Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Eagle94-A1

  1. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (yes I am shouting my appreciation at you.) This topic really gets to me, and I want as much information as possible. I was fortunate, I was not a victim. However I could have been. My CM was later arrested for CSA. Something didn't seem right with him, and when he moved up to the troop with his son, he became SM, and I was not comfortable and switched. I found out several years later he was in jail. I also had to report/help incidents twice.
  2. Serious question, can you show me the source where you got that? I ask because the research I've done showed that the first mandatory reporter laws were for physicians only, and started in late 1960s. CA was the first state to enact these laws, and gradually they expanded who was a mandatory reporter, and the idea spread to other states. The next group was nurses, then other healthcare providers. Teachers started to be come mandatory reports in the late 1970s/early 1980s (again CA started it if memory serves) and that too expanded to other states over time. Youth group volunteers started
  3. When I did research on this topic a long time ago, the rationale for reporting to the SE, and not directly to authorities, was that different jurisdictions had different definitions of mandatory reporters. Unless you caught them in the act, if you reported an incident, and it was false, you would be held liable and face possible civil litigation. Different states have different laws, and laws change over time. If you read some of the files, there are notations that victim's parents did not want their child to relive the horror in court. So there was no prosecution. As for defamation
  4. And there a families that do not do sports for just that reason as well. As for putting it on plastic, again you have families that if it is a choice between $150 worth of food, or paying for a program your child may not be interested in after 1-2 months, food wins. One reason I liked prorated fees, it gave families time to get money together. And sometimes packs could help out, but that was when the fees were sub $35. $150 is a lot for some units. But not every one. Some councils are not breaking even, and others barely. As for savings plans, that helps long term, but not the imm
  5. Sorry you are wrong. Cost is indeed a major factor in membership loss, especially since national no longer prorates fees to the unit recharter time. The prorated fees allowed folks to try out the program for a 1-4 month period to see if you liked the program and would remain. Asking for $105 national registration and joining fee, PLUS whatever additional fees your council added PLUS unit fees, scares off families real fast. Some council that is over $150. And that doesn't cover uniforms and activities. THEN poor program, and lack of leaders takes effect. I do agree that poor recruitm
  6. Yes she knew what happened to them. Some got lost in moving HQ locations. The bulk thrown away when the storage unit they were in had water damage. I knew about the lost records as it happened before my time. The water damaged ones happened while I was gone. My council is now using records laws to keep stuff the legally required time. Then it is destroyed. I am told a lot of councils have been doing this
  7. One SE told us how to manipulate the nominating process to get the folks who are "friendly" to council on committees and boards. So I wouldn't be suprised. That happened in my council. Local camp was sold. They said the reason was that it was costing almost $70/ camper to maintain. When volunteers looked at the raw data, they noticed the data was manipulated to show a loss. They included capital expenses, and forgot to note the camp was closed for 7 months as a result. taking out the capital expense made it $11/ Camper. But it would have been less because of the 7 months of weekend c
  8. Here's the deal, and I am not trying to be a negative Nelly here. As a former pro, I know what the job entails, and appreciate the good DEs. What do I mean by good DEs, I mean, and in no particular order. 1. They listen to volunteers. 2. They are more focused on The Movement in general, than FOS. 3. They appreciate the volunteers. 4. They are courteous towards the volunteers. I give every new Pro the benefit of the doubt when they come aboard. I have even talked to them about situations and challenges they will be facing when they work with volunteers. For the past
  9. Back in the day when it was under $30K, buddy of mine calculated how much we averaged an hour, and that is not considering summer camp. It was under $3/hour. As for vacation, what's that? Seriously for the 16 months, I had 1 day off, besides holidays. And I only got that day off because when I showed up to summer camp, there were too many staffers. So those of us not needed were sent home AFTER we showed up on Sunday. It would have been nice if they told us Friday afternoon, or even Saturday morning before we left. Since I had no plans for Monday, and the girlfriend was off on Mondays, we
  10. It wasn't just DEs that were insulting, but also FDs, DFSs, and one SE. And what really ticked me off about the SE was that the only reason the event he did this at was a success was the hard work and dedication of one volunteer, who also contributed his treasure knowing Council would not reimburse him, that he ignored. While I have seen a few Pros that care, most of them lately seem to be recent college grads and want a job. At least in my neck of the woods. As for treating volunteers with respect and thanking them, that is a must. When I was a DE, there were times that the volunte
  11. CANNOT. EMPHASIZE. THIS. ENOUGH! (Caps, bold, etc for major emphasis). I t is sad when you ask for help, and the professionals won't help you. Concur, although the last one will be the hardest. Sadly most pros are clueless on programs, and the National literature on Patrol Method has been seriously watered down. My additions. -Respect for volunteers. Volunteers are what make the program happen at all levels: units, district, council, section, and national. I have seen DEs ignore, insult, yell at, and curse out volunteers. I've commented on my treatment by pros on other
  12. It was commonplace in a lot of councils. I heard stories from other pros about folks going to graveyards and using phone books to get names. I know one district had 1/3 of the members and units that were fake. The DE tried his best to clean up the mess, and the SE and DFS were ticked off and forced the DE out of the profession. While I agree it is insane to keep paper units and Scouts, there are some pros who would do anything to get the numbers so they can meet goals and get raises. Same DE was at a staff conference, and thought his SE was telling folks how to spot fake units to fix the pro
  13. Once upon a time, DEs were trained in program. Before my time, it was held at Schiff Scout reservation. When I was a DE, we had 3 months to complete Scoutmaster Fundamentals, Exploring Basic Leader Training, and Cub Scout Basic Leader Training in order to go to PDL-1. Also there was a 1 day mock "campout" where we went ot a camp and did some stuff there. Planning events was also part of the process. But when I talked to a DE about training, it is mostly online now, I have no idea what it covered, but I know it is inadequate.
  14. Regarding why districts are failing, in some cases you got longtime volunteers who have been ignored and abused by pros, and they are fed up with it. They are told they will be treated differently by the new pros, but it is the same old, same old.
  15. While the Cubs may be gone, You have a few, and I stress a FEW, who still treat the Webelos/AOL program like it was originally intended to be: a transition program from Cubs to Scouts. Usually those Cub Scout Leaders are long time Cub Scout leader who were Cub Scout basic Leader trained, or newer leaders who have either trained under, or been mentored by, older Leaders who have been around a while. IMHO, the training for WDLs is the problem as I got rid of that information.
  16. Sadly I know several councils where numbers were fudged. Heck one SE and DFS had a reputation for doing this, and using the DEs as scapegoats to get out of trouble. It was so well known that I was warned to watch my back with them by a SE I knew. As @Ojomanstated, if you want to kill your career in Scouting, be a whistleblower. I have met pros, really good ones IMHO, that found some shady stuff, reported, and were penalized.
  17. If you look at how the pre-2015 structure was created, as well as the older pre- CS Position Specific Training syllabus circa 2007 and older, Webelos was created and expanded to an 18-24 month program with the purpose of preparing them for Scouts. Parents no longer signed off on advancement, guest experts in different Activity Badges were recommended to come in a teach a few meetings to simulate MBCs, utilizing the Patrol Method with a Denner with duties, wearing the Patrol medallion instead of den number etc. When they went from CS Basic Leader training, a day long class covering all p
  18. That is IF, and I stress IF, they kept the records and/or the records have not been lost or damaged. For my troop's 100th anniversary, we wanted names of all SMs. We had most of them, but not all of them. My council did not have the records.
  19. Me neither. Our area is as rural one, with a high poverty rate. Median income is barely over poverty levels. If I had to pay for all three hoodlums, and myself, I could not afford the program, and I drank the council Flavor-aid when they were Cubs. Over $500 on national and council fees alone, then add $180 for pack fees. And I am not including uniforms. The new fees will definitely shrink the program. I am not big into Sea Scouts as I used to be, but up until a few years back, national only supplied patches, not uniform shirts and pants. Why someone said Sea Scouts wore "P
  20. We have not had a feeder pack in about 12 years. Our Scouts recruited by word of mouth, and until recently most Scouts transferred from other troops in the area. We went from48+ back then, to 7 currently on the charter, and one of those ages out this year. We will not be folding this year, but it may happen next year. Because we have not been able to recruit in the schools, we are down to 2 packs in my county. 26 years ago when I first moved here, 10 active packs in the county. We had 11 active troops in the county, with 24-48 scouts each. we are down to 7 troops, with 6-24 scouts each.
  21. Going back to the 1980s and earlier. On a different note, from everything I am hearing, packs are already doing this essentially. Watch retention at the Scout level continue to drop.
  22. In the pre-2015 program, as soon as a Webelos den completed the Webelos Rank, they began work on the AOL. The entire reason why BSA went from a 9-12 month Webelos program in the 1980s and earlier to the 18-24 month program was because studies showed it took the Webelos, and their parents, that look understand the differences between Cubs Scouts and Boy Scouts. I am friends with one of the 411 committee members that came up with the current program design. I asked can we still start working on AOL as soon as they completed Webelos, and was told yes, they shorted the number of required acti
  23. If you read the older literature, I would say pre-2008 but I do not remember exactly when it went from Cub Scout Basic Leader Training to Cub Scout Specific Training, parents are not "do most of the work anyway." Rather they are suppose to start backing off, starting in 4th grade, and let the Cubs do more and more. It was recommended that Parents do not even sign off on advancement. Sadly I am seeing this more and more. Only packs with WDLs with the older training are doing it they way I was trained. Forgot to add, they have better retention in Scouts. I had a similar exp
  24. Unless things have changed in 4 years since I was involved with Cubs, BSA offered all kinds of resources for Den Leaders. In addition to training, there was a "Program Helps" which contained den lesson plans for each meeting. They were great for new leaders as they provided information for everything you needed. As you got more comfortable as a leader, you could use it for a basis for the meeting, then expand up on the literature. Those books were so popular that I had folks from other youth organizations buying them to get ideas for their meetings. As for people, that is what Roundtable
  25. Regarding Pack Fees and Webelos 2s/AOLS, The pack I was did it two ways. The older two were not charged anything except national fee, which transfered over to the troop, Since they were leaving in December and January respectively. Youngest was charged a pack fee, but that was the cost of their AOL plaques in February. They got really, really nice ones.
  • Create New...