Eagle94-A1

The BSA will still be in existence in 10 years? Seriously, I also do not think BSA's professional leadership know what to do. As to Volunteers, how often does national ever listen to us? I can count on 1 hand the number of times in the past 30+ years they listened to us. Heck they ignored 94% of the volunteers polled on "Instapalms."

Pretty much the same in my neck of the woods. No support for recruiting, no marketing etc. Worse, district level events have no professional support except ordering patches. And even then, they will short you on the patches trying to save a buck. Only 1 unit had any contact with our last DE, and that was for an FOS presentation.

Know quite well the SE is supreme chief of the fire and can do whatever they want. But you think the SE would ask why there is $90,000+ in the OA account before making it an "FOS donation," ( or maybe it went to endowment, but nethertheless over $90K was moved out of the OA fund) And then when the LA and others question the move, they are removed from office. And when the LEC says that a "tradition" is not something they are interested in because it seems dated, the SE may want to listen and not say " We did it when I was growing up, we're going to do it here." And when 90+% of the voting lodge members do not want to change a by-law that is in compliance with national policy, you do not compel the LA to the change is going to happen no matter what the lodge thinks (he learned from the mistake above: have the volunteer be the scapegoat. SE was the one who brought it up and forced the vote)

And the SE can do whatever they want. Overrule the elected lodge officers, overrule the lodge membership voting results, move designated funds from whatever the lodge and/or chapter designated them for to the general operating fund, remove advisers who question them, etc. I would say MUCH worse.

I do not know about other councils, but in my council the perceived attitude is you are on your own. Not only is there no support helping existing units that are struggling, but there is no support for creating a needed second girls' troop in my district. There is a lot of interest for a girls troop in one section of my district, but instead of the pros helping start the unit, instead they send them to a units 45+ minutes away one way. It doesn't work like that.

Maybe it is time for the OA to die. First and foremost, it is no longer truly an honor organization. Prior to the 1995 when I became a chapter advisor, the election process limited the number of elected, i.e if you had 2 Scouts eligible, you could only vote for 1 Scout, 3-4 eligible = 2 names allowed, 5-6 eligible = 3 names on the ballot, etc. When the change was made, many of us thought it would degrade the significance of the OA over time. And IMHO it has. Since that time the quality of Arrowman had dropped. I have seen all eligible members of a troop get elected, about 8 of them. I have seen an entire group of candidates stop working, saying "no more," and still go through the Ordeal Ceremony. I have seen a candidate refuse to stop talking go through the Ordeal Ceremony. we actually had him in a work of party of 2: the adult candidate and an adult elangomat. I have seen Brotherhood eligibility drop from 10 months to 6. And I Now see that a candidate is eligible to complete the Ordeal up to 18 months after their election. As for the regalia issue, For every Native against the OA, I can give you Native pro OA. I mentioned the elder who started dancing due to the OA n a previous post. One of the guys I did ceremonies with was not only Native, but the nephew of a tribal councilman. Regalia, when done right, was impressive and inspiring, The ceremony I recently saw sucked. No other way to put it. Not only were they in incomplete Scout uniforms lacking the medallions ( regret ever mentioning that idea now), they could not even memorize the script. Instead they red off sheets, easily visible. There was no inspiration or memorability.

Agree with the importance of camps. One of the reasons we had a decent OA chapter was because of the local camp. Between the OA and local units, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars have been invested into the camp. Now that we lost it, no one cares. Going to find out if the chapter advisor was able to divert money from that camp's OA maintenance fund to the campership fund. I doubt it though. I can tell you that mandating the AOL Ceremony and Cross Over Commercial Ceremony helped kill off chapters in my area.

Regarding Natives being offended. Yes, some are. AND some aren't. One of the best powwows I attended had an elder talking about dance to people and showing his regalia over the years. He had 50+ years of regalia, with one item looking vaguely familiar an Ordeal sash: He started dancing as an Arrowman. We had a wonderful conversation about Scouting, and the OA over the years. Best part was for me when he showed up to Grand Entry with his Old Style regalia and is Ordeal sash, and singled me out to show how proud he was of being an Arrowman. Yes, he wore that outfit and sash the entire session.

Respectfully, and vehemently, disagree. While the program SHOULD BELONG (major emphasis) to the young adults who are involved, it doesn't. While chapter and lodge youth leaders have an impact, sadly I have seen some chapter and lodge advisors take over and rule with an iron fist. Worst example was when the Scout exec and lodge advisor wanted to amend the of the lodge's by-laws, which required a majority vote of lodge members to amend. When the overwhelming majority voted against his proposal, the LA point blank stated to all present and voting that "I don't care what you think, this amendment will go into effect." sparking protest and outrage. As for professionals, I have seen a SE take OA money designated by the Lodge Executive Committee to improve camp for conclave being turned into the lodge's FOS contribution because the money was sitting there. I do not know what happens at the section and regional levels, but look at the current National OA Committee at the link posted above. Of the 36 members, only 4 are youth members of the OA. As I stated previously, that is better than the 3 youth members on a 60+ national OA committee. That committee made the decision to mandate the cheesy ceremonies for AOL and Cross Over that sparked outrage in my neck of the woods. We had one of the 3 members attend a lodge function since he is from our section. He was constantly being asked why the decision was made, and he refused to discuss to answer the question. So no, the OA does not belong to the youth.

This is a problem that has been bugging me since before COVID. WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE WEBELOS PROGRAM AND WDL TRAINING? ( caps for emphasis and extreme frustration) Webelos is supposed to be the transition period from Cubs to Scouts, not once they get into the troop. BSA in the 1990s realized the 9 to 12 month Webelos program from the 1980s and earlier didn't work, and created am 18 to 24 month program. When I did the old Cub Scout Leader Basic Training, which was a day long class to train for ALL (emphasis) pack positions, it reiterated the fact that Webelos is different than the other Cub Scout programs, parents are suppose to start letting go and allowing the Webelos to do more. Training had language to that end. Even with the old Cub Leader Specific Training, the WDL training had specific language to mark the differences. When New Scouts had issues with transition, it was usually a result of WDLs not doing the WDL Specific Training. Lately I see almost NONE of the Webelos being ready for Scouts BSA, unless they have an old School WDL who went thru the older training. I've talked to, and had disccussons with folks on the topic, sometimes heatedly, because most of the stuff I was taught appears to no longer be part of WDL training. When I reviewed the syllabus, whole sections that should have been different, appeared to be cut and pasted from Wolf and Bear training materials to the point that the word "Webelos" was not mentioned in some sections. I know COVID screwed things up. This problem has been ongoing. Locally I knew what packs emphasized training, and which didn't. And I am seeing even the pro training packs not preparing their Webelos like they used to. We had Webelos visit this past week, and from what my Scouts are telling me, we may get 1 out of the group because the others appeared to have no idea what Scouting is about, or are interested in Scouting.

I jest because Corps of Discovery was the Venturing Honor Society volunteers created because they could not join the OA. Order of the Golden Dragon was the Sea Scout equivalent.

How about Corps of Discovery? 🤣

On a positive note, I see that 4 youth members are on the committee of 36 members. That is a big improvement from a few years back when it was 3 youth members on the committee of 60+ members. However it is still too many adults, even if I personally know some of them, and in one case worked with one of them back in the day. I know decisions that National has made have ticked off the youth as well as long tenured Scouters. I have seen an entire lodge protest some of those decisions in the past. As for OA being the "All Stars" sadly that is no longer the case, and has not been in quite some time. When OA changed election procedures back in the mid 1990s, a lot of old timers predicted what we are seeing now. "Sash and Dash" is rampant, and the OA has lost so much prestige as a result. NONE of my currently eligible Scouts are interested. And the only reason why the last 2 OA members from my troop did it was because Dad was OA back in the day. Between the loss of camps, no inspirational ceremonies, and everyone who wants to be in can be voted in, OA is a pale shadow of itself. As for ceremonies, while they should not be the focus of the OA, they were what inspired members. Between essentially doing away with AOL and Cross Over Ceremonies, to the gradual removal of regalia, we are losing our heart as an Order. I too have kept the Vigil.

Dues covered registration, awards, and other supplies. Pack was old school in that Cross Over was not in conjunction with Blue and Gold. So those who had the Cross Over Ceremony in December or January actually registered with the troops they were joining, not the pack. Ceremony was just that, ceremonial. When youngest Crossed Over, some Cubs were behind for a Dec/Jan. Cross Over due to baseball. Plus Cub Scout Day Camp, which helped a lot with advancement, was cancelled by council that year because they did not want to send anyone to NCS (we later learned the council was in the red, but that is a different story). A few folks went to an out of council CSDC, which was a heck of a lot better than our district's, including the ones I ran. (a lot more support from the council). So the decision was to push Cross Over to BnG that year. My youngest stopped going to den meetings, and instead went to troop meetings as a guest starting in December because he was A. finished everything and B. chomping at the bit to be a Scout with his brothers. The $60 fee ( $72 with BOYS' LIFE) covered registration, AOL awards and plaque. That was before the major jump in price though

STICK. TO. YOUR. BUDGET! (yes that is me yelling, not at you but the situation). You had a budget meeting, it was open and they didn't show up. If needed produce the emails with the proposed budget, invitation to attedn the meeting, and the minutes from the meeting with approval from those there. $45 per plaque is expensive IMHO. IDEAS FOR THE FUTURE (caps to note edit) Now, some options I have seen. One pack I was with had a guy with a woodshop, and he made AOL shaped plaques. Arrows were purchased and made by the OA chapter. Only thing they paid for was the arrows, as that was an OA fundraiser they knew in advance and budgeted for. I think it was $10/arrow and painted to show achievements. Another pack used Hobby Lobby stuff, https://www.hobbylobby.com/Crafts-Hobbies/Wood-Crafting/Unfinished-Wood/Arrow-Wood-Shape/p/80826805 or https://www.hobbylobby.com/Crafts-Hobbies/Wood-Crafting/Unfinished-Wood/Rustic-Wood-Arrow-With-Jute/p/80772806 , added hooks for a decorated arrow that I made. I think it was about $50 for everything which included arrowheads (buy more than you need to get a good selection) As for the $45 plaque, My youngest has one of those. It's nice, but wasn't necessary. Because the pack pushed Cross Over to February instead of late December, first week back of January, we got charged the full dues for the year, with the understanding that the dues paid for the plaque.

I am so sorry. If the situation is anything like mine, I know all the emotions you are going through, and what you are feeling.

Didn't the BSA try that once in the 1970s, and the GSUSA opposed it?

Yes, there are many brands of water and/or flavored beverages, that have screw on lid. wash and reuse.

My advice is to keep copies of all your training records, cards, etc, especially if done out of council. If you can get access to the my.scouting records, print the reports that they completed, and any completion cards they have, and give them to either your district training chair, or registrar. The council registrar can fix the issue. I remember one screw up with records that had NO ONE in the district as trained, including out PTC faculty member. Spent 3 months creating a spreadsheet with everyone's information to submit to the Registar so she could reenter the records. 2-3 year laters, system crashed again. I kept a copy of the original records collections, and resubmitted them.

I am told one of our events has gone rogue. Council took 20% for using their online registration system for the event. And they did not provide a thing except the online registration; no DEs, not MBC lists, no promotion on the website, NOTHING. Rumour had it that the SE was going to shut it down next year, because the council created an event for the same weekend, and he wants folks going to that event. So far, no cancellation, and even if there is troops will be doing their own thing, and not attending the council event. Forgot to add some folks are so disgusted with council, they want to leave. One CO was thinking of using an out of council PO box to register in another council. Others want to make an all black CSP for wear.

Thankfully this patch design was already approved by the council since it was the summer camp design for a number of years, anniversary patches, event patches, etc.

With the exception of the two new guys from another troop, everyone was here when we did our own summer camp in 2020, and they have the MBs we could offer already.

I wish we would so our own, despite all the work it is. I was trying to talk the troop into doing a 50 miler on the AT since summer camps are over $400 this year. Not only did the committee chair say it is not a good idea, but the Scouts did as well. All of them said it would be a waste of a summer because they would not be able to earn any MBs. I really wish National would push adventure instead of advancement.

Unfortunately because BSA is a private organization with the right to select its members, they do not need to acknowledge a CO's investigation, let alone a criminal one, where the volunteer has been exonerated. They can still permanently remove an individual. My friend has never been reinstated in the BSA, despite a criminal investigation being done, and proving her story was the correct one.

Please tell me you did not receive a notice that you are now in the IVF? Good friend of mine was placed in the IVF due to a "scout's" accusation. He said she made a pass at him. She said he was being a peeping time after hours when the ladies had access to the showers. The police investigation found evidence to support her story, yet she was removed permanently from Scouting. As for the "scout," he was given Eagle. Sadly the "eagle" had a history of getting into trouble and lying to stay out of it. A year previously he accused folks of stuff when he was caught after curfew. If it wasn't for his accomplices telling the truth when it came to reporting what happened, three good Scouters would have been placed in the IVF because of his lies.