SSScout

Spinning pins.... Look to the rear of the pin, clean it well with a little alcohol on a cloth. If the back is really smooth, rough it up a bit with a little fine sand paper or scratch it with a knife blade a little. THEN... A SMALL dab of hot glue on each side of the pin/pin. Not too big a dab, now. Let it dry. When you attach it (pin the pin with the pin) to your uni or hat, it will be not spin. You're welcome.

The single biggest hit at our CSDC? I contacted the State Police and arranged for their Medivac helicopter ("Trooper Eight")to land, on cue, as all the boys are sitted around "Akela Heliport". Blew tents, tarps, hats, Denwalkers shirts all over. The pilot and his EMT spoke about the aircraft, the equipment, their missions, the schooling they needed for almost an hour. The boys got to meet some real live local heroes. And when they took off, 300 MPH downwash wind from the rotors made everyone smile and hold on to their hats again! Make sure you have a large enough area. Call the State Police Aviation Section (or what ever their local title) early enough, and ask their advice.. Paint a "Heliport" symbol (big 'H' in a triangle) on the ground and enclose it with safety tape on posts. Keep the State Police Air Dispatcher phone number on your cell phone for the day, just in case. Bet your woggle we'll do it again this year! "Ask and they will come"

Discuss the computer concept of "G I G O" with your significant youngers.

"Religion::n. 1) the service and worship of God or the supernatural 2) devotion to a religious faith 3)a personalset or institutionalized system of religious beliefs, attitudes and practices 4) a cause, principle or belief held to with faith and ardor. Religious organizations that are not religions::: National Council of Churches, Habitat for Humanity, Tolerance, Inc., Interfaith Council, Cops for Christ, The Christian Childrens Fund, The Gideons, The Red Crescent, Knights of Columbus, American Friends Service Committee, any Department of Religious Studies at your local College, usw, etc. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment..." don't mean Congress can't encourage the people to pursue the religion (or religious organizations) of their choice... hence, some orgs are tax exempt, without regard to their flavor of religiosity. I think the Ethical Society nearby is also tax exempt. It's all good. "By their fruits ye shall know them". Seems to me it's not so much what the persons action is, so much as the rationale that is in debate here. Our country is notable because of its protection of the minority group in any debate/conflict/discussion/argument. If the Majority wills one thing, the minority is free to do its thing so long as that thing does not interfere with the Majority. If the M wants to do rites and practices and does not coerce the m to also participate under the same conditions, we're OK. So if a m enters a XYZ church and the m starts making a commotion, the M of the XYZ church has the right (not rite) to remove the m. If the m wants to participate (or watch) and the M does not object (Mormon Temples are "private", Masonic Temples are "private"), then come on in. ??? At least here in the US... (This message has been edited by SSScout)

Go to "Oriental Trading Co." Wade thru the glitzy dross in their catalog, they have a very passable compass, colorful plastic, rotating bezel, degrees marked by 3s, on a string. DO NOT order the black and white compass without the string, it is NOT magnetic, only for looks. About a buck each, less if you order by the dozen. Used them for CSDC for Cub M&C Belt loop. Here's what we did: Maps on the wall, graded down by scale: National Geographic map of the universe, then the Solar System, then the world, then North America, then the State, then the County, then the Park and lake. Talked about scale, symbols, latitude, longitude,etc. Oriented the maps to each other. Then some fun "On three, everyone point NORTH! 1,2,3!!" Talk about confusion. Pass out compasses. Talk about magnetic north versus geographic north, east, west, south. Play with compasses, attracted to steel columns, table legs, etc. Stay away from them! Walk a set compass course, practice pacing off a set distance. Practice walking a straight line by sighting a compass angle, sight on and then walk toward a landmark.. All done in less than an hour. String on compass lets it be looped onto the totem cord or belt. KiS MiF YiS

Overly protectivity is not gender specific. I led trips for AYH. A father called me, his 14 year old son was signed up for a weeklong bike trip, would I check over his bike? I said certainly, bring it over. He and his son arrived alittle later. I tightened and trued and talked to them about the trip. The father asked how the teens on the trip would travel. I said once they were on Cape Cod, by bike. The trip was totally self contained, they and their leaders carry everything on their bikes and stay in hostels and campgrounds. He said, they carry EVERYTHING? I said yes. He said that wasn't clear when they signed up. The boy says, yes it was, don't you remember...? When I was finished with the bike, I told the boy to take it around the block and see how it rode. The dad followed in the car. It was starting to drizzle a little. When they got back, the boy thanked me and started to put the bike in the car. The dad asked, what happens if it rains? I said they get wet. He seemed honestly surprised by my answer, but said nothing, I remembered he looked at the boy. We talked about raingear and drying off. When they left, I was not sure if the dad wasn't going along to Cape Cod, but I thought I had seen an understanding grin and shake of the head from the boy as they got in the car.

What Hunt said and what OGE said... The biggest problem is always when one says their club/org/association is "so and so" and no others need apply. What one truly wants is a club/org/association with a defined purpose and character that will allow ALL to join in with the understanding that 'here's the way we is' and if they will allow for the way things is, welcome and be seated. But if the joiner is eager to change the definition and character, then they should be prepared to be unappreciated. Build houses for the disadvantaged? Great. Say a prayer over the new owner? That's what we are. Join Scouts and accept a 'Scout's Own' on sunday morning of the campout. That's the way we are. Join a Muslim CPack, expect a certain behavior. Join a Troop sponsored by an American Legion Post, expect flag waving. Etc. Usw.

15 Scouts. 3 adult Scouters. 3 "real" patrols in troop, but for the purposes of the campout, two patrols are created. Hike in short distance, set up Friday night dry. SM sleeps alone in his small tent. One ASM sleeps w/son in their tent. Third adult (parent of attending Scout) sleeps alone in his NEW tent. SPL sleeps alone in his small tent. Rest of Scouts pair up in troop tents, three in one bigger tent. Camp is set up, and map & compass, Nature study goes on Saturday.. It POURS down rain that night. Third adult new tent leaks like sieve. Three boy tent leaks in one side and soaks one sleeping bag (love those bathtub bottoms). ASM moves into van for night. One boy of three moves in with ASM son. SM and Third adult bunk together, snugly. SPL throw tarp over his tent and avoids the obvious. Rest of Troop stays reasonably dry. Sunday morning, sun breaks out and a dryer day is enjoyed. Boys learn how to adapt. YiS

"Daddy, what's that sign?" "That's a speed limit sign" "But what does it say?" "It READS 'speed limit 40', Jacky" "And why does it reeeead 'speed limit 40', daddy?" "Because that's the speed that the police think is a safe speed for cars to be traveling on the road in this area, son" "Is that your speed -oh-meter, daddy?" "Yes" "And does that show how fast we are going?" "Yes." "It's pointing to the six-five, daddy" "Uh, no it's not, see those little lines are the numbers between the big numbers, so now it's pointing to the 40 one two three four five, see?" "Uh-huh. What is the sign for, daddy?" "It's supposed to tell people not to go faster than forty miles per hour, 'cause it's not safe. If you do, and they catch you, you can get punished." "So you go faster so they can't catch you?" "No, son, I go faster because... because I get in a hurry and I forget sometimes. Doesn't make it right. But if everyone drove however they wanted, or as fast as they wanted, we'd have alot more accidents and alot more people would get hurt. See?" "Uh-huh. But isn't 45 more than 40?" "Uh, yes." "So are you going to get punished?" "I hope not." "So are you going faster than forty?" "Well, see, sometimes the speed limit is really really safe, but you can safely drive a little faster. And the police won't bother you if you exceed the speed limit unless you are traveling a whole lot faster than than the speed limit. It's called 'leeway'" "Leeway?" " Yes. The term comes from old sailing ship days. It's a persons judgement. You'll usually never go wrong following the rules. The authorities go to alot of thought and trouble to figure out these rules so everyone will be safe. So you should be really clear and have a really good reason not to follow a rule and be ready to take the punishment if they catch you at it. Sometimes if you explain what your reason was the judge or whoever is going to punish you.." "Like you and me, daddy?" "Yeah, like you and me. Sometimes they won't punish you if you have a really good reason for not doing the rule." "Uh-huh." "Jacky?" "Yes,daddy?" "You're a good teacher, you know that?" "I am?" "Yes you are. Okay, here we are. Put your seatbelt back, there. Hello Ms kelly, here he is..." "Goodbye daddy. Drive safely!!" "I will. You be good, now." "Okay, daddy"

Not only should the Ws' get a program that will involve them and lead them on to being "loyal Scouts" (where did I hear that?), a creative CM will know to include his Ws in the leadership of the Pack. The younger Cubs should be able to look up to the Ws as examples (Wow! I'll get to do XY and Z when I become a W!), but the Ws should be encouraged to take on some leadership roles in the Pack. Good flag ceremonies, skits, knot tying demos, uniform wear, etc. Don't let them become a CS elitist group, which only says to themselves (and as read by the younger Cubs) "Hey, when can I get out of this kiddie play group?" Include them, use them, appreciate them. Let's see now, it was only sigalevety ump years ago that I was a Lion Cub and then a Webelos and then... I seem to remember that when Lion Cub was eliminated, the graduation became Wolf, Bear, Junior Webelos , Senior Webelos. Am I remembering that right?

The Jambo can be, I would aver, divided into four types of people. There is (are?) the pro staff, the volunteer staff, the Scout participants and the visitors. And the military support staff, I guess. Five types. It is, IMHO, one of the best uses of military spending around. The Scout Participants are selected by a competitive method. Not everybody who applies can attend. I think (correct me here) but each national region/council selects the Scouts that attend from their area. Draw from a hat? Write an essay? Know somebody who knows somebody? The method is unknown to me, but in my attendance last time, I was led to believe that each area had their own criterion for selection. And any one else can show up and attend for the day, and participate in anything for which you feel like standing in line. Upwards of 43,000 last time, plans for 75,000 in 2010??? Whoa! Hope to see you there!

My Scoutmaster said,"soap the pot, And the cleaning will go like a shot" So that's what I did, Bottom, in, out and lid. Bubbly stew but edible...not! Poison Ivy has green leaflets three. Scouts certainly know this, don't we? Yet we sometimes get lesions In sensitive regions From using the wrong leaning tree...

Added Value... "And if you order your belt before 10:30, we will include , absolutely free, a simulated brass safety clip that is specially designed JUST for your belt!" Things I have seen hanging from the clip (sometimes more than one): -pocket knife. -compass. -match safe. -coil of rope. -signal flag (?linesman?) -ANOTHER clip. -dog leash, with small dog attached! Any more?

Oy veys mir... I'm not sure I have boots tall enough to wade thru all this... In no particular order... I was referring to Jesus' having no POLITICAL power, not spiritual power. Yes, he allowed a lot to happen to fulfill the prophecies and his Fathers will, but still, he had no POLITICAL power. And that is what is spoken of here. Constitutional law... as opposed to moral rectitude... The Great Compromise allowed the southern states to count the SLAVES as less than a whole human. And then not allow them to vote, because they (slaves) were not citizens, but "property". Back then, the Constitution Acknowledged slavery, but it's hard to say that it CONDONED it. Most of our Founding Fathers mentioned the moral evil of slavery, but had no easy way to end it. So the Constitution did acknowledge the holding of Humans as Property, not as Humans. But then so did the Bible (acknowledge, not condone...). Another topic. A whole lot of people worked to correct that error. I like the previous observation that the Hebrews were given the Ten Commandments, telling them "Thou shalt not kill" and then were instructed to go and annihilate an entire population so they (the Hebrew people) could inhabit that land. Makes me shiver. So, when it comes to personal relations, political action, social exchanges, language used, interpretation of law.... WWJD? TBC...

David.self: Welcome to the forum! ( or is it the colliseum? Hard to tell sometimes) Let's see now, Jesus was not european, but Pilate was. Jesus had no power, but Pilate had the power of life and death in the land, speaking for Caesar. Pilate "washed his hands" of the affair, and let the "locals" deal with their "problem". I perceive that the previous thread was (in part) dealing with how one treats people who are of a different color/heritage/religion/language than oneself. Some folks perceive themselves as superior to others by virtue of their place of birth or type of parents or professed religious faith and hence suppose that it is appropriate to deal with those "others" by excluding them from those areas that the self declared superior folks have control over: Schooling, housing, employment. The British attempted it in India.("White man's burden") . Mahatma Gandhi led a successful non- violent rebellion there. It was VERY non-violent, but people still died. So is Jesus' example appropriate here? What does THAT have to do with THIS? I think Lisabob spoke to part of it. Many primitive tribes have names for themselves that translate into english as "the people". If WE are "the people", that makes every one else NOT the people, and it is therefore correct to NOT deal with THOSE as EQUALS. It really did take an act of Congress (and the SCOTUS) to declare that someone with dark skin IS "a man". And not an "other". Why did the Constitutional convention come to "The Great Compromise" when dealing with the "negroes" of the southern states? I do not belive that the "war of northern aggression" was fought over purely "States Rights". Unless it was the "right" to keep the "others" in their place. Hope that helped. YiS

It occurs to me that Jesus was not a white caucasoid european. Presumably neither was the Sanhedron. But Pilate was. TS: WWJD?

Aztec human sacrefice... ummm... Well, I guess we missed that one back in Abraham's time. Here's a site to mess with your collective minds and stretch the idea of inclusiveness... it seems there are many, many "true faiths". www.religioustolerance.org Is there a Scout movement in Haiti? do they have a Voodoo religious award?

"Veeery Interesting. But Shtupid." =Artie Johnson= MRL: Now you've got my attention. Except for those who accept the faith given them by their family and environs ( Friends use the term 'birthright'), one's expressed faith is a choice. And it is correct to use the term "convinced". Most Friends these days ARE "convinced". That is the term we use for those that come to worship with us and after a time CHOOSE (decide??) to declare themselves in agreement with Friend principles and testimonies. It is ultimately a CHOICE, even if it is a choice not to change. Evangelicals, of what ever persuasion, have as their mission to CONVINCE you of the rightness, the correctness, of their position/opinion/religion/faith. And, yes, Athiesm is a religion. It is a belief in the non-existance of God. Look up any Ethical Society and you will find an organization with all the trappings of a church/temple/mosque except the name. Sermons (lectures), Study groups (discussions), Sunday school (youth groups), even hymn sings (musicales). Choose for an hour? Naw, that's experimenting, not choosing. Choosing is declaring onesself, much as you have. Choosing is telling the world what you are. "Here I stand". That's the importance of water baptism for a Baptist. Pick a religion, and there is usually a way for the proponent to publicly declare themselves. "Is you is or is you ain't my baby". Thank you Fats Waller. YiS

Friend LongHaul speaks much of my mind. I do not choose to be a Jew. I do not choose to be a Baptist. I do not choose to be an athiest. But I could. We have that choice and the results accordingly. But some folks, in their search for truth either 1) do not search, but accept what has been given them already by family, or school. or 2) settle in to a faith (yeah even atheism can be called a faith) that seems to suit them, a 'comfort zone' or 3) keep looking to find an explanation for how the world came to be, as it is or as it might be, or 4) to explain what comes after THIS life, or.... I am still reminded of Kipling's story of the several blind men trying to convince each other of their own perception of what an elephant is (or at least their portion of an elephant). Our elephant is, after all, far too immense for any one of us to fully understand or fully explain it to the rest of us. I am not convinced that the nations leaders from our founding on were ever fully guided by principles that Jesus would acknowledge as his own. Like many others, they picked and chose those that suited them and found ways to ignore the others. Watching "Liberty's Kids" with my son, we were able to see many examples, even in this simplistic exposition, of many of our Founding Fathers jealousy, greed, lack of trust, lack of 'Christian Charity' and racial and religious bigotry. It is well known that much of the Articles of Confederation and later the Constitution were inspired by the governance of the Iroquoi Confederacy. Did Christianity contribute, Of course. Were many of our founders Diests? of a certainty. Some were Jewish. Maryland had a religious war(!) before the Catholic Lord Calvert allowed the toleration of the Quaker settlers. Pennsylvania was at peace with all it's native population until the majority of the colonial legislature ceased to be Quaker and then Pennsylvania had every bit as much war as the rest of the colonies. Even Ben Franklin was questionable. As I think it was Winston Churchill who said that our system of government is far from perfect, but it is the best we've come up with. We are not perfect, tho we may strive for it. The important thing is being honest in our admission. I have to do some laundry. Been nice talking to you! TBC...

All the good ideas. I bet someone you know knows someone who has a brother in law whose cousin is a Ham radio operator. See if your Cubs can visit their operation. Look up REACT, both in the phone book and ask the local fire and rescue folks, they will know. REACT folks do disaster communication and often can come and set up at your location to demo international communications! Talk to a Ham in Peru or England! How cool would that be!

A couple of questions for them what can answer: 1) Was it BSA that "pulled the Charters" or was it the various organizations that resigned them? 2) Were there really any "Public Schools" sponsoring Scout units, or was it the PTAs and such? I can't see Thomas Jefferson Union Elementary School of Blahblah City sponsoring a Scout unit. The PTA could. And the leadership of that august group might have taken umbrage at the DRP. 3) Since BSA is a voluntary organization, and no one HAS to join, why is it so important that certain people WANT to join? Hypocracy not withstanding... Hello Pack.

The DRP as presently stated and used is contradicted by BSAs courting of Buddhist Scouts, Confuscian Scouts and others (those are just the ones I'm aware of). The promise that we ask Cubs and Boys Scouts to state, speaks of ones "duty to God". First, I would suggest that promising to do ones best here naturally makes the DRP unnecessary.I would then postulate that that duty is not mine to judge, but Gods. I would perhaps speak with the boy about how he sees his duty and how he might be striving to meet it, but it is not my duty to judge if he really is doing "his duty", only God can do that. His method of prayer (or not), his style of devotion (or lack of it), is between him, his family, his religious leaders (if any) and his rock,er, god. We are not talking about the boys duty to me, after all. Anyone watching the PBS special about the three big religions? As for the so called Pledge... When I do Scoutcraft at our CSDC, and we get to Flag Courtesy, I always ask the boys if they can think of a reason someone might not say the PoA? They mention "he might be a terrorist", "maybe he can't talk". RARELY has anyone mentioned the two main reasons: being of another nationality and having religious objections. I suggest to them they approach that person later and politely ask about it, they might have an interesting conversation. I have never had a listening adult comment about this. As a Friend (Quaker), I try to uphold Jesus' admonition to "swear not at all" and our faiths advice to "avoid judicial oaths and loyalty oaths" and avoid worship of "things "(idolotry)(this would include materialism. Another time...). So promising to be loyal to a piece of cloth is hard, we don't do it. This little denial of action we share with many other faiths, too. The Friend Scouts I know all learned the PoA, it is a requirement, and they recite it for the requirement, but not ceremonially. Now, as to athiests... I feel sad for them. But they are, in essence, doing what they see as their duty to God by CHOOSING NOT to believe in him/her/it. I see it simply as that. For BSA to REQUIRE a professed belief in a diety(s), makes it very hard to then say that BSA is non-discriminatory. By the way, Athiests have a church, if in all respects but name, in the various "Ethical Societies" around the country. Look'em up. (a worship of nogod. ummm...) Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer cherce. Now, as I mentioned in another thread, as a Chaplain at the Jamboree, one of my duties was talking to Scouts as they came to the "Relationship" tent. I met maybe 10 or 12 boys among the many others who had no professed faith and so I got to speak to them for them to earn their "DtG" rocker. With 30 other Chaps doing the same thing thru the week that calculates to about 300 Scouts without a faith. The ones I spoke to were 'not sure' about the God thing. Does that mean they should be ejected from our brotherhood outright? Not to my mind. YiS in spite of...

Ladeeeees and Geeeentlmen... The main event! In this corner, at mmnteinmte pounds, the judeo-Christian traditionalists... And in this corner, the all-inclusionists... And in THIS corner, the any-religion-see-the-dictionary-definitionists.... AND in THIS corner, the Baden-Powell Nature-as-religion-Practical-Christianityists... And in this other corner, various Scout masters and Cubmasters just trying to teach Scouting to boys while not being terribly interested in the boys personal beliefs... This will be 15 rounds, no holds bared. Logic, faith exposition, sacred text quotating and personal revelation will be allowed. Now, when you hear the bell, I want you to come to the center of the ring and ...oh heck, keep doing what ever it is you do. We'll sort it out eventually. And may the boys win...

12) " The business of America is business" =Calvin Cooledge= Is there still truth to this statement? TBC...

10) And when the Taliban came to power in Afghanistan, it was with the support of whom, as a counter to the Russian presence? And was there somewhere a mention of a proposed oil/gas pipeline ? 11) My memory may have some gaps, but when the French were reticent to give up their colony in Indochina, what happened to the elections mandated by the Geneva conference? TBC...