertheless over $90K was moved out of the OA fund) And then when the LA and others question the move, they are removed from office. And when the LEC says that a "tradition" is not something they are interested in because it seems dated, the SE may want to listen and not say " We did it when I was growing up, we're going to do it here." And when 90+

And the SE can do whatever they want. Overrule the elected lodge officers, overrule the lodge membership voting results, move designated funds from whatever the lodge and/or chapter designated them for to the general operating fund, remove advisers who question them, etc. I would say MUCH worse.

I do not know about other councils, but in my council the perceived attitude is you are on your own. Not only is there no support helping existing units that are struggling, but there is no support for creating a needed second girls' troop in my district. There is a lot of interest for a girls troop in one section of my district, but instead of the pros helping start the unit, instead they send them to a units 45+ minutes away one way. It doesn't work like that.

Maybe it is time for the OA to die. First and foremost, it is no longer truly an honor organization. Prior to the 1995 when I became a chapter advisor, the election process limited the number of elected, i.e if you had 2 Scouts eligible, you could only vote for 1 Scout, 3-4 eligible = 2 names allowed, 5-6 eligible = 3 names on the ballot, etc. When the change was made, many of us thought it would degrade the significance of the OA over time. And IMHO it has. Since that time the quality of Arrowman had dropped. I have seen all eligible members of a troop get elected, about 8 of the

Agree with the importance of camps. One of the reasons we had a decent OA chapter was because of the local camp. Between the OA and local units, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars have been invested into the camp. Now that we lost it, no one cares. Going to find out if the chapter advisor was able to divert money from that camp's OA maintenance fund to the campership fund. I doubt it though. I can tell you that mandating the AOL Ceremony and Cross Over Commercial Ceremony helped kill off chapters in my area.

Regarding Natives being offended. Yes, some are. AND some aren't. One of the best powwows I attended had an elder talking about dance to people and showing his regalia over the years. He had 50+ years of regalia, with one item looking vaguely familiar an Ordeal sash: He started dancing as an Arrowman. We had a wonderful conversation about Scouting, and the OA over the years. Best part was for me when he showed up to Grand Entry with his Old Style regalia and is Ordeal sash, and singled me out to show how proud he was of being an Arrowman. Yes, he wore that outfit and sash the entire session.

Respectfully, and vehemently, disagree. While the program SHOULD BELONG (major emphasis) to the young adults who are involved, it doesn't. While chapter and lodge youth leaders have an impact, sadly I have seen some chapter and lodge advisors take over and rule with an iron fist. Worst example was when the Scout exec and lodge advisor wanted to amend the of the lodge's by-laws, which required a majority vote of lodge members to amend. When the overwhelming majority voted against his proposal, the LA point blank stated to all present and voting that "I don't care what you think, this amendment

This is a problem that has been bugging me since before COVID. WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE WEBELOS PROGRAM AND WDL TRAINING? ( caps for emphasis and extreme frustration) Webelos is supposed to be the transition period from Cubs to Scouts, not once they get into the troop. BSA in the 1990s realized the 9 to 12 month Webelos program from the 1980s and earlier didn't work, and created am 18 to 24 month program. When I did the old Cub Scout Leader Basic Training, which was a day long class to train for ALL (emphasis) pack positions, it reiterated the fact that Webelos is different than the ot

I jest because Corps of Discovery was the Venturing Honor Society volunteers created because they could not join the OA. Order of the Golden Dragon was the Sea Scout equivalent.

How about Corps of Discovery? 🤣

On a positive note, I see that 4 youth members are on the committee of 36 members. That is a big improvement from a few years back when it was 3 youth members on the committee of 60+ members. However it is still too many adults, even if I personally know some of them, and in one case worked with one of them back in the day. I know decisions that National has made have ticked off the youth as well as long tenured Scouters. I have seen an entire lodge protest some of those decisions in the past. As for OA being the "All Stars" sadly that is no longer the case, and has not been in quit

Dues covered registration, awards, and other supplies. Pack was old school in that Cross Over was not in conjunction with Blue and Gold. So those who had the Cross Over Ceremony in December or January actually registered with the troops they were joining, not the pack. Ceremony was just that, ceremonial. When youngest Crossed Over, some Cubs were behind for a Dec/Jan. Cross Over due to baseball. Plus Cub Scout Day Camp, which helped a lot with advancement, was cancelled by council that year because they did not want to send anyone to NCS (we later learned the council was in the red, but t

STICK. TO. YOUR. BUDGET! (yes that is me yelling, not at you but the situation). You had a budget meeting, it was open and they didn't show up. If needed produce the emails with the proposed budget, invitation to attedn the meeting, and the minutes from the meeting with approval from those there. $45 per plaque is expensive IMHO. IDEAS FOR THE FUTURE (caps to note edit) Now, some options I have seen. One pack I was with had a guy with a woodshop, and he made AOL shaped plaques. Arrows were purchased and made by the OA chapter. Only thing they paid for was the arrows, as that was

I am so sorry. If the situation is anything like mine, I know all the emotions you are going through, and what you are feeling.