SSScout

Alright class, let's consider the difference between anecdotal evidence and statistical evidence. If an Adult Scouter notes that, in his day as a BOY Scout, he had to call the Council office, obtain a list of Merit Badge Counsellors, call up and make an appointment, get there (mom taxi?), make plans to pass the requirements, pass the requirements, have the MBC sign his cards and pass them on to the Scoutmaster, that is anecdotal. If the Scouter says that his boys Troop today has 25 MBCs listed among the Troops leadership, that the Troop offers periodic classes for such MBs as First Aid, Citizenship, Bird Study, Preparedness, and Personal Fitness (among others),that is anecdotal. Now, take out your texts and turn to the Scout Membership Lists on page umtieleventeen. Look at the Eagle Award Lists. Calculate the percent of Eagles awarded as a fraction of the membership of each year. See the rise in the graph? That is statistical evidence. Which do you think is more compelling?Yes, I know we are being very simplistic and perhaps not considering all the affective quantities. Yes, Algernon?

I remember being "specialized" by my fellow Scouts as the patrols expert fire builder and (!) powdered milk mixer. Everybody "knew" I was the best in these things. While I think gaining expertise in your favorite activities is important, consider this opinion from computer scientist Lew Hitchner: "A human being should be able to heal a wound, plan an expedition, order from a french menu, climb a mountain, enjoy a ballet, balance accounts, roll a kayak, embolden a friend, tell a joke, laugh at himself, cooperate, act alone, sing a childrens song, solve equations, throw a dog a stick, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, love heartily, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." Are you too "specialized"? Have your buddies "specialized" you? What say ye, friends?

miki101: You and your classmates have finally reached the REAL answer. The design of a statistical study will ultimately determine the result, raw data not withstanding. The base Eagle rate is 1.98%.(and I don't think that reflects the elimination of boys who join LATE in the game, and could not possibly earn Eagle before age 18). Now, one must establish a rate of change over the years. so EACH year must be calculated (potential Eagles/ Eagle awarded) per year and the rate of change over the past 90 years (dE/dY ?) calculated. If the rate is highly positive (I would expect) then either (1) the awards are more attractive (more Scouts decide they WANT it), or (2)Scouts are becoming more capable (smarter?) or (3)the awards are being made easier (merit badge mills, excessive "coaching", pushy parents, accomodating MB counselors) or (4)the EBOR/judges (called "gatekeepers" in another thread) are being more complacent. Anyone discern any other possibilities?

No,No,No,No. A false premise will result in a false result. The question CANNOT be how many EScouts in a year, the question is : "How many Scouts have earned Eagle as a percentage of ALL Scouts that had the potential to earn Eagle?" If a boy does not become a Scout, he cannot become an Eagle. The nascent Tiger CAN earn Eagle, in 8, 9, 10 years ,yes? If the boy 'drops out,' he still was a potential Eagle, and must be included in the consideration. Joins at age 12, drops out to play B-Ball at age 14, still a POTENTIAL Eagle. He was a Scout. But not Female Venturers, or Exporers. Uh-uh. Therefore, the important question is (disregarding how easy or difficult the earning task is) solved thus: Total number of signed-up Scouts (male, from Tiger on up) excluding boys that joined after age 15 (since they can not even theoretically jam everything in to satisfy the published requirements, time wise) since 1910 divided into the total number of Eagle awards given since 1910 will yield the percent of Scouts that have EARNED (there's that word again) the Eagle. Class? Anyone? Yes, you there in the back with his hand up... (This message has been edited by SSScout)

See "walk the walk, hike the hike" in the forums.

? como se llama? Yo llama! Llama? Si,si, llama!!

Kraut60: Positive reinforcement, ooooo, I like that idea. I believe I will suggest that at our next Comm meeting. Do you recommend a 'fair warning announcement' to the troop before you start the candy awards, or just start as you see the good uniforms and let word get around?

hops-scout: Thank you for your candor. Way back when I was earning my Stegasaurus husbandry MB, I also was piled high with activity. Kept me out of trouble, you bet. Band, track, drama club, part time job, home chores AND scouts' (and the occassional ETC.). But the Eagle was almost automatic for me, looking back. The MBs were all fascinating to me, my folks drove me to the MB counselors ( not necessarily 'embedded' in the Troop) or at camp, and the rest just sort of happened, as my Scout career progressed. I guess I'm interested in a comparison of THEN and NOW and are things any more difficult. My boy likes to kid me about how he has MORE history to learn than I did. And it does seem that there are more distractions to the 'straight and narrow' NOW than THEN. But, ... see #5 above. Just reading your message, I feel you are making the best decision for YOU. If the time will not allow, or you find yourself drawn to other means of growth, then Godspeed, and I wish you well. Don't forget to share your wisdom with those coming up behind you. I know Scouting has "done it's best" by you and you have given as well as you have got. Smile and wave as you go by. Now, about the rest of you??? YiS somemore

My title is "Transit Coordinator". I work for the local transit(bus) service and for lack of a better description, I'm sort of a "street supervisor". My office is a Jeep Cherokee. I oversee route drivers, investigate accidents, ameliorate pasenger-driver conflicts, play "what if" with our operation for the higher-ups. Scoutwise, I'm a ASM and District Camp Chair and Cub Scout Day Camp gofer. YiS still...

Oh, it's cluttered, all right. Sorry to say, as the case was presented initially,I would probably vote 'nay'. That said: I have heard many times that something less than 1(one)% of all Scouts are awarded Eagle. In light of THIS thread and several other recent and current threads, I would ask: 1) Is this statistic still true? Does "all Scouts" mean everyboy who EVER signed an application, from Tiger on up or exactly which bunch of Scouts? 2) How much beating/cajoling/encouragement does a horse need to make him drink after the water has been put in front of him? 3) How much truth in the allegation that the Eagle requirements have been "eased" and "modernized" to accomodate "todays" boys? 4) If YOU, fellow Forumates, were a 17 year old Life Scout today (assuming you'd want to be), do you think YOU could balance your academic/family/church/athletic/Scout/band/work/social(girls?) ties and desires? 5) Opinion of the following moral: "Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce" YiS still... (This message has been edited by SSScout)

Radmom: Welcome to the ecrackerbarrel. And congrats on the obvious excellent Pack. Bright colors for the vests... One size fits all? Make'm big enough so they will fit ALL thru age 10 or 11!!My First Class Scout has the Cub vest as a trophy. Velcro for closure? All it has to do is hold it on the Cub! YiS

"Duty to God" Ummmmm....... "I expect to pass through this world but once; any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now; let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again" = = Stephan Grellet = = "He hath shown thee, O man, what is good, and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God. = = Micah 6:8 == .... Something called ""The Golden Rule"" comes to mind... And many other religions (ethical systems?) also have 'instructions' that sound alot like the G/R. Try www.religiontolerance.org/reciproc.htm Is it possible that Athiestic folks can do 'Duty to God" without personally acknowledging that the Duty they do is done to/for/appreciated by God with out knowing it? If I park my car in an unmarked spot without knowing that that is the spot the law wants me to park in, have I not done my duty to the law without even knowing that that is my duty? (convolution is fun if one doesn't get too dizzy) Stretch yourself. Do several good turns daily. YiS

As we approach Thanksgiving, I find myself thinking about food... and graces... I once used this story as a lead in to a Blue and Gold banquet, I honestly can't say where I originally found it. For your consideration.... The Tribe Elder and his grandson were sitting and watching the sunset. The grandson noticed his elder was more pensive than usual, and asked him what he was thinking about. The old man smiled at the boy and said, "my boy, there are two wolves inside me, and they fight. They are called by many names. The first is Love, Creation, Sympathy, Understanding and Tolerance. The second wolf is Hatred, Destruction, Intolerance, Bigotry, and Impatience. These two are strong and fight in me every day. And I know they fight in YOU, my son." Here the old man paused and stared off at the fading sun. The boy said, "grandfather, which wolf will win?" The grandfather gazed down at the boy and said, "the one you feed." YiS

epalmer writes:"Wearing them on the uniform is not useful. In a camping situation where the Scout is building a fire or using a knife, he isn't wearing the official uniform" Oh, but wearing them on the uniform is very useful. As mentioned before, the badges Scouts wear denote their acquired proficiency and general knowledge. As Staff at Camporee, I find it very useful to see a First Class bdge on a Scout and expect a certain expertise. Same for Tot'n Chip. I see many layers of shirt pocket flaps among senior Scouts everywhere I go in the Scout world. And, anyway, in every picture in the Scout handbook and catalog, everyone's wearing the 'field' uniform, right? Look at Boy's Life. Uniforms! A

epalmer writes:"Wearing them on the uniform is not useful. In a camping situation where the Scout is building a fire or using a knife, he isn't wearing the official uniform" Oh, but wearing them on the uniform is very useful. As mentioned before, the badges Scouts wear denote their acquired proficiency and general knowledge. As Staff at Camporee, I find it very useful to see a First Class bdge on a Scout and expect a certain expertise. Same for Tot'n Chip. I see many layers of shirt pocket flaps among senior Scouts everywhere I go in the Scout world. And, anyway, in every picture in the Scout handbook and catalog, everyone's wearing the 'field' uniform, right? Look at Boy's Life. Uniforms! A

Somewhere in the past posts it is appropriate to interject Gandhi's comment that "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and soon the whole world is blind and toothless". But I forget where.

I just reviewed the whole thread ( more like a rope now?). Estee, welcome. You picked a truly classic discussion for getting your electronic feet wet. MMMMM, football as a metaphor for Scouting...mmmmmm.... Is Scouting a religion? if so, which one? If not, is it a collection of religions? if so, which ones? Which are excluded, if any? If religions are not a defining quality of Scouting, what then is our "duty to God"? Is the BS of A the final definition of Scouting? I am not sure about that, having seen some of the rest of the Wonderful World of S-ing. I have grown to like the idea that we should encourage our Scouts to do their "duty to God" as THEY see fit. It is ultimately not my job, or ANY Scouter, to tell them what that 'duty' is. Or, to try and get that Scout to see the same Ultimate Source that I see. It's a mighty big elephant and we are a mighty lot of blind men, trying to descibe how we 'see it' from our piece of elephant. (Rudyard Kipling, I believe) If, as BP tried to say, the 'good turn', the 'natural woods', the 'being prepared' to help wherever and whenever one can ("why, for any old thing"),the chivalry game, all is an indirect way to bring a boy around to realizing his connectiveness to the greater world/Godhead/creation/force("use it,Luke!"), then 'good on yer', to get Australian. Take'em hiking, canoeing, camping and let the magic work. (sharp things and fire, right??) If Christ is my way, as a Christian, I cannot insist that YOU have to follow MY way to good, responsible behavior. I know alot of professed Christians that sure don't look or act like him. And, to really confuse yourself, look up Gandhi's take religion. Started out Hindu, later professed to be Christian, Buddhist, Hindu and Mohammadan. Said he thought Christians should act more like Christ (radical, man!) "The humble, meek, merciful,just, pious and devout souls are of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask they will know one another, though the diverse liveries they wear here make them strangers" == William Penn == "By their fruits ye shall know them" JC said that.(look it up yerself),and a good Scout is a good Scout, be he from Bombay or Bayonne. YiS. (This message has been edited by SSScout)

Baden: The hardest part of a judges job is not deciding the truth or falsity of alledged actions, but the INTENT... Choices... One. Convene the EBOR. Pass the Scout or deny. If deny, state reasons. ALL of them. State way to redress problems and reapply at a later time. A year later? Scout is instructed that he may appeal the denial to the next levels. Let him. What particular part of the Scout Promise and Law is this again?. (BTW: What about the other CHILDREN involved?) Two. BOR refuses to meet, it is as if the boy never asked for a convened board. Tell the boy that in order to avoid making a record of his problem (which everyone is aware of, anyway) they will make NO decision. Please come back when your record has been expunged. At that time we will consider your Eagle application, which, BTW, looks pretty good. Done all the time, when the perp is a first time, very young, truly remorseful person. It is desirable to get your case expunged. No record for employer checks. No security check problems. WAY back when, I had a brush with the law. My dads attorney, a very wise man, asked that the case be "nol prosed" (never went to trial), and I was on unofficial probation for a year, at which time the case was expunged. No record of it. No problem. I've been "clean" since. (we'll talk about speeding tickets another time...) Three. Do #one or #two, but someone neglects to point out to the boys mom/dad that the boy has time. If they insist on pushing it to the next level, the next level will hear of the criminal activity (still active, still on the books)and have to make a Solomon's decision. Do they accept a Scout with a serious legal blemish as an Eagle? By waiting the year, the record is wiped clean. The boy moves on as if it never happened (legally). If the Next Level hems and haws sufficiently, or denies the application, they might end up considering the need(?) to push it to the next next level (etc) and how long does that take? I hope the boy talks to the mom/dad if some adult friend doesn't. On face, if the boy realizes his problem and it's solution, it would appear that the mom may not. The SM has my prayers and sympathy, but I'm not sure I would be moved to resign. What did the SM do to warrant resignation? YiS(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Encourage one part.... Howzabout a Neckerchief Slide Contest?? Go to your local ice cream shoppe and/or bakery and ask for some coupons to use as prizes... Suggested Rules: 1) Entries must be "practical". They must be able to be applied to a neckerchief in the appropriate manner. 2) "On your Honor":, Made by the Scout. Adults may advise, but Boy made only. 3) Create some judging divisions... Carved wood, Carved 'other', 'recycled' masterials, etc. 4) Create some award divisions... Most creative, best use of color, best Scout Spirit, etc. 1st, 2nd, 3rd?? 4) Try to have some outside people do the judging. Art teachers from school? COR? 5) Have the judging and exhibit at a COH or other big event. 6) Announce the contest after deep discussion among the Troop Committee(" Sure, why not? It's your idea, Go for it!") Give it a good time, maybe two or three months? And remind folks.. Pull out the Old Timers slides of yeateryear as inspiration ( ASMs wear the full uni, right?) KiSmIf YiS (This message has been edited by SSScout)

Snore... ah.. snorrf... awha... num num... Headline.......Politician promotes Scouting, gets elected on the "SCOUTING TICKET" (((News item... Curlicue Times Examiner... 9 November 2006))) Swampjumper party caucus announces party platform to include support of Boy Scouts of America. Party chairman Frredland K. Faubus was quoted as saying that his experience as a Boy Scout "did me nothing but good. I can't think of anything more important than teaching boys and girls to be self reliant, well informed citizens." Faubus continued by saying the Swampjumper party would do its best to include Scouting in all children opportunities that are offered in the county schools. He noted that all the children he knew enjoyed "getting dirty and playing with sharp things and fire" and that the Boy and Girl Scouts were famed for training boys and girls in doing so safely..... Snurff... ahum... aha Wha?? Oh... just a dreammmmmmmmm.

Well, let's see... Five miles or fifty, depends on your purpose, I would say. Just walking, running: Shoes, dress for the weather ( hat, sweater, you can always take it off, but you can't put it on if you don't have it), pack/belt bag to carry stuff in, map is good (make sure it's the right map. Once went on the trail with a friend who was sure we had the right map. We did, but he started us from the OTHER end of the trail. No wonder the directions and landmarks didn't quite match up), Water canteen, poncho (sit on it if nothing else), Snack/lunch, small first aid kit, cell phone (why are you out in the woods?)?, camera, ID so they know where to send the body (heh, heh, heh),small plastic trash bags (many uses). Bird/nature study/area history: guide books, charts, binoculars/telescope, notebook, pen/pencil, rock hammer, sample cases, wax paper/newspaper to wrap stuff in. Skills practice: Compass, maps, ropes, climbing gear, large first aid kit, matches, camp stove, etc. Big people carry alot, little people carry a little. Dogs carry their own food and water dish (leash don't forget) Assign a 'point' person in the group and a 'drag'. (is this too organized?) For a large group, no one goes on ahead of the 'Point', no one gets behind the 'drag'. That way, when you stop, you know you have everyone when the 'drag' shows up. Drag should be someone experienced. Helps folks with problems. Don't change directions (fork in the road?) without making sure EVERYONE is aware. Point and Drag can change thru the day, but make sure THEY know who they are. Small walkie talkies? Tell people at home where you are going, how you will get there, when you expect to return. Make contact with the Park Ranger so they know who's around. Don't lock your keys in the car! Maybe arrange a hidden extra key under a fender. Single file, mostly, be respectful of others on the trail. If you bring it in, take it out with you. "Take only pictures leave only footprints". A trash bag can be filled as you go if you are sensitive to the stuff on the trail. Motto: If God didn't put it there, I should pack it out. The longer the trail, the more you should plan. Anticipate. It will always take longer than you think. You will linger at overlooks, stop to chat, get tired, point at pretty rocks, get lost, get side tracked. Allow extra time. Understand that smaller folks, the less experienced, will be slower and may complain more. Be understanding and sympathetic. They will be more likely to come out again. Murphy's Law Hiking Correllary: The item you leave at home will be the item you wish you'd brought. If your group is large enough, parcel out differnt things. You might not each need a large first aid kit, or a camp stove. YiS KiSMiF (This message has been edited by SSScout)(This message has been edited by SSScout)

I was given one of these books at the Jambo from the Methodist Relations Table. It is a collection of little 'sermonettes' by various faith leaders, some well known in their own right, some not so. It was truly a large undertaking for this Eagle candidate to search out all the permissions that were needed to make this happen. Our Methodist brothers are to be congratulated for their support. The book is small, but it holds much more than its size would suggest. The juxtaposition of so many different faiths is also a thought provoker. YiS

"Cook enough for the threshing crew" "Colder'n a well digger's hob nail" "Slower'n molasses in January" "I've seen cleaner hands on a garage clock"

To be more specific: We do play "What if" here. I work for a transit agency, lots of public contact. Figuring out what to do if THIS or THAT should happen, BEFORE it happens, is always a good thing. Encouraging children, especially Scouts, in Conflict Resolution skills is also ALWAYS a good thing. Collecting all the "what ifs" and developing a training session so them that have done it can impart some of their experience on them what ain't yet done it I think is a VERY good thing. That's what the trainers at my agency like to do, occasionally. Since I have not yet been to WB (scheduling for next April), I hope that some of our training will include such "what ifs" as The Cub with the Pocket Knife, The Scout with the Foul Mouth, The Patrol with the Needy Scout (pick the type of "Needy"), The Patrol that Puts a Scout In His Place (Bullying) etc. For conflict resolution, lots of material on the web. Start with Alternatives to Violence Project, www.avpusa.org All volunteer, AVP does training in prisons and community groups . Schools and churches can arrange discussions and training in their area. Childrens Creative Response to Conflict, www.ccrc.org This group was totally volunteer but has since become a professional organization and I think slightly changed their name. YiS KisMif

So I arrive at my polling place, which is the local elementary school, and run the gauntlet thru political hcksters, past the little sandwich signs that proclaim "no electionering past this point, within 100 feet of the polling place", into the building, down the hall, past the cute kindergarten art work, past the Media Center (library in Old Speak), past the murals painted by past students about the town history, past the Main Office and its bulletin boards and pick-up tables ( ummm, no Scout literature, maybe I should... nah), down the hall past... the Lions Club selling Citrus Fruit and Mulch and Afghan throws, the PTA selling candy and brooms(!), past the group touting ESOL classes and... finally into the cafeteria/all-purpose room now turned into the basic tool of Democracy, the voting place. Ummm. Signs in Spanish. I give the lady at the desk my name ("spell that please?") she checks the computer list, ("your birthday? address? No, don't need to see your drivers license.") the printer spits out a ticket ("check everything here, please and sign there... thank you."). I am given a computer chip and led to a touch screen set-up. Slide it in.. Chunk. Ummm -mmm- yep, him, not her, nope, okay, done. Release chip, shoop. Hand chip to next official, into cardboard box. Take offered sticker that reads "I voted" in english AND spanish ( I can get a free Taco at the local restaurant by showing'em this sticker!) It is done til next time. Trust is the key here. Try not to think about All the Presidents Men or recent Robin Williams movies. Paper or Plastic? YiS