Eagle94-A1

Don't know the full situation. So I do not know if the SM has reasons or not. What I do know is that because BORs need 3-5 committee members, they need advance notice. I know in some troop's I've been in, you needed to ask for a BOR 1-2 weeks in advance so they could get enough people. In rare instances, specifically EBORs, it could take up 6 weeks between the request and the actual EBOR! Other troops have the BORs scheduled for a specific meeting night each month. That's how my sons' troop is. Since it is the Scout's advancement and therefore the Scout's repsonibility, he needs to follow the directions his SM gave him. And if he's going for Life, he should be able to handle thievery himself. Good luck to your son.

First time I've heard of these websites. I would add they need a better job of advertising them.

David, While we have our differences of opinion, we both have the best interests of the youth we serve. I'm sad to hear that you are stepping down and away from Scouting. But can understand why you may need to step down. Just do me a big favor if you don't mind? If one of your Scouts asks you to attend something like a Court of Honor, especially their Eagle COH, please do so.

My understanding of the LDS program from talking to LDS Scouters and reading their commentary on this announcement is that A) their 11 year old program is a set, repetitive program that is designed to get Scouts to First Class in a year, and is very adult leader oriented to the point that it seems like it is still Cub Scouts or "Webelos 3" and B) there is incredible pressure from LDS leaders on the Scouts to get Eagle before 14. I know I was pressured to get Eagle before getting into HS by my uncle. Thankfully not as much as my cousin was. Also I had a SM who realized Scouting needed to be fun. The more I think about my cousin, the more I can understand him leaving at 13 when he got Eagle.

Forgot all about the flush toilets and showers.

Can't answer the power tools part of your question, but can answer the caving one. When Leadership Corps became venture crews in 1989, then venture patrols in 1998, a series of pin recognition was created for HA type activities that they could earn. BSA based the program on the Varsity program. The Varsity letter became the Varsity/Venture letter, and the venture pins were created.. From 1989 to sometime after 1996, the pins were restricted both to purchase and to specific program. So all the sports related pins were Varsity pins and restricted to Varsity Scouts being able to earn them and teams purchasing them. All HA activity pins were Venture pins, with only Boy Scouts being able to earn them and troops being able to buy them. Sometime after 1997, I'm thinking August 1998 but do not know for sure, Varsity Teams and venture patrols could earn either set of pins. And like the Varsity/Venture letter, the pins became Varsity/Venture pins instead of Varsity Pins and Venture Pins. In my home council, neither Varsity or venture was popular. None of the Varsity pins ever sold, and the only Varsity/Venture letter and Venture pins (backpacking and survival), that were sold was me buying them to promote the venture program. It never took off.

There are differences. I do not know the official reason why summer camp only counts once for various requirements. I can give you my thoughts though. 1) Monthly camping with your patrol is the heart and soul of Scouting. That is where you learn, refine, master, and teach those basic outdoor skills. "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt 2)The modern summer camp is not your typical camp out. You are sleeping in tents that are already pitched for you. Patrols do not need to come up with duty rosters and menus, nor do cooking and other patrol specific activities. Scouts eat in dining halls, and have a staff to do the work needed to get things done. Instead of patrol based activities, you have individual based classes. 3) I personally have mixed emotions on counting summer camp for the Camping MB. One one hand, everything they learn as part of the Camping MB, they are not doing at a modern summer cam for the most part. I have been to some recent camps that have have those in the classes go out into a wilderness area to pitch tents, work as a patrol, etc in order to make sure they really know the skills. On the other hand, I know how important summer camp is, especially to brand new Scouts. It's important not only for advancement, but also for social reasons. Summer camp is where you make friends for a life time. I also know that not every Scout will have the chance to do a week long, traditional camp program. Every Scout will go to summer camp. But everyone doesn't get the chance to go to a HA base, or do a HA activity.

Does anyone in your pack have B.A.L.O.O. Training? That person should be able to answer all of your questions. Also I would take either Outdoor Webelos Leader Training (or whatever it is called nowadays) and/or Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills, the Boy Scout leader outdoor training course. Both can help you. My answers are in red More Later

Stosh, Unfortunately I made the mistake of not only going to a private college (the partial scholarship to it helped make that decision), but going to grad school twice, once for a history degree that there is an overabundance in the market of, and then a library degree. I will be finished with my student loan debt when my kids are out of college. I wish I would be debt free at 50. On a different note since I'm the one responsible for helping people go back to school at my job, I know a lot more now than my mom ever did about the college process, transfer credit, financial aid etc. I hope and pray that my kids follow my advice, and do the 2 year community college program, then tranfer to a state school for the final 2 years. Or even take advantage of the early scholars program where they can take college credit classes at the local community college while JRs and SRs in high school, and have it applied to they bachelors degree.

This is not a troop. Shop around. Even if you have to drive. While my mom didn't have to drive 40 miles RT, she did have a drive to take me to Scouts. Thankfully there was a K Mart down the street, and she'd go shopping after dropping me off. One of our ASMs drives 60 miles RT so his son can be with my troop. That doesn include another 10-20 miles for him to get home.

OH I WISH!

Yes and no. I love too love the 3 year program. But I do not like that the LDS packs cannot camp. I also do not like the fact that they separate the Boy Scout youth into 3 different programs

I beleive the dopcument, but note the discrepecy. Also lament the fact that today's legalistic and sue happy society has forced the BSA to change its programs. It was not too long ago that Patrols could camp without adults on their own.

Back. The 12 and 13 year olds are Boy Scouts, they are on their own. There are no older Scouts who model the patrol method, and mentor the young leaders. The successful non-LDS troops I've been in and seen would usually have 14-17 year old Boy Scouts in the old "Leadership Corps" positions, i.e. QM, Librarian, Instructor, etc, and a SPL who had experience as a a PL. In one troop I was with,one SPL had over 2 years straight as a PL! His patrol kept reelecting him. With the LDS program, they have 2 years only, and the focus of Boy Scouts as I am told and read comments is to get them Eagle before they turn 14. While doable, it is challenging. Unless the troop is adult led. And with the number of young Eagles comign from LDS units, the commentary and personal experience, there are a lot of adult driven LDS units. (NOT picking on LDS units, There are non-LDS units that are just as adult oriented, and it drive me nuts) I can't sat anything about Varsity. Even with the LDS wards I've been in contact with, they did not have active Varsity Teams. In the one ward I am very familiar with, the Varsity Scouts ( 2 or 3 of them) met in the same gym as the Boy Scouts, and only played basketball. And that was the extent of the meetings for both groups: basketball. And the Scouter serving as both SM and Coach really had no interest in Scouting. He was "called" to both roles (aside he was the 3rd or 4th adult in the role since recharter, 7 months previous), had no kids in Scouting, and really was not interested in the program. As for Venturing, I have not seen LDS Venturers in the district I've been in. All that said, the LDS essentially has been running their own program for years. They said in the article, and is all over the comments, that Varsity and Venturing are not run like they are supposed to be run. Is it any wonder why the youth are not interested in those programs? Some commentators noted they duel register in their LDS troop, and a non-LDS troop, in order to get a true Scouting experience. Regarding money and BSA doubling down on failed and/or questionable programs. Having been a professional on the council level, and also working for national supply, I can tell you there are professional who not only have no interest in the outdoors, But i would not trust to teach the old Map and Compass belt loop as they would get lost on a football field being used as a compass course. Seriously, you have "experts" being hired for whatever specialty is needed, but they cannot apply their expertise to Scouting's core: the outdoors. If these "experts" are liek the ones I've seen in academia and medicine, they are so focused on their specialty, they cannot "think outside the box" and adapt their specialty to others. Instead they force other areas to adapt to their specialty. And that results in failure. Soccer and Scouting is one failed program taking out the outdoors. Some can argue Exploring and Venturing are dying because they dissipated the outdoors. Exploring started losing numbers when it became career oriented. And Venturing has the outdoors as one of 5 specialty areas. Look how that is going. And of course, the elephant in the room, the failed Improved Scouting Program of the 1970s. The only good thing out of that fiasco was Green Bar Bill came out of retirement to rewrite the Boy Scout handbook, and training programs, and saved the BSA. I was lucky enough to use that handbook, and do his training as a Scout. I see the same failure coming with STEM Scouts. I know that there were several STEM MBs that folks tool last year because they thought it would be fun, and it was. Different camp advertises these MBs in the STEM program area, there is no interest from those who were but didn't take it last year. All because of STEM. It is resource intensive, and I cannot see it as sustainable without large expenditures of money. And out current CSE has a background in Exploring. I see folks trying to dissipate Scouting's original focus, and be all things to everyone. And you cannot do it. I see traditional scouting losing. T As for money, others have said what I would say.

My thoughts, and I will be rambling as I always do. We all know that LDS units are run differently, i.e. old 3 year Cub Scout program, 11 year old Boy Scouts in their own program, 14 becoming Varsity and focusing on basketball, 16 becoming a Venturer. From reading the comments on some of the links provided, as well as my own observations of and discussions with LDS Scouters, LDS units have major problems because of Scouter turn over. Let's face it, it takes more than 1, 2, or 3 years to be an effective Scouter. And from what I've seen the Scouters are not in that position even a year a times. Plus they are not volunteers with a vested interest in the units. LDS Scouters are "called" or appointed, sometimes even if they have no interest or sons in the program. Will a Scouter with no interest, seeing the position as a job with a definitive end in sight really invest in training? We all know the answer to that. While I understand the 3 year Cub Scout program, heck that is what I went through, I really do not understand the constant changes from 11 year old to 12-13 to Varsity at 14 to Venturing at 16. From everything I've read and heard, again from LDS Scouters, the 11 year old program is a repetitive, Webelos 3, or in the LDS case Webelos 2, program where the adults do all the planning and teaching with little to no involvement. The sole purpose of that program is to "get First Class" by the time they turn 12. The patrol method is not really used, being given lip service. When you get to the Boy Scouts at 12 and 13, You get into the turn over and training problems I mentioned above. How can adult with no interest in being a Scouter really do an effective job advising and mentoring a bunch of Scouts who have for the first time been give actual leadership responsibilities? More later.

My thoughts. Since when is an Eagle Project considered a troop activity requiring adult present? According to the Guide to Safe Scouting " There are instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to patrol leadership training and guidance. With proper training, guidance, and approval by troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. page 1 ( page 10 of pdf found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf) I have seen projects where no adults were involved in the actual service. Heck the only adult at my projectwas my mother, and she was there because she drove me. The Scouts and I did all the work. As someone else noted the "we" is bothering too. I have had the opportunity to sit in on the approval process for an Eagle Project for two scouts. While one needed help regarding the paperwork, he knew his project proposal inside out, and the only time adults got into it was to give clarification and some additional ideas he did not think of. The other one had his paperwork all in order, but talking about it, he needed his dad, also the SM, to help him out.

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2) I thought NLYT no longer uses the terms SM, SPL, etc since the program,includes not only Boy Scouts, but also Sea Scouts and Venturers? 3) Can Explorers now do NYLT?

Only and ASM here. In my troop, we pawn our kids onto other adults. I know my oldest is glad about that b/c I tend to be harder and expect more out of him than others. Now when he is home, I will remind him of things he needs to do occasionally, i.e "Do you think ( insert names of missing patrol members) need to know what is going on since they missed the meeting?". And he will ask me for advice

While most of the adults are gone, the SM isn't. Sadly his son is not interested in earning Eagle and is dragging his feet on the matter. Dad will not quit as SM until son gets Eagle.

Yep I can believe it. My problem was that the Crossed Over parents/Cub Leaders took over the troop, and began running the troop like Cub Scouts. As their commissioner, I tired to work with them and help them get back on course their previous SM set for the unit; SCOUT LED! Long story short, I was told I don't know what I'm talking about and that Scouting needs to change with the times. If the troop can survive 1-2 more years, I see turn around. That group of parents are done with Scouts since most of their sons have Eagle and left. Only 1 or 2 remain. After 3 years of no new Scouts, they finally got a batch, as well as a Scouter who understands the program and wants it done right. There is a lot less resistance now to Scout Led.

It could be worse. My council never kept track of training records. It was just never put into the system until about 12 years ago, when National pushed it. Long story short, 99.99999% of the district was untrained. That included myself, training chairman, and our district commissioner who served on PTC staff. We did a training survey, verified who did what, and turned in the report to the council to fix. Now I believe the district training chairman can update those records.

We had a brand new 10.5 year old Scout also get diagnosed with a undescended testicle at his BSA physical. Luckily it was caught in time so that he could have it fixed and attend summer camp. As others have mentioned is is part of a standard physical, and can ID a hernia. A friend of mine had a hernia discovered at a BSA physical, and was unable to go to camp that year because the problem was not caught in time. As far back as my first summer camp, that procedure has been SOP. Yes, getting a physical is VERY serious and important, but I gotta tell this funny story. My introduction to Youth Protection came from a physical. We had a MD, also a cardiologist by specialty, do physicals for free. We would go into a room, he'd do the check up, and we are done. Well the first year youth protection became mandatory, the physician, also an ASM with the troop, had the CC in the room in order to have 2 deep. I asked, " Mr. K_____, why are you here?" His reply was, "It's this new youth protection thing, we can't be alone with Scouts anymore." My response was "let me get this straight, We're concerned about Doc _________ Molesting us?!?!?! Yeah right with 12 kids and the 13th on the way, I don't think we need to worry." And of course we all laughed.

One reason why those number dropped could be Hurricane Katrina. The New Orleans metro areas not only had the largest number of private schools in the US, but also the largest number of Catholic schools. Lot of people who moved out of the NO metro area never returned. I know my mom never did return, and my old troop died when most of the leaders and Scouts did not return. Regarding public versus Catholic, it depends on where you are located. I know in New Orleans, you want to go to Catholic school, even if you are not Catholic. My mom worked for the public school system, and sent me to Catholic school. I knew a bunch of folks whose parents were teachers in the public school system, but they attended Catholic schools. Heck, both parents of one girl I dated in high school were PRINCIPALS (emphasis) in the public school system, but sent both her and her sister to Catholic school. Regarding discipline, That is a fact. Some of the things my mom had to deal with at work would not have been tolerated at my school. And the principals acted as if their hands were tied. And at the high school I attended, we had folks waiting for teaching positions to open up. One of my friends from college took a significant pay cut to teach at my alma mater. I know one of the things that made my Catholic high school affordable was fundraising. Parents and alumni gave what they could. I would not have been able to go to my HS if it wasn't for financial aid. In fact the highlight of my senior year was being able to thank the alumnus who gave the endowed scholarship I was on.

I switched troops when I was a youth. BEST.DECISION.EVER! (emphasis) Original troop had some Scouter issues, and had a lot of verbal problems regarding leaders, i.e lots of yelling and cursing by PLs and Leadership Corps (today's venture patrol). I was not happy with the troop, and when they announced that my CM was going to be SM, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. I had issues with the CM.

@NJ, Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts going coed. I am assuming, and you know what happens when you assume, that it will be like the UK prior to 2007 or thereabouts: Units could be all male, all female, or coed. @@Fred, I don't have the stats in front of me, but give me some time I can probably find them, and even more current ones. I know the coed school discussion came up regarding my private HS and other way back when, and they used the data to support staying all male. Also topic cmae up in my ed theory classes.