Eagle94-A1

Some major donors, think Fortune 500 companies, were being threatened with boycotts. Government agencies with Explorer Posts were targeted with lawsuits for violating the separation between church and state. Which is why career oriented Exploring went under Learning for Life, and more traditional outdoor Exploring became Venturing. Folks targeted the Dept.of Defense or Dept. of the Army (sorry do not remember which) for allowing the BSA to use Fort A.P. Hill, now called Fort Walker, for jamborees.

At least you are in the Eagle database. One of my long time Scouters, whom I have seen his original certificate, medal, and photos, is not listed.

My thoughts. 1. I was promised back in 1998 that SCOUTNET 2000 would change this situation and everything would transfer as you move from council to council. To quote Vezzini... 2. If there is a way to merge numbers, can someone please share the directions? I have at least 5, possibly 6 if national issues their employees ID numbers, and I would love to merge them all.. 3. I know they go back as far as the 1990s. But again the numbers are council specific. So some council may not have used them. My understanding is a national database accessible to all councils didn't come out until 1998, and it was phased in. Some council got access to it in June, others November. And trust me it was a mess.

Sadly almost 100% of the "rumors" I read here and elsewhere turn out to be spot on correct. What I find funny is when I cite documentation from national, or more specifically the court case documents, I get angry looks, and am told I am a rumor monger.

Correct. a large chunk of the national fees is going towards the lawsuit. And yes, folks did target donors. My understanding is that even with the updated policies, those donors are not contributing again which is why councils can add fees. Sadly my council is in the "lacks talent" category. Between professionals not helping units survive, i.e. recruiting; ignoring volunteers, especially your small business owners who are willing to pay for specific, needed things; and yelling and cursing out volunteers they disagree with, multiple incidents at all levels; FOS donations have plummeted. More importantly, you got extremely experienced, and knowledgeable volunteers who say "The heck with council, and quit. Funny thing is, if a Life Scout asks for donations for their Eagle Project, the small business owners who use to volunteer are the first ones to donate. In my neck of the woods, people do not do popcorn because A. it is way overpriced and most folks locally cannot afford it and B. those units that have done it have had some "issues" with council in which council takes a larger cut than they are suppose to. And I already covered FOS.

YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know one event my council did for cubs would cost $30-$40/ person, but that included meals. I never went to that one. The one I went to was $15/ person, with a max of $60/ family. I had a family of 5, so I appreciated the discount. Meals were not included, and we did unit or family cooking. The last one they had, was the last event at the camp before closing. Since "family" was not defined, we had a lot of grandfathers attending and reminiscing about the camp.

Regarding Scout History. Yes the boys were acquiring his military Reconnaissance and Scouting book, especially after the Boer War, and using his work for fun. When he came back from the Boer War, he saw a need for boys to have some type of positive group, gangs were a big problem. He approached the Boys' Brigade to see if they would use some of his ideas for a Scouting division, and they didn't use it. He then did Brownsea Island in 1907, and Bob's your uncle, Scouting is born. He published Scouting for Boys initially in a series of journal articles, and it was a hit. As for Girl Guides, Olave had nothing do to with it until after she married him in 1912. He started it, and had his sister Agnes as Chief Guide, and she edited BP's work to make it suitable for girls. She stepped down as president in 1917, in favor of HRH Princess Mary. And she continued as a VP until her death. Olave didn't get involved in Scouting or Guiding until 1913. But she got heavily involved and in 1918 became Chief Guide.

My thoughts: Summer camp needs to focus on fun and hard to do MBs: shooting sports, climbing, aquatics, etc. I always recommend Scouts taking needed MBs, do some fun MBs, and having a free period. I did summer camp for 3 years as a Scout, ages 12-14. 3rd year was a HA program at the camp and it was blast. I am glad that my sons decided to do the Frontier Action Shooting at the camp they are going to this. Middle son goes to college in August, and I doubt he will be active until December. And this is more than likely the Youngest's last summer camp, despite his age, because he is burnt out. He got fixated on Eagle, earned it, and said he is done. Focusing on Eagle is slowly killing the program.

Sadly the BSA has pushed and pushed Eagle.

I worked a summer in Europe, and the focus there is fun and adventure, not advancement. We had 8 weeks to plan, and those troops take anywhere from 6 to 12 months to plan their summer camps, and they go all out. I personally prefer their way of doing things because it is patrol and troop focused, not MB and advancement focused. I basically used ideas I saw them do: Bike trip = Belgians, Canoes = English, Wilderness Survival = Germans, Feast and BORs = Scots. I would love for the troop to do this again, but they want MBs.

We started work on MBs: cycling, canoeing, wilderness survival, cooking, etc. But the focus was more on activities and fun, especially with COVID. And the Scouts were told in advance what they could earn if they did ALL (emphasis) the work. For cooking, bulk used it for cooking rank requirements, and we had 3 BORs on Thursday night as a result. This is where I did too much.🤨 I did all the activity planning for the camp, brought it to the PLC, and let them add or subtract to it. I also made the schedule flexible enough in that if they needed to change things around, it could be done. Only schedule items I was adamant on was 1) Board of Reviews starting at 6:30 Thursday night because the committee was visiting and we needed to respect their time and 2. We WILL be stopping at an ice cream shop after the first bike trek. : ) They had no problems with that at all. 🤣

Sadly to many Adults and Scouts see summer camp as summer school. We did something very similar in 2020 when covid shut down camps.. While the Scouts had fun and enjoyed themselves, when offered to do it again, they declined because they want those MBs. And one of my adults said doing your own camp is a waste of time because you are missing out on MBs. But I have some good memories, and so do the Scouts.

And when you tell the new BSA indoctrinated leaders how it should be, they do not believe you, make excuses on why it won't work, or tell you Scouting gotta change with the times. Sad thing is National seems more focused on Advancement, than building young adults physically, mentally, and morally. Just look at the questions on various social media about Boards of Review. Yes it is not a retesting. BUT it is a way to insure requirements were completed, and if problems arise a chance for them to fix it. But any appeal nowadays automatically gives it to them saying, "you do not penalize the Scout for the mistakes of the adults." They praise councils that did online MB colleges giving away thousands of MBs. And I can go on. Yes, BP did not like professional cadre. Only professional I can think of that he liked was William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt, and probably becasue he was not only a Scout, but lived theScouting life, trying out his ideas with his troop to see what worked and didn't work. Just like BP did in 1907 on Brownsea Island.

Extremely heartbreaking. And I am glad he is Brave enough to answer truthfully. The answer we usually get to that question is that current YP policies not only treat 18-20 year olds as essentially useless, but also requires them to give up their friends outside of Scouting. They feel National has no respect for their abilities (I'd rather a bunch of 18-20 year olds ASMs to brand new, just crossed over former Cub Scout leaders), and to ask them to give the friends they have made in school, Scouts, church, etc is ridiculous.

Yes a nightmare. My questions include 1. What if a Scout is on a council/unit scholarship? 2. What if a Scout is part of an insurance program (1/2 my Scouts fill out a form and health insurance pays the fees)? 3. What is a Scout pays the fee, but the unit does not reregister on time, or even drops?

Interesting. Back in the day when BSA stopped doing that, at least in the council I was in at the time, I was told by the powers that be that United Way was getting on them because other agencies charged their volunteers.

Look at both the lines on the chart, and job descriptions. Troop Guide reports to the SPL like the ASPL. However, the ASPL assumes the SPL's duties when the SPL is not around according to the job description. So Scout B is in Charge An Aside, the chart is scewed up as the Older Scout patrol Leader doesn't report to the SPL, as they should.

The challenge will be IF there is an accident, and some accidents occur despite the planning, and lawyers get involved, insurance will be looking for ways to not cover you. Sad but true. And the GTSS is suppose to trump all other documents. Me personally tubeing OK as that is explicit, boating, I would stick to calm water.

@AwakeEnergyScouter, Thank you very much for the links. I noticed that the publications and sources you are cited are 2020 -2023. THIS MAY BE EXCELLENT NEWS FOR CUB SCOUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (This time I am shouting, in joy ) I stress the may be (is bold better?) because the current, online Guide to Safe Scouting stills says "Cub Scout activities afloat are limited to council, district, pack, or den events that do not include moving water or float trips (expeditions)." Plus your sources do state: "• Cub Scouts do not participate in aquatics activities on moving water, such as river canoeing or whitewater sports." (2020) But the 2022 article states. "But what about canoeing, kayaking or row boating on still water — water that is calmer than Class I rapids? Yes, but Lions and Tigers are allowed to be passengers only."

@AwakeEnergyScouter As I stated, the caps, bold, etc was for emphasis, not shouting, This is an extremely important topic, and a personal one. Camp I went to and worked at did have an aquatics fatality. Cubs can do ponds, small lakes, and other still bodies of water. ANY ( again emphasis not shouting) flowing and Cubs cannot use it, even "gently flowing." I have seen Scouts and adults have some challenges in gently flowing water. Heck I have seen Scouts and Adults have trouble on a pond when the wind picked up. I have not taken the new online SA course, as I took the live SA class last year as part of the Aquatics Supervision: Paddle Sports Class. So I cannot I cannot comment on that. But I can comment that A. Age Appropriate Guideline also states you need to check out the SA link and B. the Safety Afloat link states Cub Scouts cannot be on moving water. Serious question, can you show me where tubbing on flowing water is allowed for Cubs? Only tubbing I have seen for Cubs is in pools, ponds, and lakes, essentially still water. My concerns for the activity you propose are based upon 21 years in various positions: BSA Lifeguard, summer camp aquatics staff, Cub Scout day camp director, BSA Aquatics Supervision certificatio, etc. BSA has been very clear: no moving water for Cub Scouts. Again up until 2015, Packs and Dens couldn't even do boating activities except at council events. As I stated I went to a camp that had a fatality, and it shut down the entire aquatics program the rest of the summer. One of the things drilled onto aquatics staff there is you follow the rules to the letter. If you do not want to take our advice, ask @RichardB about it. He is the National Safety Guru. We may not like what he says and writes, but he is Mr. GTSS, and we do need to follow it as it is policy. Good luck

Don't forget you cna have out of council and out of state troops. Mine is going out of state, 2 adults' 6 Scouts.

CUBS CANNOT DO GENTLY FLOWING WATER SOURCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (caps, bold underlining and size for major emphasis, now and moving forward) Note the Aquatics Subsection of https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-685.pdf states "Aquatics (See Safe Swim Defense, and Safety Afloat for restrictions based on skills, such as swimming ability, rather than age.)" Safety Afloat states "BSA groups shall use Safety Afloat for all boating activities. Adult leaders supervising activities afloat must have completed Safety Afloat training within the previous two years. Cub Scout activities afloat are limited to council, district, pack, or den events that do not include moving water or float trips (expeditions). " So Cubs are NOT allowed on 'gently flowing" as that is moving water. Whoever is telling you otherwise is incorrect, and the Age Appropriate Guidelines need some clarification . I've seen scouts and adults get into some trouble even in "gently flowing" rivers. FYI, prior to June 2015 CS program changes, the equivalent requirements under the old CS program could only be met at District/Council camps, i.e. day camp and resident, and were electives or Arrow Points received AFTER earning the Bear badge. And some areas could nto do them due to restrictions (Camp Standards required BSA Aquatic Superrvisors running these) When the 411 Cub Scout Committee was revamping the Cub Scout program, My friend on that committee was excited to make it an elective to earn rank. I had to remind him that Cubs were not allowed to do boating activities except at district/council level activities, Long Story short, the 411 committee pushed to allow Packs and Dens to do CS boating activities. One reason why I hated losing the local camp is because it was the only council camp that had a lake and Cubs could do boating.

The first paragraph really concerns me. How many other COs will drop us? The second paragraph infuriates me, hence the emphasis. Either my superiors lied to me about this, or they were lied to by others. But when I was trying to start units This was something I was told to tell prospective COs to help alleviate their litigation fears. This is why I stated the COs needed to be part of the settlement, BSA did indeed make promises to protect COs.

Sadly one NC council I know of had segregated districts up to the late 1970s, early 1980s. 1 DE served the two segregated districts with the same territory. Each district had its own activities and committee, and they did not do joint activities. Sad time for BSA.

Am I the only one who has a bad feeling about AI?