Eagle94-A1

4H has multiple programs within it, but they are all coed as far as I know. at least around here. My sons are involved in the 4-H Envirothon program. It's pretty intense, at least the group we have. And it is very adult driven? In all honesty, I have no clue to other programs that allow boys to make their own decisions, and learn from the consequences. Talking to the oldest, as long as it doesn't get too bad, he's staying. He's got friends in the troop, and is Life. But he knows other troops are out there.

@AVTech 1) WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!!!!!!!! 2) To answer your question, you need to go back to previous threads over the last 2 years, with an emphasis on posts since April. Long story short, we have parents, who are now registered committee members, who don't care a fig about the Patrol Method or youth led. There have been major issues with them jumping in and interfering with the program to the point that the older Scouts have walked away in frustration. They are bringing siblings along on camp outs, even if they are not suppose to be there i.e. District camporee. And now, with the encouragement of one of the ASMs, they want a major summer family camp out. I know the ASM pushed it so that the troop could do whitewater without having to follow G2SS since it's a "family camp out." Parents have been told multiple times to leave their kids alone and send them back to their tents/shelters when they try to sneak into their tents. It isn't happening. Last camp out had dad sitting in front of the shelter his son was in until kid fell asleep.

Anyone else get a "Voice of Scouting" survey on families being "welcomed" by troops? I did, and I was completely truthful: the inclusion of "family camping" is hurting the Boy Scouts, because adults are taking over planning, limiting choices on where to camp, and are bringing siblings which interfere. There are only two trips my sons are looking forward to this year, and possibly a third. Summer Camp and the AT trek are the two confirmed, and possibly the AT prep trip, depending upon location. When the PLC met for the annual planning conference, because the Scouts were not fully prepared, the adults took over. OK, traditionally 1/2 the year is planned in advance: January is lock in, March is Webeloree, April is Council Camporee, June or July is summer camp, and October is district camporee. But when the Scouts tried to branch out to few different camp grounds they had info on, the adults torpedoed those because they are too far to travel and we would get there too late at night. One Scout, actually his dad, came up with a white water family camp out. Apparently this was something the troop did 20+ years ago before they folded. Later when the Scouts proposed another major trip to do Thanksgiving weekend, the adults said that would make a good family camp out too, and may use that instead of the whitewater trip. But the adults have said the only camping will be at the fundraiser. And that will be a family camp out since it's in conjunction with the pack. Now I found out that one of the families is tagging along with our trip to a museum this weekend. When I told my two, one turned around walked off and yelled in his room "NO!" The other was shocked. At first he said if the parent are controlling him he's "MEH" about it. Then the other said, "that's the problem they don't control him and he causes problems. When an incident with the sibling was mentioned, the "MEH" son said, "yeah, I can see him doing that. He doesn't need to be there."

Note to self: NEVER lend out my SMHB 3rd ed Vols 1 and 2. It won't come back home. What I find interesting about these pics is that BSA is now promoting the Troop Program Features, where instruction is divided into 3 ability groups. Grant you, my old troop used WOODS WISDOM, as a basis for our meeting plans, but taught by patrols. PLs, knowledgeable Scouts in the patrol, but most often older Scouts in the Leadership Corps did the instruction.

My understanding is GBB wrote the syllabus for BA22 ( that's how we abbreviated Brownsea Double Two in my council) I do not know when the program officially ended, but the New Orleans Area Council, now the Southeast Louisiana Council, conducted their last BA22 weeklong camp in 1988. Why double two, I've hear different stories. One I was told orignally was to honor the original 22 Scouts at the 1907 Brownsea camp. One later is that it was suppose to be the second attempt at Brownsea getting Scouting back on track. As for variations, yes there were. My council had 4 patrols divided essentially into 2 troops. One troop did thing in one order, and the other the reverse. Also we did a service project, building a bridge, at the camp. Another thing was building survival shelters one night.

Correct. Cub Scouts is 3 years long. Then they got to a NSP for 1 year, limited to 3 or 4 camp outs and no summer camp. Then they are in a regular patrol. It use to be they were a Boy Scout until 14, then became a Venturer automatically, but now I think they stay a Scout until they Eagle or quit.

I was fortunate to have an SM who was a long time Scouter, and allowed us to use what we learned at BA22. When I staffed JLTC, SMs were suppose to attend a precamp conference. about 1/2 did. On the final day, there was a graduation ceremony that SMs were invited to attend, less than 1/4 showed up (it was on a Saturday). Purpose of those two events was to get the SMs behind the Scouts. When we had a post conference meeting to see how folks were doing, the #1 complaint was that the SM would not let them run the troop like they were taught. The troop locally that was dying until last year at one time had 4 NYLT grads. They all Eagled and left, or transferred to another troop, when the new SM would not listen to them and essentially took over. And I wouldn't blame it on new SMs either. Sometimes the old SMs, some who should know better, won't let the Scouts do what they want.

My philosophy is once in a den, he stay's with the den. I had one Cub in the same situation, and he stayed with us. I had another Cub who quit before he failed. He later came back to Cub Scouts in another pack. He was put in the grade specific den there because A) He was not involved with my den at that level and B) His schoolmates were in that den. Unlike school, you and you son have a lot of options with Cub Scouts.

BA 22 was the forerunner of the Junior Leader Training Conference and today's NYLT. It was intense!

We had a mom asking about MBUs, especially since some were being advertised. Both the SM and I told our stories on why we discourage them: folks are generally given the MB. She kept going on and on about MBUs, and we both kept telling how locally they giveaways. She didn't see a problem with that.

Depends on the unit. In the 'High Speed, Low Drag" and "One and Done" Advancements units. probably no one. Those units will high standards and expectations, all of them. sadly my unit is in the middle of these two. We are working on getting those expectation high. Once upon a time, a Scout was expected to "master the skills," and "the badge represents what you can do, not what you have done." In the troop I grew up in, yes the older Scouts could do them as they were the ones teaching the skills to the younger Scouts. In fact, one of my Eagles as a 20 something Marine was stationed in Iraq. He was living in a tent, and when setting them up, the plastic adjuster on the guy line broke. His buddy freaked out, but he did a Taut Line Hitch to fix the problem. His gunny saw what he did, and made him teach every single member of the platoon how to tie that know. If a Scouter doesn't expect his older Scouts to know their basic skills, then the unit really needs to think how they select their volunteers IMHO.

Sometimes being Trustworthy, and Loyal will appear to others as being unKind or unFriendly to others. Sometimes being Helpful will make you appear disCourteous and unKind. And I can go on and on. I do my best to live up to the Oath and Law. But try to insult or hurt My Scouts you need to watch out. I personally think allowing girls into Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is the worse mistake ever, and one that is irrevocable unlike 1972's Improved Scout Program. I think it will hurt boys, and even the CSE made comments to that effect. That is why they want a separate girls program. But we all know that a separate but equal program will not work. BSA IMHO is compounding this mistake.

I want to say that was put in for our LDS brothers who still use the old 3 year Cub Scout program in use prior to 1982 when Tigers were introduced. I know in my neck of the woods, once they join a den, they stay with them.

At one time I know Explorers, and later Venturers, could wear the Eagle patch until 21. Saw many 18-20 year olds in my post do just that. Way before my time, Sea Scouts could wear Eagle too. In fact they made a navy blue background and a white background Eagle patch just for them.

Any way you could scan those into pdf format and make them available? Bill's writing style made you want to read the books. The current style makes the BSHB boring.

Great Scott I'm not alone! Yes we had parents, now all registered as committee members, trying to change plans and work on MBs. The new batch of parents want everything advancement oriented. SSSSSSOOOOO I suggested to my boys, who were teaching that month, that they do Chess MB by the book. It was the boringest meetings. Only thing that got their attention was when it came time for gametime; playing chess. After that expereince, the PLC said working on skills is fine, MB are a heck no. If Scouts want MBs, they can find the time to finish them on their own. Mission accomplished.

One thing to remember about ARC and BSA, there is a lot of collaboration with the 2 organizations. The BSA and ARC lifeguard programs are 95% identical. Only difference is the addition of G2SS policies, which are stricter. When I took BSA Lifeguard in 2016, for an extra $25 or $35 and taking the ARC written test, I could have been dual certified. Heck BSA Lifeguard classroom portion was watching ARC videos. Yes I would have been ticked. I was a certified YMCA Lifeguard, and still needed to work with a Lifesaving MBC to get teh MB.

Originally, Venturing, except for Sea Scouts, did not have ranks as they do today. They had "Recognitions, " i.e. Bronze, Gold, and Silver Awards, and "Specialty Awards," i.e. Ranger, QUEST, and the Sea Scout Quartermaster Rank. IMHO because advancement has been turned into a metric by national, and most Venturers could care less about awards and recognitions, folks at national implemented the current ranks. Don't know how popular they are still.

I find it ironic that her dad is pushing her two brothers, they are progressing, but not at the rate dad wants them to. Nor have they held elected PORs, only appointed ones. Yet there are others in the troop who are not being pushed, but keep getting elected and are advancing along nicely.

How many Eagles in 2016? Don't know about Summit, but there were 22-25 Quartermasters in 2016 if memory serves. As an Eagle and former Sea Scout (Ordinary rank) I can tell you QM was a heck of a lot harder than Eagle.

Already had a dad tell me his daughter will earn both Gold and Eagle. She's 13, so she has time to do it even if she doesn't want to. Dad is pushing older brother. And yes it's for college applications reasons

Agreed, distance is a challenge for adults.

A few thoughts 1) camping 300 feet away from other patrols and adults. That way are close enough in an emergency, but far enough away to be independent 2) Adults don't interfere except for safety 2a) Adults make sure it's a true emergency. Had an incident where one ASM jumped on a Scout's case because he thought the Scout was playing with fire, when he was cooking his meal over an open flame. 3) Let the Scouts make any rules like " no consecutive terms," have to be X rank for PL, SPL, etc. 4) Don't tell Scouts who to vote for. Yes, heard about that one twice now. Once for OA elections, once for troop elections. 5) LET THEM FAIL!!!!!! "The best teacher, failure is."

HHHHMMMM, maybe I should start wearing all of my bling on my ASM shirt, and maybe folks will listen? Nah won't happen. I've parents who want "high speed, low drag" advancement. They want everything in Boy Scouts to be advancement oriented, and not fun. they want a 100% guarantee that their kids will be safe, and nothing will happen to them. Experience and training don't mean much to these folks. And Scouters with that much bling and still doing it wrong hurt all of us working on doing it right.

While I agree with you 100%, I'm playing playing Devil's Advocate. 1) Units have been doing it unofficially for years, and finally BSA agrees to it, why should my daughter suffer because we can't get enough new volunteers/girls/ whatever the reason is? 2) The CSE stated in their 20 questions video that "as long as they work out of their own book, it'll be OK." So if Coed dens, as long as they work out of their own book is OK, why not on the troop level? 3) The CO has no problem with coed, why should the BSA, espeically after the CSE's comments?