Eagle94-A1

Part of the reason for the AOL is to prepare them for Boy Scouts. Engaging with a troop has been one of the requirements since as long as I can remember, and if memory serves, one of the original requirements. Heck I remember when a man had to be the WDL to simulate Boy Scouts more closely. One of the challenges i've found is that Scouts do not stay around for long if they do NOT engage with a troop. Give you an example. For the past 2 years, the Webelos from our feeder troop have not camped with us. One den visited us at camp for a few hours and left, the other den used the joint Scouting for Food activity for the outdoor requirement. 4/5s remain of the first den, and 1of 3 remain from the second den. Contrast that with camping and it is much higher. Out of oldest son's den 2 of the 4 camped with the troop, and hte other two transfered over because of them. Middle son's den had 4 camp with us, and all four are still here.

Yes it is only mediocre if you let it. And I know how much work is involved in getting a chapter back on its feet. Done that twice, and started a new chapter once. And I may have to do it again since I found out the Chapter Advisor stepped down. As for me being negative, kinda hard to see something you have devoted all of your adult life falling apart. feel like I am the Dutch boy putting fingers and toes in the dikes. District committee is non-existant. Folks are expressing their displeasure with national's policies by stepping away. Folks believe that national is not listening to them, and that the organization as a whole is not the same one they signed up to be members of. we are talking folks with 10, 20, 30, 60 years in the organization. And not having a full time DE, someone who can devote all of his energies into recruiting folks hurts the district too. And I know I am burning out, which is also contributing to the negativity. I am tired of being put in charge of things at the last minute. 2016 camporee was dumped on me 2 months before it was scheduled. Took a year to plan 2017 camporee, then WHAM, one week before a CS activity is dumped on me at the same time and place. Ditto with Cubmobile the past 2 years and Scouting for Food.

Prior to 1996 Scouts could vote for 1/2 of those eligible. If it was an odd number, you rounded up to the next even number. So if 2 Scouts were eligible, you could only vote for 1. If 3 or 4 Scouts were eligible, you could vote for 2. Etc. Still needed 50% of the unit there, and still needed 50% of the vote. And abstentions counted. I remember one troop that had an odd number eligible. SM divided the troop into 1/3s and told them who to vote for. That was the only time I saw everyone eligible get elected into the OA prior to the current policy. And I found out the next year when he was bragging because he no longer had to rig the elections so that everyone could get in.

DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( and yep, I shouting a warning at ya ) Seriously, having worked for National supply an knowing that many of the folks have little to no experience in the program, I can see someone coming up with this idea and implementing it in order to make a few bucks. Heck it may be one of their "nonuniform" items that folks will wear with their uniform.

If memory serves, doesn't the Webelos have to talk to the SM for Scouting Adventure? That could be the SMC. I remember earning the Scout badge a week after Crossing Over AND getting the time requirements between Scout and Tenderfoot waived due to AOL. My old troop would do the investiture ceremony within 3 weeks of the Webelos Crossing Over, as the troop neckers were handmade and not readily available at times. Sadly I do not believe many WDLs are doing their job properly. They are treating Webelos as Wolves and Bears still, when it should be the transition phase. I'm seeing it with one of the packs that feeds into us; their Webelos are just are not ready for Boy Scouts when they cross over. And from posts here and elsewhere, this seems like a nationwide problem.

Yes, the OA has lost its luster. Started back when you could vote for whomever you wanted instead of 50% of those eligible. When I found out a SM rigged an election so that everyone could get in, I was ticked. I don't know what happened after I became inactive with the OA due to Cubs Scouts, but my chapter is dead in the water. My oldest, who has been eligible for some time now, has no interest in the OA.

{sarcasm on} GEEE i didn't see that coming. {sarcasm off} If you look at the current membership apps that were created in July 2017, Lions is an official program. And Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is gender neutral.

I think that is the major problem. Webelos IS suppose to be the transition period between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. They are suppose to be treated as Boy Scouts but still under the direction of an adult Den Leader, and if lucky a Den Chief. My den growing up and my two older sons dens were just like that, and making the transition was/is smooth. Youngest son's den is also like that. I think this is where many WDLs screw up. They keep treating the Webelos as full blown Cub Scouts, and not in transition. They are not upping the expectations, and are still in "Do Your Best" mode. Had a nice chat with the SM and a few other adults about the differences between the Webelos we are getting from one pack, and the Webelos from another pack. Told them that any Webelos with Arrow Of Light should be able to automatically earn their Scout Rank the night they cross over since Scout Rank and the Scouting Adventure Activity badge is 99.99999% identical. Even made a bet on it with the SM. Which reminds me, I need to remind the SM to make me a "Death by Chocolate" cake on the next camp out that he owes me. Because the feeder pack's Webelos dens are not fully transitioning, I am considering going back to WDL once youngest crosses over in December. Out of 9 who crossed over in April, 4 remain, and 2 don't seem to be interested in the program. And out of the 3 we got in December, only 1 has been to any meetings or camp outs.

Jealous. Gambinos is awesome. I lived 1/2 from their Metairie bakery. Two of my cousins worked at their Gentilly bakery. My cousins stole their recipes and made goodies for Christmas.

Out of curiousity, which bakery and how much was the shipping? Or did you go local? I ask because I could not find a decent king cake locally, and the bakeries back home I inquired about charged an arm and a leg for shipping. Wife had pity on my soul and started making them for me. As for food, I love the traditional New Orleans Mardi Gras meal: Popeyes Famous Fried Chicken with cole slaw.

The entire First Class, First Year premise looks only at one factor and membership retention: advancement. And IMHO since it came out when NSPs came out, it is based upon how LDS units do things, i.e. 11 year olds are a separate group. Every unit that is “successful” with NSPs has to treat them like Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts. Of course they will advance fast, but do they truly learn? With traditional patrols, advancement is slower, but they learn, truly learn.

I so wish I had more parents with this attitude. Monday night we had one mom post on FB that her son needed someone to sign off on some Second Class requirements. This is the same Scout who refuses sleep away from daddy. While he was working on requirements, Mom was lamenting the fact that he's been in the troop 10 months as is still only Tenderfoot (don't ask) and that he needs to be First Class by April. I had to talk to her about it is more important that he knows the skills and that a First Class Scout is not only capable of camping on his own, but is suppose to help others. Sadly I don't think she gets it. Then again, maybe I am being a hypocrite. I've reminded middle son that he needs to get First Class by end of May so he can go on the AT trip he's been wanting to do since last summer. It's all on him.

While I admit my dealing with Venturing are very limited, I do know that I can count on one hand the number of years my council had an "active" VOA. As far as the OA, I've had a lot more interactions. As a youth officer and 21-23 year old chapter advisor, I was pretty much ignored. I had to get one of my friends to pass off my ideas as his to get them even considered. I had one chapter chief so ticked off at the condecesion of one district committee meeting, he vowed never to attend again. And to this day, his successors have not attended anymore ( approx 7 years now). Talking to the current lodge chief, i discovered that after one incident, which I witnessed years ago, the lodge chiefs have not been attending the council executive board meetings because their voices are ignored. This lodge chief has already commented that he WILL be attending these meetings, and he will represent the voice of the youth in the council whether the adults like it or not. As for the incident that caused the LCs to stop attending, let's just say that the overwhelming opinion of the youth was not to do something. I want to say something like 90% of the youth did not want something to be done. The Lodge Advisor was furious at the results, and overrode the vote by saying "I don't care what you want, this is how it is going to be." When youth and adults started protesting by wearing their sashes inside out, he yelled " wear them properly or don't wear them at all." over half the people in attendance no longer wore their sashes. So forgive me if I do not think that youth have an actual voice that is listend to at the national level.

Family camping was the "camel's nose in the tent" that led to coed Cub Scouts. And according to BSA's documents, family camping is allowed for Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, and Venturers. And we already face folks pushing "family camping" on the boy scout level.

Read the current youth application that came out in July 2017. Boy Scout membership states "children...."

page 22 of the Guide to Safe Scouting has this to say about family camping. And since 'OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING," I think this will apply to 'Family Scouting" Family Camping Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection policies apply. (emphasis added)

THAT is the problem. Most Scouters get what 30 minutes or thereabouts on the topic. As you stated, IT IS NOT ENOUGH TIME (emphasis). Then you got the folks, even those who SHOULD know better, that do not believe in the Patrol Method, or do not have the patience to do it right. Heck Bryan on his blog even did an article on it, and said it's OK for adults to intervene in areas when health and safety ARE NOT a concern. These adults think they are helping hte Scouts, wen in effect they are hurting htem.

Yes, it is already happening. My sons and many of their friends are not happy with the parents and siblings starting to camp with the troop now.

But that is CUB Scout, bot BOY Scouts. (caps for emphasis). Most 11-18 year old males want to get away from their parents and younger siblings. They want to do things on their own. The families going camping is one reason why my sons and several others are not happy with the troop. They had problems with siblings, as well as adults. An example form this weekend, PL is doing his assigned job at a fundraiser, and one of the parents tells him to stop what he is doing and get back to work. Thankfully I was there and told him to ignore the parent and SPL's instructions. Agree 110% Even WB doesn't fully model the Patrol Method. And even when you do have adults who know PM and teach it at training, you still have large numbers of adults who think they know best, or do not have the patience to implement it. The Patrol Method is truly 'Organized Chaos" Another factor that women have is the natural "mother instinct" They want to nurture and protect they children. Many cannot let go. We see it today with 26 year olds being considered children under some federal laws. I do not know when the Guide to Safe Scouting first came out, But I can tell you many things I use to do as a Scout are not allowed anymore, and it has been since women were allowed to be SMs and ASMs, i.e. pioneering projects over 6 feet, smudge pots, etc.

That's just it, did youth have any say in the new policy? In my neck of the woods, the ones I talk to are against it. Don't know how many youth took the heavily biased for girls survey. Also do not know what the results of the membership survey was, but considering that those results have not been published by BSA, I do not believe the majority of those polled were in favor.

Not the Rat, but a local amusement/waterpark. When I was up in Canada, the last full day we had a choice of waterpark or amusement park. Most of us stuck with the waterpark because we were still recuperating from a week of canoeing, and of course the girls Most popular place was the huge heated pool. After a week dealing with glacier fed lakes, and me getting hypothermia, it was awesome to have hot water. It was included in the trip fee. Local troop on the way back from FL Seabase, did a day at the Rat.

All three of my boys think this is a major mistake. Youngest commented on what happened when one boys only group merged with the girls only group: it got boring and the combined group stopped meeting. Wife, who was a Venturing leader, has mixed emotions. Glad girls will have the same opportunities, but also sees how this will hurt the boys in the long term. There is no place for boys to be boys anymore. My troop will be coed no matter what national says. SM, ASM, and several MCs have daughters who have dropped out and/or are bored with GSUSA. One daughter is only in GSUSA to get Gold Award, and dad cannot wait for her to get Eagle as well. Plus as many know, my troop is "family friendly" allowing families, including Cub age sons, to attend any and all camp outs. I don't know what my sons will do. Oldest is Life and has stated he wants to stay with the troop and try and change it from the inside. I honestly do not know if that is possible anymore. The adults have taken over, and are only giving lip service to Scout run. Best examples include the recent tent and gear purchases, and now the troop's fundraising schedule. Everything is already planned for the next 3 months, but the adults are meeting with the Scouts tonight to get ideas for fundraising. He's not happy about it. He thinks adding girls will cause the troop to become even more adult led. Middle son had the opportunity to see how a "youth run" troop works at an Eagle COH this weekend. I use "...." because the Eagle had his friends do the various parts of the ceremony. Several were in the 18-21 year old range. He's getting frustrated with the troop after a year being in it. He's tired of the Scouts not doing what they are suppose to do, the adults taking over, as well as folks advancing who really shouldn't be. Yes, we have 2 Scouts whose parents are pushing them, and are "sea lawyering' to get requirements signed off. He knows other troops are out there. In addition to more adults being involved, his concern is that the girls will cause the troop to have even fewer adventurous camp outs. He is not happy that all of te camp outs at the moment, except summer camp and the AT, are places we have been before and within an hour of out meeting location.

At the moment we have 3 patrols and whomever shows up, shows up. Patrols have approx 8 each. But we have our issues. Someone here suggested 12 man patrols, so that if only 50% show up, it's enough to function. Might be something to look at.

Agreed. As much as I personally believe that accepting girls in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is the worst mistake BSA ever made, their roll out and implementation of this decision is BSA's #3 mistake of all time, right behind #2's Improve Scouting Program fiasco of the 1970s. Don't know about other areas, but in my district, only 1 CO is looking to go coed. Two packs and troops will be approaching their COs about the topic. All the rest of the units and/or COs are against this membership change. One troop told me that if they are forced to accept girls, the CO will drop Scouting as an outreach ministry in a heartbeat. I mention this because I do not believe BSA actually listened to folk in the field before making this decision. Otherwise they would not be doing it. But since they are doing it, they need to do it right.And their separate but equal program will not work. They need full integration to do it right.

Don't go there. I already had one supply employee tell me that the cheap pants that are current issue do not have a lifetime guarantee anymore. Had to get a manager involved in that. And the second pair was just as bad. had to use ebay and get some "expereinced" shorts from the 1990s.