SSScout

Oh, it's cluttered, all right. Sorry to say, as the case was presented initially,I would probably vote 'nay'. That said: I have heard many times that something less than 1(one)% of all Scouts are awarded Eagle. In light of THIS thread and several other recent and current threads, I would ask: 1) Is this statistic still true? Does "all Scouts" mean everyboy who EVER signed an application, from Tiger on up or exactly which bunch of Scouts? 2) How much beating/cajoling/encouragement does a horse need to make him drink after the water has been put in front of him? 3) How much truth in the allegation that the Eagle requirements have been "eased" and "modernized" to accomodate "todays" boys? 4) If YOU, fellow Forumates, were a 17 year old Life Scout today (assuming you'd want to be), do you think YOU could balance your academic/family/church/athletic/Scout/band/work/social(girls?) ties and desires? 5) Opinion of the following moral: "Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce" YiS still... (This message has been edited by SSScout)

Radmom: Welcome to the ecrackerbarrel. And congrats on the obvious excellent Pack. Bright colors for the vests... One size fits all? Make'm big enough so they will fit ALL thru age 10 or 11!!My First Class Scout has the Cub vest as a trophy. Velcro for closure? All it has to do is hold it on the Cub! YiS

"Duty to God" Ummmmm....... "I expect to pass through this world but once; any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now; let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again" = = Stephan Grellet = = "He hath shown thee, O man, what is good, and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God. = = Micah 6:8 == .... Something called ""The Golden Rule"" comes to mind... And many other religions (ethical systems?) also have 'instructions' that sound alot like the G/R. Try www.religiontolerance.org/reciproc.htm Is it possible that Athiestic folks can do 'Duty to God" without personally acknowledging that the Duty they do is done to/for/appreciated by God with out knowing it? If I park my car in an unmarked spot without knowing that that is the spot the law wants me to park in, have I not done my duty to the law without even knowing that that is my duty? (convolution is fun if one doesn't get too dizzy) Stretch yourself. Do several good turns daily. YiS

As we approach Thanksgiving, I find myself thinking about food... and graces... I once used this story as a lead in to a Blue and Gold banquet, I honestly can't say where I originally found it. For your consideration.... The Tribe Elder and his grandson were sitting and watching the sunset. The grandson noticed his elder was more pensive than usual, and asked him what he was thinking about. The old man smiled at the boy and said, "my boy, there are two wolves inside me, and they fight. They are called by many names. The first is Love, Creation, Sympathy, Understanding and Tolerance. The second wolf is Hatred, Destruction, Intolerance, Bigotry, and Impatience. These two are strong and fight in me every day. And I know they fight in YOU, my son." Here the old man paused and stared off at the fading sun. The boy said, "grandfather, which wolf will win?" The grandfather gazed down at the boy and said, "the one you feed." YiS

epalmer writes:"Wearing them on the uniform is not useful. In a camping situation where the Scout is building a fire or using a knife, he isn't wearing the official uniform" Oh, but wearing them on the uniform is very useful. As mentioned before, the badges Scouts wear denote their acquired proficiency and general knowledge. As Staff at Camporee, I find it very useful to see a First Class bdge on a Scout and expect a certain expertise. Same for Tot'n Chip. I see many layers of shirt pocket flaps among senior Scouts everywhere I go in the Scout world. And, anyway, in every picture in the Scout handbook and catalog, everyone's wearing the 'field' uniform, right? Look at Boy's Life. Uniforms! A

epalmer writes:"Wearing them on the uniform is not useful. In a camping situation where the Scout is building a fire or using a knife, he isn't wearing the official uniform" Oh, but wearing them on the uniform is very useful. As mentioned before, the badges Scouts wear denote their acquired proficiency and general knowledge. As Staff at Camporee, I find it very useful to see a First Class bdge on a Scout and expect a certain expertise. Same for Tot'n Chip. I see many layers of shirt pocket flaps among senior Scouts everywhere I go in the Scout world. And, anyway, in every picture in the Scout handbook and catalog, everyone's wearing the 'field' uniform, right? Look at Boy's Life. Uniforms! A

Somewhere in the past posts it is appropriate to interject Gandhi's comment that "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and soon the whole world is blind and toothless". But I forget where.

I just reviewed the whole thread ( more like a rope now?). Estee, welcome. You picked a truly classic discussion for getting your electronic feet wet. MMMMM, football as a metaphor for Scouting...mmmmmm.... Is Scouting a religion? if so, which one? If not, is it a collection of religions? if so, which ones? Which are excluded, if any? If religions are not a defining quality of Scouting, what then is our "duty to God"? Is the BS of A the final definition of Scouting? I am not sure about that, having seen some of the rest of the Wonderful World of S-ing. I have grown to like the idea that we should encourage our Scouts to do their "duty to God" as THEY see fit. It is ultimately not my job, or ANY Scouter, to tell them what that 'duty' is. Or, to try and get that Scout to see the same Ultimate Source that I see. It's a mighty big elephant and we are a mighty lot of blind men, trying to descibe how we 'see it' from our piece of elephant. (Rudyard Kipling, I believe) If, as BP tried to say, the 'good turn', the 'natural woods', the 'being prepared' to help wherever and whenever one can ("why, for any old thing"),the chivalry game, all is an indirect way to bring a boy around to realizing his connectiveness to the greater world/Godhead/creation/force("use it,Luke!"), then 'good on yer', to get Australian. Take'em hiking, canoeing, camping and let the magic work. (sharp things and fire, right??) If Christ is my way, as a Christian, I cannot insist that YOU have to follow MY way to good, responsible behavior. I know alot of professed Christians that sure don't look or act like him. And, to really confuse yourself, look up Gandhi's take religion. Started out Hindu, later professed to be Christian, Buddhist, Hindu and Mohammadan. Said he thought Christians should act more like Christ (radical, man!) "The humble, meek, merciful,just, pious and devout souls are of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask they will know one another, though the diverse liveries they wear here make them strangers" == William Penn == "By their fruits ye shall know them" JC said that.(look it up yerself),and a good Scout is a good Scout, be he from Bombay or Bayonne. YiS. (This message has been edited by SSScout)

Baden: The hardest part of a judges job is not deciding the truth or falsity of alledged actions, but the INTENT... Choices... One. Convene the EBOR. Pass the Scout or deny. If deny, state reasons. ALL of them. State way to redress problems and reapply at a later time. A year later? Scout is instructed that he may appeal the denial to the next levels. Let him. What particular part of the Scout Promise and Law is this again?. (BTW: What about the other CHILDREN involved?) Two. BOR refuses to meet, it is as if the boy never asked for a convened board. Tell the boy that in order to avoid making a record of his problem (which everyone is aware of, anyway) they will make NO decision. Please come back when your record has been expunged. At that time we will consider your Eagle application, which, BTW, looks pretty good. Done all the time, when the perp is a first time, very young, truly remorseful person. It is desirable to get your case expunged. No record for employer checks. No security check problems. WAY back when, I had a brush with the law. My dads attorney, a very wise man, asked that the case be "nol prosed" (never went to trial), and I was on unofficial probation for a year, at which time the case was expunged. No record of it. No problem. I've been "clean" since. (we'll talk about speeding tickets another time...) Three. Do #one or #two, but someone neglects to point out to the boys mom/dad that the boy has time. If they insist on pushing it to the next level, the next level will hear of the criminal activity (still active, still on the books)and have to make a Solomon's decision. Do they accept a Scout with a serious legal blemish as an Eagle? By waiting the year, the record is wiped clean. The boy moves on as if it never happened (legally). If the Next Level hems and haws sufficiently, or denies the application, they might end up considering the need(?) to push it to the next next level (etc) and how long does that take? I hope the boy talks to the mom/dad if some adult friend doesn't. On face, if the boy realizes his problem and it's solution, it would appear that the mom may not. The SM has my prayers and sympathy, but I'm not sure I would be moved to resign. What did the SM do to warrant resignation? YiS(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Encourage one part.... Howzabout a Neckerchief Slide Contest?? Go to your local ice cream shoppe and/or bakery and ask for some coupons to use as prizes... Suggested Rules: 1) Entries must be "practical". They must be able to be applied to a neckerchief in the appropriate manner. 2) "On your Honor":, Made by the Scout. Adults may advise, but Boy made only. 3) Create some judging divisions... Carved wood, Carved 'other', 'recycled' masterials, etc. 4) Create some award divisions... Most creative, best use of color, best Scout Spirit, etc. 1st, 2nd, 3rd?? 4) Try to have some outside people do the judging. Art teachers from school? COR? 5) Have the judging and exhibit at a COH or other big event. 6) Announce the contest after deep discussion among the Troop Committee(" Sure, why not? It's your idea, Go for it!") Give it a good time, maybe two or three months? And remind folks.. Pull out the Old Timers slides of yeateryear as inspiration ( ASMs wear the full uni, right?) KiSmIf YiS (This message has been edited by SSScout)

Snore... ah.. snorrf... awha... num num... Headline.......Politician promotes Scouting, gets elected on the "SCOUTING TICKET" (((News item... Curlicue Times Examiner... 9 November 2006))) Swampjumper party caucus announces party platform to include support of Boy Scouts of America. Party chairman Frredland K. Faubus was quoted as saying that his experience as a Boy Scout "did me nothing but good. I can't think of anything more important than teaching boys and girls to be self reliant, well informed citizens." Faubus continued by saying the Swampjumper party would do its best to include Scouting in all children opportunities that are offered in the county schools. He noted that all the children he knew enjoyed "getting dirty and playing with sharp things and fire" and that the Boy and Girl Scouts were famed for training boys and girls in doing so safely..... Snurff... ahum... aha Wha?? Oh... just a dreammmmmmmmm.

Well, let's see... Five miles or fifty, depends on your purpose, I would say. Just walking, running: Shoes, dress for the weather ( hat, sweater, you can always take it off, but you can't put it on if you don't have it), pack/belt bag to carry stuff in, map is good (make sure it's the right map. Once went on the trail with a friend who was sure we had the right map. We did, but he started us from the OTHER end of the trail. No wonder the directions and landmarks didn't quite match up), Water canteen, poncho (sit on it if nothing else), Snack/lunch, small first aid kit, cell phone (why are you out in the woods?)?, camera, ID so they know where to send the body (heh, heh, heh),small plastic trash bags (many uses). Bird/nature study/area history: guide books, charts, binoculars/telescope, notebook, pen/pencil, rock hammer, sample cases, wax paper/newspaper to wrap stuff in. Skills practice: Compass, maps, ropes, climbing gear, large first aid kit, matches, camp stove, etc. Big people carry alot, little people carry a little. Dogs carry their own food and water dish (leash don't forget) Assign a 'point' person in the group and a 'drag'. (is this too organized?) For a large group, no one goes on ahead of the 'Point', no one gets behind the 'drag'. That way, when you stop, you know you have everyone when the 'drag' shows up. Drag should be someone experienced. Helps folks with problems. Don't change directions (fork in the road?) without making sure EVERYONE is aware. Point and Drag can change thru the day, but make sure THEY know who they are. Small walkie talkies? Tell people at home where you are going, how you will get there, when you expect to return. Make contact with the Park Ranger so they know who's around. Don't lock your keys in the car! Maybe arrange a hidden extra key under a fender. Single file, mostly, be respectful of others on the trail. If you bring it in, take it out with you. "Take only pictures leave only footprints". A trash bag can be filled as you go if you are sensitive to the stuff on the trail. Motto: If God didn't put it there, I should pack it out. The longer the trail, the more you should plan. Anticipate. It will always take longer than you think. You will linger at overlooks, stop to chat, get tired, point at pretty rocks, get lost, get side tracked. Allow extra time. Understand that smaller folks, the less experienced, will be slower and may complain more. Be understanding and sympathetic. They will be more likely to come out again. Murphy's Law Hiking Correllary: The item you leave at home will be the item you wish you'd brought. If your group is large enough, parcel out differnt things. You might not each need a large first aid kit, or a camp stove. YiS KiSMiF (This message has been edited by SSScout)(This message has been edited by SSScout)

I was given one of these books at the Jambo from the Methodist Relations Table. It is a collection of little 'sermonettes' by various faith leaders, some well known in their own right, some not so. It was truly a large undertaking for this Eagle candidate to search out all the permissions that were needed to make this happen. Our Methodist brothers are to be congratulated for their support. The book is small, but it holds much more than its size would suggest. The juxtaposition of so many different faiths is also a thought provoker. YiS

"Cook enough for the threshing crew" "Colder'n a well digger's hob nail" "Slower'n molasses in January" "I've seen cleaner hands on a garage clock"

To be more specific: We do play "What if" here. I work for a transit agency, lots of public contact. Figuring out what to do if THIS or THAT should happen, BEFORE it happens, is always a good thing. Encouraging children, especially Scouts, in Conflict Resolution skills is also ALWAYS a good thing. Collecting all the "what ifs" and developing a training session so them that have done it can impart some of their experience on them what ain't yet done it I think is a VERY good thing. That's what the trainers at my agency like to do, occasionally. Since I have not yet been to WB (scheduling for next April), I hope that some of our training will include such "what ifs" as The Cub with the Pocket Knife, The Scout with the Foul Mouth, The Patrol with the Needy Scout (pick the type of "Needy"), The Patrol that Puts a Scout In His Place (Bullying) etc. For conflict resolution, lots of material on the web. Start with Alternatives to Violence Project, www.avpusa.org All volunteer, AVP does training in prisons and community groups . Schools and churches can arrange discussions and training in their area. Childrens Creative Response to Conflict, www.ccrc.org This group was totally volunteer but has since become a professional organization and I think slightly changed their name. YiS KisMif

So I arrive at my polling place, which is the local elementary school, and run the gauntlet thru political hcksters, past the little sandwich signs that proclaim "no electionering past this point, within 100 feet of the polling place", into the building, down the hall, past the cute kindergarten art work, past the Media Center (library in Old Speak), past the murals painted by past students about the town history, past the Main Office and its bulletin boards and pick-up tables ( ummm, no Scout literature, maybe I should... nah), down the hall past... the Lions Club selling Citrus Fruit and Mulch and Afghan throws, the PTA selling candy and brooms(!), past the group touting ESOL classes and... finally into the cafeteria/all-purpose room now turned into the basic tool of Democracy, the voting place. Ummm. Signs in Spanish. I give the lady at the desk my name ("spell that please?") she checks the computer list, ("your birthday? address? No, don't need to see your drivers license.") the printer spits out a ticket ("check everything here, please and sign there... thank you."). I am given a computer chip and led to a touch screen set-up. Slide it in.. Chunk. Ummm -mmm- yep, him, not her, nope, okay, done. Release chip, shoop. Hand chip to next official, into cardboard box. Take offered sticker that reads "I voted" in english AND spanish ( I can get a free Taco at the local restaurant by showing'em this sticker!) It is done til next time. Trust is the key here. Try not to think about All the Presidents Men or recent Robin Williams movies. Paper or Plastic? YiS

Hello? National? Hello. I participate in the "Scouter Forum" ? And I was... No. It's an on line discussion of Scout Stuff. Uh-huh. I was wondering if you all were listening to any of the discussions we have here? Uh-huh. Well,we had one really good one about a Cub Scout pulling out a pocket knife and threatening another Cub with it. Oh, we know about the G2SS and the various NLT and Child Protection stuff. That's right. Yes. Well I'd like to ask if the Wood Badge 21st courses might include some role playing for stuff like the Cub with a Knife scenerio. Oh, you haven't read that one? Call which committee? Uh-huh. uh-huh. Okay, but you see, in my work, we have to play "What if " games all the time. We are encouraged to think about how we might respond to various problems, not just read about them in a "Guide" . Okay. Good. But can you tell me who I might contact... Yes, I've read that, that's not...No not there. ... Well, I am planning on... No, not til next April...so I can't suggest... But you see it DOES come up ... and happen...but wouldn't it be better to think about a proper response before...Uh-huh...Okay... Yes, I will suggest it to my Wood Badge Scoutmaster.. Okay. No. Thank.. Thank you, You have a nice day.

So you line up some big barrels and label them "Smith for senator" "Jones for Senator" Beetlebaum for Governor", Natchez Trace for Governor," Clyde Feester for County Council," Begeesus McMurphy for County Council," ETC. and tell people to vote with their Canned Food!! Fill up the barrel!! Gross tonnage wins the election!! Jes a thot... YiS

cmckean: mega dittoes: Welcome to the electronic crackerbarrel (a better appellation, I think. Fire tends to melt circuitboards. Check out some of the socio-political discussions here, and marvel that we have escaped meltdowns more than once). I was privileged to serve in the Chaplain Corps at the last Jambo. I was most gratified to see such a cooperative and accepting group of faithful men (and women). I was part of a very desparate group. And I never once saw or heard one faith disparaged at the expense of another. More stories about that another time... We had a survey that was as inclusive as I could imagine. It was very upfront, asking "with what faith do you best identify youself" and then listing maybe 40 religions names and 'other'! I don't remember the exact breakdown or census count, but you might contact the Relationships Committee at National and ask them. Now if I could only find that phone number... So, Unless your CO somehow limits membership to one faith (see particular threads about Catholic Troops), I don't think I would go fishing. These subjects generally come up either at the best, most opportune time, or at the absolutely worst of times. Either way you (as the Chap) may well be very surprised ("OOO, I didn't think...") or very amused (" well, I never would have guessed, Oh well...") or led to some very interesting conversations ("Wow, Really? Do you mean..." )("ya know, I never would have thought of that."). So what have you got to lose? You end up challenged and your own faith is reinforced or redefined, or perhaps you help reinforce or redefine someone elses, or at the very least you gain in knowledge about myriad parts of God's creation. In the mean time, I agree non-denominational "Scouts Own" services are a challenging, fun thing to attempt. Check out the various "Chaplain" links herein. ""May the Great Scoutmaster of all Scouts be with you til we meet again""" YiS

Thank you Hunt and Pack. Thee speaks my mind. I remember an old Arab (!) proverb that starts out with a camel who convinces his master that his nose is cold, so the master allows tha camel to put his nose inside the masters tent.... Soon the master is outside the tent and the camel is totally inside. Some of our wise leaders are trying us... what is allowed, what is not. What are their boundaries, the ones that we, the electorate, set. What will we allow?. What will our Constitution allow, not just for a "citizen" but for a "guest", whether willing or unwilling. How we treat a fellow human being shows to the world where our moral compass points. We already went thru alot of this back in 1865. It was agreed (against many peoples opinion) that the color of a man's skin does not presuppose him to be less of a man than someone else. That darker hued man is not TORTURED or executed due to his skin tone, but thru a public trial and due to publicly shown evidence of his guilt of a crime. (see Saddam Husseins trial). Here is where Habeas Corpus comes in. How many Dictators have "dissappeared" people that were ... inconvenient for them? Find the terrorists... prove their guilt or complicity... allow them a defence... then remove them from society to the degree called for. If our society and economic system is so distasteful to some in the world (and some of it is distasteful even by our standards. Another thread...uh ho) then find out how we can make it better. By some standards, the World Bank has done more harm than good. The railroad magnates of the 19th century were ugly greedy folks. Unions made them behave better. But many folks suffered thru that struggle. Is that simplistic? Is it true? Our world is a better place due to the struggles that our predecessors fought, the inventions they created, the ideas they argued, the 'truth they spoke to power' . Then how can Scouting, one boy at a time, make the world better?? Not just here in the US, but in Dafur? In Iraq? In China? In Haiti? (phew, too much to say, not enough fingers to type) "You have not convinced a man if you kill him"

Actual Scouts...Whoa... Actually, actual Scouts might be a nice change, actually...Nice change from all them virtual, make believe Scouts we've been hearing about. No kidding, ES06, glad to hear you (if not see). A more youthful perspective is always welcome to help counter the ole fuddy duddy side (we know who we are!) Think Rocking Chair Patrol. How you been? What's on your mind? YiS

Ditto about all that's been mentioned SPy Museum is a commercial venture. It is expensive, but cool. Accomodations??? Check out the International Hostel. Inexpensive, do some chores, meet some new people from all over the world. Right in the middle of Down Town DC. www.hiwashingtondc.org . One must join Hosteling International as a Troop or as individuals (think future use). Big groups NEED reservations... Also, look up the National Building Museum, in the old Pension Building. Near Metro, changing exhibits about construction, history of buildings, architecture. Introduce yourselves, they have Scout badge activiies, depending... Godspeed. YiS

Once upon a time, I was a "Special Tutor" in middle school. Kids with a particular problem (might be with a particular teacher, or a subject or needed help to catch up after a lengthy illness...) would meet with me for a period or two each day. I was a jack of all subjects! Worked close with the counseling office and the Asst Principal. One young girl had troubles with 5 of her 6 classes. Intelligent girl. With me, her school work was fine. But she could not meet with me 5 periods a day for the rest of the school year. The Asst. Princ. said he had met with the dad, who said, in essence, "not my darling girl!! Must be a problem with your *+?#$% teachers!!" Notes home got the same result. Asst princ arranged a meeting with both parents, the girl, all six teachers, and me. First time the dad had been presented with a united front. He could not refute eight adults all saying his "darling" was a hellion in class (except for math, which she loved). Result: Dad got homework: SPend one hour undiluted time with his daughter each night. Sign off her homework assignments. Sign off on weekly reports from each teacher thru the asst Princ. This lasted a month. The girls grades went from Ds to As and Bs, her activity reports went positive. She no longer needed my time and attention. Lesson for the present situation:. Mom may be getting (and believing) a highly filtered version of the incidents. She and Dad need to be made to believe that Cub needs everything that has been mentioned above, ("get his attention") AND Cub needs direct parent attention. AND the Pack needs 'bully' attention, too. What do we expect of a CUB SCOUT? "... the Cub Scout gives good will." I would be sure to somehow include the boys that backed up the Cub in the hat incident. They "got involved". Give'm a private Attaboy. Would that more people would "get involved" when they see something wrong happening. You may have to put it all in writing so all can finally agree on what happened, and what the consequences will be. And stick to it. It might not be a bad idea to include your DE, 'cause stuff like this can come back to haunt you. YiS.

Well, I can agree with some of my Scout brothers/sisters, but not all. Check the other thread about voting... SRBeaver: Thank you. I spent the best part of a week a couple summers ago teaching Cubs how to use a compass. (aside: recent NOVA PBS program about the earths magnetic field shifting.Gotta see that one again...) It occurs to me that along with a magnetic compass, we are charged with training our boys how to use their MORAL compass. Do we really want to have our country known for its great ability to enact REVENGE on captured soldiers/spies/alleged terrorists/convicted terrrorists/anti(pick a subject) folks ? And that is what torture ultimately is, not just to "extract" information, but to affect revenge for acts of our enemy, real or imagined. Read 1984 . And what evidence do we have that torture really reliably gains useful, real, intel? Is it worth our national reputation? Yes, we have enemies. Yes some around the world hate us (pick a reason). Do we really 'convince' them of our superior political/economic system by putting electrodes to their gonads? Read the thread about the Cub and the knife. What was that boy hoping to accomplish by his act? And why would the CM want to dissuade him from that choice of action? Perhaps the Abu Gharaib staff would like such a man in 10 years... I have a friend who works in the prison system, helping the inmates see a different way of living... She tells me that the biggest change comes not just when the inmate "gets religion", which ever one it is, but when the inmate sees the other fellow as HIMSELF. The Golden Rule we call it. It goes by other names in other faith and ethical traditions. I remember an interview by Jack Paar of Dick Gregory. Gregory has always espoused simple non-violence, but as young as I was at the time, I was deeply impressed by Gregory's argument and sincerity. One can not teach peace with violence. "The beatings will continue until morale improves" reads the poster on the boss's wall. Only half tongue in cheek. OOps. Gotta get to work. The bank says I don't yet own my house all by myself. Thank you for this chance to pray out loud. Romans 12:19-23 YiS

And I try to explain to my son (22 yearold daughter has already given up on politics) as we watch 'Liberty's Kids' how the electoral system works...and why his grummy and his mom and I am going to the polls to vote. And I try to explain why George Washington (the original dubya) refused to even think about accepting the title "your Excellency", how he preferred "Mr. President". We went to Annapolis last year and watched a recreation of George Washington resigning his commission as Commander in Chief of the Continental Army to the Continental Congress. Very moving... "...tip my hat to the new Constitution, take a bow to the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around..." Vote. While you can.