Eagle94-A1

@NJ, Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts going coed. I am assuming, and you know what happens when you assume, that it will be like the UK prior to 2007 or thereabouts: Units could be all male, all female, or coed. @@Fred, I don't have the stats in front of me, but give me some time I can probably find them, and even more current ones. I know the coed school discussion came up regarding my private HS and other way back when, and they used the data to support staying all male. Also topic cmae up in my ed theory classes.

Had a discussion abut this with the DE last nite. Long Story short, he also said that the pros have been told it's coming.

Actually the trek leader is adamant on the First Class rank because we already have 14 or 15 Scouts and 5 adults going and cannot really open it any more. And there are 3 my son's buddies who want to go. Concern is if he allows my son, he'll need to allow them, and others. And we are limited to groups of 10 max. The Scouts already got creative in setting up 2 groups on the same trail. I am actually not too concerned; I only asked if he met all the requirement but the BOR and the PT requirements because the wife wanted me to. SWMBO went into momma bear mode for a bit until she finally comprehended that he was reminded multiple times to pay attention to the requirements and keep accurate records. I think he learned his lesson. Buckling up on things. I'd rather he learned this lesson as a Scout, than as a 17 year old Life Scout with 2 months before turning 18 and still needing Personal Management MB.

First Class Scouts are traditionally supposed to be able to handle themselves in the outdoors by them selves. Yeah we met, and unfortunately had, a First Class who was pretty useless camping. But having the basic outdoor skills is one reason for the First Class. The other is an attempt to limit the number of folks going. The section we are going wants groups no larger than 10. We only able to have 5 adults go, so we can not split into 3 groups, only 2.

On the TALK ABOUT SCOUTING Facebook page, someone mentioned how their SE told them Scouting will be going coed in a pilot program in 2018. I think this is a done deal. EDITED: I think this quote is very ironic: <i>A spokesman for the Girl Scouts of the USA said it could not speculate on the decisions of another organization but said their single-gender environment for girls offers unique benefits. "Research supports our premise that many girls learn best in an all-girl, girl-led, and girl-friendly environment where their specific interests and needs are met," said Andrea Bastiani Archibald, a psychologist who helps guide the Girl Scouts. "We are unparalleled in our ability to build great female leaders who contribute to society at every level," she said.</i> Why do I think it's ironic, because research also shows that boys learn best in an all-boy, boy-led, and boy-friendly environment.

My son is caught up in the 84 day thing. He wanted to do the AT trip this summer, and the requirement is First Class and do the prep hikes, or do the AT last year. Prep hikes are open to everyone, so he's going on those. But he did not keep accurate records when he did the Tenderfoot physcical fitness. So he has to restart that requirement, and won't make it. Mixed emotions. On one hand I would love to see him go. Heck I want to go. I think it was a good goal for him to get First Class in order to go. On the other hand, he waited to the last minute, despite some reminders about the importance of keeping up with paperwork and planning. Despite me telling him there is no way he will be able to make it now, he still thinks he may be able to pull it off. I think this will be a good lesson for him on time management, and keeping records. Since BSA no longer allows patrols to camp without adults, most troops only do troop camping. Closest thing I've seen to patrol camping is venture patrols doing a HA activity on their own with 2 adults.

First year I went back to camp, one Scouter was "commuting" between camp and job. He was a minister, and there was 2 unexpected funerals to do. I had to make a Walmart run to secure the "secret ingrediant" for the cook off, and a lot of folks did too. Second year I went back, I could not get off work. So I was commuting back and forth. Drive was 20 minutes, which was less time than I normally spent.. At all times, 2 adults are in camp. Personally I'd love to take a vacation./

Even with on-boarding there can be challenges. 3AM Scout and Mom both went though the troop's orientation, and ignored it. 3AM is one of the Scouts who was forced into the troop by mom, so he had no vested interest to stay at camp where "it's hot, sticky, and no video games. The food is horrible.This place sucks." And mom is so overprotective, it's ridiculous. And yes, 3AM knows how to manipulate mom to get out of situations he doesn't like.

After 2 incidents with cell phones, they are pretty much banned. First incident involved a homesick scout at summer camp calling mom at 3:00 in the morning to pick him up. That was a mess, and mama bear drove to camp to pick up her Scout. TAfter that incident, cell phone use was limited to the older Scouts. Second incident involved an older Scout letting his little brother use his phone because he had an accident. Adults knew about the accident, administered first aid, and told the scout he'd be fine. Scout wanted to go home. So Lil' brother called dad to pick him up because he was hurt. Thankfully Dad reasonable, and sneaky. Dad called the adults to see what was up. Dad did show up, but observed his "injured" Scout for 30 minutes goofing off and being thrilled he was going home. Lil' brother got the phone a second time and called dad to see what was taking so long. Lil' brother was surprised to hear his dad's phone go off in the bushes and dad was watching him prance around. After that no phones on camp outs. Now the lock in we have, tech is welcomed. Regarding the comment about adults with phones and control, in correct. We are responsible for the Scouts. And if something happens to the Scouts, we are responsible for contacting them. Also, if somethign happens at home, how are the parents going to contact us?

Two of my Eagles are my favorite success story. Dad left when they were young. Mom serving time in jail. Grandmother was raising them by herself. Living in a rough neighborhood, going to a school that had lots of drugs, gangs, etc. Grandmother had enough and got them involved in Scouting to keep them out of trouble. One took to Scouting like a duck to water. He worked camp, did OA, got Eagle, etc. He was the driving force to get a Venturing for the older Scouts who were getting bored and antsy. Long story short, he stayed active until he enlisted, and several of his friends stayed as active as can be with school and/or naval service. Once out of the military, he eventually started his own business, which he at some point he sold. He married his HS sweetheart, has three kids and is involved with his son in Scouting. Brother was a bit of a trouble maker. Always causing problems. Something happened one summer, and he did a complete 180 degree turnaround. Instead of being the trouble maker, he became a leader. he worked camp, did OA, and Eagled. he was active until he went to college, and did some things as he could. he also served, married his HS sweetheart, and is doing well. They had rough times, they had challenges. But Scouting helped them overcome.

My cousin and I were both pushed to get Eagle. He got his at 13 and quit. I got Life at 13, and could have gotten Eagle at 14y7m, which was when I completed the project, IF I would have focused only on getting the last few MBs for Eagle. But when I was 14, instead of taking MB classes at summer camp, I did a local "high adventure" backpacking trek for fun. I also did Brownsea 22, yesterday's NYLT, learning a lot and having, fun. At 15, I got into the OA, went to jamboree, did a Canadian expedition. It was all fun. Work, challenging, but FUN. At 16 and 17, I spent summers working my tail off. No time to finish up MB. Then when it was announced that one of the guys I was PL for passed his EBOR and was waiting for national approval, it hit me. I have x number of months to get the last 2 or 3 MBs. I made it. Took me a while, but I made it. And I had a blast. Fast forward 20+ years. My cousin has a son who become a Tiger. Thankfully he doesn't push his son to get Eagle. My cousin becomes a Scouter, and tags along on his son's adventures: OA, Philmont, etc. Stuff he should have done as a youth. And he had fun doing it. My point it, to many folks focus on Eagle, and not the lessons and fun of the Trail.

In my district, references need to be in letter form and mailed to the district advancement chairman. EBOR gets to read them. I have been told this happened twice. First time, the SM counseled him and told him what he would put down. Don't know if the Scout didn't hear him or didn't care. He used the SMt, and received a negative reference. Second one I was told about is interesting. Scout went overboard with the references and had 6 or 7 letters. All but one were positive.

In my troop, parents are NOT suppose to sign off on anything. I'm a Cooking MBC, and all my son had to do from summer camp was the backpacking meal requirements for that MB. When he worked on that requirement on a backpacking trip, I made sure that the trek leader saw what was going on, and could verify that he earned it. He wasn't a MBC for that MB at the time (he is now and a few others), so I "officially" signed him off. BUT I didn't actually work with him. The Summer camp counselor and the trek leader did the MBC work. No, this mom, despite wanting her son to make Eagle, didn't really attend anything. It took and act of congress to meet with her after the second fight.

So very true! Additionally the way they are written, in beauracrateese and legalese, it takes time for some adults to understand. Try being a teenager and trying to get through the paperwork.

Vent away. Can definately relate.We had two guys in the troop who were only in it because mom forced them. One transferred to a new troop after a year, but he got to First Class due to mom signing off on the ranks and no one noticing it until after the BOR. He didn't do a heck of a lot do to family situation. But enough to start two fights and and do some morale damage to the patrol. The other stayed 2 years. When he was not around, the patrol worked well. When he showed up for events, the negativity and arguing damaged the patrol. She eventually realized the troop wasn't for him, so he is now in an Explorer post affilaited with her job.

I am going to go off on a tangent a bit, so bear with. I was just asked to be my troop's "Eagle Advisor," helping the Star and Life Scouts get prepared for doing the Eagle service project and the BOR process in my neck of the woods. And part of that job is attending with the Scout the Eagle BOR for the project approval, and attending with the Scout for their EBOR. GREAT SCOT WHAT A MESS WE ADULTS HAVE CAUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Compared to my project's paperwork back then to today's paperwork, and it is P.I.T.B! I can now see why an "Eagle advisor" is needed, because there are so many rules, processes, and ridiculous minutia that the Scouts need to follow. And I blame adults for the problem. I've seen some things that Scouters have done to cause this mess we have today. Hey, I'm the one who had a district advancement chair try and deny my project because HE didn't approve it, his predecessor did. But I also blame parents. I've heard of some of the things parents have done to give their Scout Eagle. Heck we had one mom threaten to sue if her son didn't get an extension because he screwed up his first project so badly, the beneficiary told him and the Scouts to leave. She didn't think it was fair he would not be able to get Eagle because "[beneficiary] changed their mind after he started his project."

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.... : I was up in Canada doing a 64 mile canoe trip. First day out was gorgeous and very nice. So the second day, I decide to wear swim trunks, jungle boots, sunscreen, and a PFD. WWWWWEEEEEELLLLL a cold front comes through after lunch dropping temperatures, causing rain, and kicking up the wind. Went from lower 70s / upper 60s to the lower to mid 50s in minutes. Plus you got to add in windchill from 30-40mph gusts and rain. Needless to say I got cold real fast. Grabbed a ponchor, but no other insulation. And those 30-40mph gusts caused some "challenges" with my canoe. The waves cause my canoe partner to freeze with fear. I ended up screaming at my partner, "PADDLE OR DIE, TACO! PADDLE OR DIE!" (Me screaming at partner, not you folks ) And to make matters worse, my buddy canoe decides play a joke on us. With Taco frozen, they pull up next to us and push the bow of the canoe out. They did it with enough force, combined with the wave action, that we had to use that momentun and do a 360 to get back on course. We nearly flipped over 3 times, and it took about 10 minutes to get on course. By that point they left us behind, and Taco was still frozen with fear. I was not making any headway paddling a loaded canoe by myself in the wind and rain. So I decided to "island hop:" go to the nearest island, walk along the shore dragging the canoe, then paddling to the next island to repeat. So I am in jungleboots, swimtrunks, PFD, and a poncho in anywhere from ankle to chest deep lake water that is glacier fed. Did I mention the water is barely above freezing? I finally make it to the rest of the group. I'm disoriented, slurring speech, and blue like a Smurf from the chest down. Yep I had hypothermia.One of the guys noticed it, and started treating me for hyporthermia. But with no dry wood, they couldn't start a fire, and made that comment. That's when I commented, "I have a Sterno can in my survival kit." All eyes turn on me and I am told to bust it out. That's when I say, "But its only for emergencies." Then my buddy says " [EAGLE], YOU GOT HYPOTHERMIA. THIS IS AN EMERGENCY. BUST IT OUT NOW!" So a fire got started, I got treated, and all's well that ends well. Except for the hazing I got for years about the "...it's only for emergencies" comment.

If I told this story before, bear with me. One of my Eagles told me that during his first deployment to Iraq, they were living in tent. One of the sliders broke, so he used a tauntline hitch to fix the problem. His gunny sees him doing this, and tells him he needs to teach the rest of his platoon so that when the rest of the sliders break, they can fix them. Yep, more broke, and the Marines had the situation well in hand.

For anyone who thinks knots and lashings are not relevant Checkout then Lt.Col. Scarfoss's story. https://books.google.com/books?id=2fwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=lashing+and+space+shuttle&source=bl&ots=hTUDBy3d8Q&sig=4L2kLw8hTQi2JXZTtgJoY7yMeCE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYk8nFsq7TAhWE6yYKHT5EAP0Q6AEITzAL#v=onepage&q=lashing%20and%20space%20shuttle&f=false

West Knots are restricted, like the Eagle, Silver/Summit, and QM knots. You gotta prove you earned it. Yes, VERY large bequest in the will. To be honest, I do not think many, if any of the Eagles that year realize they are West fellows. In fact I do not know if any of their names are listed on the plaque in the Scout office. Reason I know is A) it was briefly announced at the awards banquet and B) the boss made a very big deal of being #1 in the region for West Fellowships that year. Go figure.

FYI only Webelos Dens can camp on their own. Lion, Tiger, Wolf and Bear Dens can only camp as a pack or at district/council level family camp outs. Are you using the original June 2015 advancement requirements found in the books, or are you using the new December 2016 requirements found here http://www.scouting.org/Home/programupdates.aspx A others have stated,it shouldn't be one and done. GET THEM OUTSIDE! (emphasis)

I've seen a Cub Scout wear a James E. West knot. Yes, dad donated $1000 in his name. Also know of approx. 100 Eagles who would be eligible. Gentleman left a very large bequest in his will, and every single Eagle in the council that year was a West Fellow.

Don't get me started with training records! Back in the day, I was responsible for updating council records. 1/2 to 2/3s of the courses were not listed. Very few were considered 'trained" (aside, try telling a long time Scouter who served on PTC staff several years they are "untrained"). Long story short, told to use the updated courses and #s, but put the original dates. Worked for a while until older courses were added, Then had to start the entire process all over again. It could be worse though. Very briefly for a time, national stated that you had to have CURRENT (emphasis) training coursed to be considered trained. Thankfully enough people complained and they changed the policy back.

I am going to say it depends. It better be written into the plan and noted during the approval process. I say that because I saw one Eagle Project approved and executed with only 2 Scout's involved, the Life Scout and his First Class brother. Everyone else was in their church's youth group. His thoughts were, They were benefiting, they need need to be involved. In the same district, but with a different advancement chairman, another Eagle project using non-scout labor had some issues. the DAC didn't like the non-Scout invovlement. That and he viewed the project as benefiting dogs and not the community. But since it was written into the plan was approved by the previous DAC, he had no choice but to accept it, especially since the project came about flawlessly. The Eagle in question did a lot of prep work to the point of making cardboard models to see how the items being build would work. Irony about "benefiting a bunch of dogs and not the community" is this. When my camp had a lost camp situation, the group that the Eagle project was for came in to do search and rescue with their dogs. Anyway, advise the Life that he definately needs to discuss that with the district folks during the approval process so it doesn't cause problems later.

Mea Culpa. Long day at work.