SSScout

"Aye, the OA Code... we were thinkin' it were more like guidelines, actual..." Just reupped my OA membership as an adult (no chronologic confusion in my case). Not having been actively involved in OA stuff for a long time (or as of yet), after hearing the above, I'd have to vote for consistancy. 18 years and one day makes an adult in court, in voting, in alcoholic beverage consumption, in BSA considerations, in YP considerations. Why not in OA membership? And we all know the decisions of this forum are final...ummmm.

Thank you, one and all. The training I had in Archery Range management was sufficient for what I did and served another purpose. I began to notice things with a critical eye. When I went to other Scout activities, I often found the archery target range was being "run" by folks that had never done so before (well meaning volunteers) who had been asked "could you do this, there isn't anyone else". And so they "did their best". But my training and experience made me gringe at what I saw. No real instruction (here's an arrow, here's a bow, there's the target, have fun). Little thought as to the range layout (back of the targets toward a walkway, no safety rope around the range, etc.) Even leaving the line up of Scouts to their Scouters ( no control as to how people enter or leave the range, who gets the arrows, ). An accident waiting to happen. Often, when I said I was a trained Range Officer, and could I help, the look of relief from the folks there was worth the price of admission, as they say. So my question about creating a badge to earn is not just for self aggrandisement, (buy the patch?), but seeking a way to recognize a very real accomplishment and an importantly needed person. Someone to help youngsters learn how to master a DANGEROUS skill SAFELY. Any of the so called shooting sports are possibilities for injury, yes? And (Scouting is famous for this) training helps lessen the possibilities of injury by making the LEADERS and SCOUTS aware of the POSSIBILITIES, and how to avoid them. So if I can become the person to train and encourage the Archery Guy, and I can give him/her a patch to attest to his/her ability/authority, I think that's good. "All Scout Leaders should be Trained" , I think I read that somewhere. My Council Program Director seems to be unaware of the Camp School part of my request. Perhaps that is where I should go to enlarge my scope of experience and abilities. I will call her today. E: Thanks again for your never failing encouragement. Be advised that we always give all our CSDC adult staffers a special "staff" tee shirt and camp patch. YiS yet

TtheM: Your Troop is truly in the stone age. (point out to them that the Stegasaurus Husbandry MB is no longer required for Pteronodon). DChs are derigeur in most Troops. "A Scout is Helpful". Some Troops even consider DChs a PoR. for advancement. A good DCh just eats up the Cub attention. Talk about admiration and big brother/hero worship! Den Chief and CSDC Scout Staffer are, indeed, two different things. DCs need to be (1) motivated to help Cubs and (2) encouraged by some Scouter. Age is not a consideration, only desire to help and learn. Take the official training that is offered, but "on the job" with a knowledgeable DL is often the best. If the nascent DCh sits around or 'bosses' the Cubs "because he can", then two things are true: first, the DL is taking too much of a hands off attitude and second, the DCh is taking too much for granted (and hasn't learned the Scout Law). CSDC needs "a few good Scouts". You can ask for volunteers thru R/T, at MB Days, thru the District newsletter, etc. Or ask the OA for staffing help. My Truly Significant Other happens to be CSDC Director, and she has established the standard that Youth Staffers MUST be First Class Scouts (age not a consideration). This owes from past experiences with Scouts we didn't know who were young and out for fun first and helping a poor second. Also, the county schools asked if they could send some teens to help us that needed "service hours". These youngsters were not terribly well motivated to be there, and needed ALOT of supervision with assigned tasks, where as the FC Scouts knew how to help. OA Scouts often don't even need to be told to help, they recognize the need and jump in to the fray themselves. District and Council have never failed to back up MTSO in her requirement. The CSDC has greatly benefitted thereby. YiS KiSMiF!

eaglepete: The best minds often run around in the same rutted circles. What can I say? but ultimately there's very little to laugh at if a boy is hurt thru someones ignorance or stubborness. Frinstance: eghiglie: I have often found that it is much easier to say no to a boy and make him understand the reasons than it is to say no to a parent and get them to ACCEPT the reasons. Would you agree? Often, maturity and responsibility come at a price. When I was a much younger Scout, I was given my grandfathers pocket knife. (Totin' Chip, yes) I used it carefully for more than a year. It presently lies under the leaves and dirt somewhere on the Appalachian Trail in Maryland, dropped from my hand after I thought it was in my pocket. I was really shook up by that loss. I became very much better at keeping track of my things after that. My step sons were given Scout "Camp King" knives when they turned 13. I can't count the number of times we found them out in the yard or under the couch. They handled the knives well, no injuries, but keeping them? When SS #1 went off to the army, I found his knife somewhere in the house and ended up giving it to son #3 for Christmas (age 12), with SS#1's blessing. Don't know where SS#2's knife is still. He's up in PA. with his pa. "to look sharp, and be sharp too, here's a razor ..." YiS on the edge...

History: four years ago, My Truly Significant Other finally admitted defeat and went to take Camp School. She has been the CSDC Director ever since, has a ball and is never without compliments for her efforts. So, that made me... whatever was needed. I have been the bugler, the Scoutcraft-Webelos-Map and Compass, campfire skit writer/director, watergames, helicopter pad director..... and when our Archery Range fellow broke his ankle, I jumped in and took the Archery Range Safety Officer training (with 3 days notice, two weeks before camp, no small distance away). I have been so tagged ever since and it's been a blast, lo these 2 years.... I have commanded archery ranges in CS camps, BS camparees, Troop overnights, Webelos Weekends, and Merit Badge Practices. Nary an errant arrow to my credit. Nary. Now, my Council Program Director has promised me that she will arrange for me to be trained and certified as a ARSO Trainer, so I can give of my experience. THEREFORE, (since there ain't no such thing, to my knowledge) I'd like to see how I might convince the-powers-that-be to issue a NEW BADGE::: "the RANGE SAFETY OFFICER" badge. I figure with some clever design, it could be inclusive, or maybe include a "rocker" for the various types::: BBs, Slingshot, Archery/Cubs, Archery/BS, .22 Rifle, Shotgun, (etc.?) Make it a Jacket Badge if not on the Uni. I think it could be a truly well earned badge. Boy, the badge collectors could have a field day earning all the rockers for over or under the roundel. So how do I go about getting something official established (and not just on the side)? YiS targeted... (This message has been edited by SSScout)

My truly significant other is CSDC Director, which usually makes me a little bit of everything else. I've always liked the idea of seperate Webelos activities, as much as possible, 'cause, yeah, the webs would prefer not to hang out with the lil' brother Tigers and Bears. But the above description of the Webs Only camp (sounds wonderful) makes me wonder: What did the Webs do before to fulfill all those requirements? How did the WDLs make it work? When I was a WDL, I had some fun arranging the SCientist pin stuff, but then I had an engineering background. We also went to museums and saw exhibits and such. Same with the other pins. A couple of saturdays in a neighbors garage, a couple of dads and handtools and whoosh we had some fine bird houses for Craftsman . I suppose the camp situation makes it easier and better for those Packs and Dens that would have a hard time otherwise, but like was mentioned, if they didn't come for the whole show, how can you say they fulfilled ALL the requirements? In our camp closing memo that we send back with the Cubs, we make it clear that 'these' activities would POSSIBLY fulfill 'these' requirements, but it was "Scout's Honor" whether the Cub participated and did everything listed, and the Pack leadership was encouraged to check with the Cub and their Den Walkers. Our Den Walkers were instructed to keep track of their own Cubs, if possible. Again, the secret is advance planning, alot of phone calling, and making the BScout helpers feel really useful and appreciated ( open archery range for the Scout helpers works for our CSDC too). YiS KiSMiF(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Since the "pirates Code" er, I mean the Cub Scout Guidelines are so vague on Whittlin' Chip requirements, here is what our Pack did. (best of my memory) Only Bear or Webelos may earn WC. The candidate Cubs were given a permission slip for their parents to consider. Yes or no. The day of the class, the Cubs were taught about different types of knives and how they should be handled (folding pocket knives only for Cubs, but other knives exhibited and discussed... cooking, clasp, lock back, fixed blade, etc.) How to sharpen a knife. How to look at the blade critically. "Listen for the sharp". Carborundum stone, steel, diamond hone. Opening and closing. (open handed) Passing a knife to another. (handle first, edge away from hand. "thank you") We talked about carrying the knife (never to school, only with parents permission. Never "show off", at Scout activity) We talked about LOSING the privilege. When we were satisfied they were serious about the "rules", we gave them a big bar of soap and we talked about carving (establish an arms length "Safety Zone", always away from yourself, be aware of those around you, push with your thumb, support your work). And we made animals, castles, cars, jetplanes of soap. and a mess. But the boys knew about knives and safety. YiS

Aye... Guidelines, is it? arrgh.... "...downed tree..." Doesn't mention how the tree came down, probably with good reason. My dad was a timber cruiser in WVA long before he met me(!). I learned alot from him as to safe felling and trimming and gained much experience in same after I obtained my majority. I would presume the PB Counselor (if that is the right term), would guide the Scout thru obtaining proper permission as to which tree to cut (Park Rangers, property owner, etc.), the safe technigues of trimming and cutting. If a tree needs to be felled, the same applies as to permission and safe technigue. The PB award is, after all, a recognition of the learning and demonstration of knowledge, skill and safe technigue, just like the TChip. The earning of the First Aid MBV does not qualify the Scout as a Paramedic. After the TC and PB, if he perseveres, he might someday become a high topper. Get the Scout a pair of climbing spikes for Christmas (just kidding). YiS.

Thanks, gahs. I also heard the tailend of his show. Thanks for finding the link. Did anyone else see the insert in the Washington Post about the 100th anniversary of Scouting? (sunday, 28 January) I can't get it to show on the wash post web site.

"Remember, you are just an extra in everyone else's play". = = Stewart Emery = =

Bobcat, wolf, bear, lion, webelos. Long time ago, been there done that. The progression almost made sense. Size and impression. Even made sense from the Jungle Book viewpoint. But like I mentioned in the earlier thread, how can you justify the Lion as the first step and the Bear as the last? Now, we have Tiger Cub, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Web. You're putting Lion in front of Tiger Cub ? Even a 1st grader is going to see a problem with that, I'd guess. I'm not familiar with the Learning for Life program, but I've detected a certain, er, stress among the posters here about it. Is there, perhaps, a section in National Council that must justify its existance by creating new programs whether the old programs are in need of revision or not?

Never been to Philmont. Always thought it would be neat to go sometime. In my far distant youth, my Troop went to Phil more than once (less crowded then, I guess. I opted for other adventures. The older Scouts that went the first time brought back all the excellent tips for equipment (M4 surplus plywood pack boards, aluminum canteens, folding cook kits, all purpose plastic home-made tarp tents, nylon parachute cord rope,etc.) and methods (bolt your Yucca pack to the packboard thereby avoiding having to use the Diamond Hitch, multi use hiking staffs, foam pads instead of heavy airmattress) that we all immediately emulated. The Troop became known as the black plastic tarp tent Troop. Hey, infinitely adaptable, super light weight, when they have outlived their purpose, use 'em for ground cloth! 10' by 10',special duct tape around the edges and grommets set in the edges and corner and a reinforced center hole. I found out (as my son has) that that big 5 D cell flash light is sure bright, but on the trail you can carry TWO AA lights (a spare is nice) or a headlight and a hand hold for much less weight and space. Make sure he considers not what he'd like to have along, but what he really might need. If he's the fellow with the small roll of duct tape or extra shoe lace to help his buddy with, he could be a very popular fellow. My sons Troop is # umpty ump on the Phil wait list, so they are considering a self outfitted trip to the Boundary Waters area. Canoes paddle blisters instead of heels? Have Fun! YiS

Neckerchiefs... Not too many Scouters around here wear'em. Some Troops opt to NOT wear'em. Troop of my youth had a custom design ("Always on the Go!"), and it was the BIG version. I agree that the SMALL version looks less appropriate on an adult or a large Scout. And one really can't do too many of the assumed uses too easily with the SMALL version. Signaling? You folks do Signaling? No longer a REQUIREMENT on any but the Signaling merit badge. You teach a non-requirement? Do the boys enjoy it? omygod.....

Neckerchiefs... Not too many Scouters around here wear'em. Some Troops opt to NOT wear'em. Troop of my youth had a custom design ("Always on the Go!"), and it was the BIG version. I agree that the SMALL version looks less appropriate on an adult or a large Scout. And one really can't do too many of the assumed uses too easily with the SMALL version. Signaling? You folks do Signaling? No longer a REQUIREMENT on any but the Signaling merit badge. You teach a non-requirement? Do the boys enjoy it? omygod.....

Pine wood derby... Our District has a couple of Troops that keep really fine, "professional" tracks , timers, stands, posters and flags etc which they "rent" out to the Packs as a service. The "starter" of one is really good, lots of patter, talks up the quality of the car and the Cub. "START YOUR ROUTERS!!!" etc. We always had a "Cub" league ('On Your Honor', the Cub did MOST of the work...)and an "Adult-Unlimited" league, and an "EE" league (everybody else. Siblings, guests, etc). The District enforced the Package rules, and the various Packs knew it in advance. Good recruitment tool.... Our Pack had a roughed out wood track that we brought to PTA picnics, and verily the draw of boys was great... A lot of fun. Google for lots of hints and tips. YiS

The original question here concerned the physical fitness requirement of Webelos being acceptable also for the TF rank. The discussion has (as is often the case here, ain't it wonderful?) roiled into subbing one earned requirement for the next ranks requirement. #1. The Webelos who crosses over into Boy Scouts, by present requirements, must first EARN the Scout badge. If his Web leaders were worth their salt, this should be a breeze. One SM conference should do it. Then, ... #2. After two months, if they are sharp, the nascent BS can be awarded the TF badge, if he has EARNED it. Again, if his Web leaders were on the ball, this should also be a breeze. His Troop leaders (SM, ASMs, PL,etc. ) should have all the opportunities available to make it possible. But the Web pins should not be used as evidence that the TF requirements HAVE been done. Frinstance, the physical fitness reqmnt asks that the Scout "show improvement" over a 30 day period. This CANNOT be the same 30 day period that was done back when he was a Web. (didn't we discuss rank requirement "adjustments" before?) How can a BS who has a TF badge that was "expressed" thru the rank be compared to one that has not? The same arguments are made elsewhere in these forums. #3. I know of a Troop that , when the boy has his TF (and to my knowledge, there are no shortcuts here with them), they then teach the First Aid Merit Badge ( the instructor is an emergency room physician) to them and use THAT certification for the Second Class requirement also. Comes First Class, the requirements are reviewed, but since the boy already has the FA MB, he is expected to be ready for the review. It is not automatic. Is a 12 year old SC Scout an authority in First Aid? #4. Back when I was a fledgling Scout, one was not allowed to earn MBs until one had the FC badge. So it was a cumulative thing. Fexample, The SC first aid led to the FC first aid and the FA MB built on the knowledge (neckerchief tourniquets?) garnered in the time spent practicing for the first three ranks. There was also a time restriction. You HAD to wait three months for each of your ranks. One could not do ALL the requirements and be awarded the first three ranks at the first CoH that came along. (I've seen this happen of late. Is it right? I'm not sure I like the idea.) #5. So over all, I am NOT in favor of expressing a Scout thru his ranks. The practice, the teaching of skills to younger Scouts, are all part of the METHOD. It is good for SC Scouts to teach TF candidates. Let the nascent AoL Scout show his proficiency to his SM for the Scout badge, and then move on... YiS

Tandems are a serious sub culture in the World of Cycling. There are races, clubs, time trials, magazines devoted to Tandems. Just as with single seats, one can be as frugal or as profligate as one wishes. $300 or $30,000 ("nicely equipped", as the auto ads say). Unfortunately I am far removed from my bicycling days, rich and varied as they were. I'll not bore you with those details. But after reviewing the Cycling MB requirements, I see no reason why a Tandem could not be used to fulfill it. Certainly a pair of adult leaders could participate in a Scout ride on one. Perhaps it would be appropriate to require the two Scouts on a Tandem to trade positions so they could demonstrate their skill both as "stoker" (rear) and as "captain" (front). And believe me, the two positions do need different skills. Maintenance requirements are the same, perhaps even more rigorous for the slightly more complex mechanism. Trip planning requirements would be the same. So go for it! YiS Willy Nelson* and Gene Autry** *on the road again... ** back in the saddle again(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Wow, the luxury of having a seperate RT Commish for Cubs and Boys (note the distinction: I feel all of them younguns are SCOUTS. We have Cubs and Boys)> We have ONE RTCm and then we divide up as possible for our seperate discussions. Our District is in the throes of reorganizing and rebuilding the interconnection between units. I would counsel the following: Make sure you have an accurate District Roster of Units and Leaders. This should include the District Leadership at the front, for all to contact as desired. Then include Unit number, CO, where they meet and when, CCh, CM, SM,phone numbers, addresses, (shudder) emails?. If this information is not collected, you can't use it. If you have it, you have no excuse not to use it. Introduce yourself to as many of your constituency as you can. Call and INVITE folks to come to RT. This roster should be in the hands of all the District folks, and (why not?) every Cub, Boy and Ventuer leader. Encourage cooperation, inter-unit activities (esp. small units). Find out what they might like to see/hear at RT. Make the time fun, useful and worthwhile (or mirthwhile, as one RT commish once said to me). (don't forget the ribs and slaw). Programs::: Make a calender and ask folks to sign up to lead a night. Could be about the monthly theme, or not. Once upon a time, the Cub theme was "Circus of the Stars". Fellow signed up for it, and instead of Circus acts, he taught Astronomy! Marvelous! KIS MIF YiS K-ingIS&F(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Robvio:::Hey, and add my welcome to all the rest. What they said, and here's my nickles worth (inflation): Don't just say to the TC: "hey, I need..." but say to SOMEONE:: "Jack, could you help me with..." or "Betty, would you know how to..." I find asking PEOPLE will gain the help, but just ASKING often doesn't. Good Scouting to you. YiS asking away

Howdy Boothil, greetings from the right coast. 50degrees here, soon to be 20 this weekend, sez the tv weatherman. You have four main tasks ahead of you (personal exp.) 1) Get together with some likeminded boys and adults and plan out one or two easy trips as examples.Check with local parks people. Local trails, parks, etc. Ask the local District DE or Camp chair for suggestions. One or two miles in, camp, one or two miles out. 2) Convince the Troop Committee (I hope you already have the agreement of the SM!!) that your rut is getting uncomfortable. Too much car camping can make a Troop sick if not lead to a slow death. 3) Your SM takes the plans to the PLC and gains their agreement. Schedule a trip in the spring, another a month later, a little longer perhaps.. Here, the "older boys" get the chance to teach camp skills. Troop meetings can be planned around First Class skills (all of which are camp related, yes? ) and the Patrols encouraged to work together to camp, cook, share the load as a PATROL. 4) The SM and you must give the SPL the responsibility and back him up in all this. Communication is the key. Nothing happens with out calling, asking, assigning, following up. Your SPL and his ASPLs and PLC will rise to the occasion, given the chance. Good Scouting to you! YiS

Yep, what they said. The boy is father to the man. He will be what he has been. He is a Scout, to be sure, but he is not only a Scout. Let him proudly show what he has accomplished, even as a boy. As your boy looks over his shoulder to see where he's come from, remind him to not get a kink in his neck from dwelling on the past and not paying attention to his next possibilities. Congratulations, Scout. You done good. Congratulations, mom. You done good, too. YiS

I wouldn't call it 'reatricting', necessarily. Put unofficially, my take on Scout badges (Tiger on up...) is that their earning is intended to 1)encourage the trying of new activities 2) reinforce good, healthy behavior 3) encourage the attainment of life enhancing (even survival) skills and 4) help boost the boys self-esteem. Especially in Cubs (but also in BS) often one is encouraging the adult in the above categories, too. The parent often learns along with the boy. If one learns how to ride the Public Transit System, all of the above categories have been fulfilled. If you then ride the PTS everyday (to work, to school, etc.), yeah, you can say you are fulfilling those categories again and again, but not for the first time. We don't award the First Class badge every time a boy cooks over a campfire and comes home safe from a 7 mile hike in the woods, just when he shows the first time that he can do it safely. Perhaps the "Gold Star" on the fridge routine could be suggested for safely coming home each day on the school bus or sitting down with dad to hear a story. I know some younguns that enjoyed that sort of positive reinforcement to help them to concentrate on what needed to be done. A gold star earned for one occasion, so many (?7?10?20?) earns a movie night or some other reward, just not another bead! Lordy, how you gonna walk with all those beads dragging on the floor? Trips up a fellas feet, it does. YiS Beads and all.

"It's what we do" Yes. I like that.

Boy, these forums do bring jog the memory. (Theres a topic... forms of exercise... memory jogging, down alist running, but I digress) I remember when my folks and I were filling out the Eagle applications that there was a request for "letters of reference" from a number (3?) of non-Scout people that could vouch for the applicants "character, citizenship and worth" as I remember. This reference stuff was new to me. Perhaps it was only Council required, I don't know. But there was included a form letter to send to the requested referencers. Who to ask? School counselor? Teacher? Camp counselor from a non scout camp? Clergyman? Family friend? Coach? Past employer? I think one of them was Mr. Vonessen, my school Counselor. I really don't remember who we asked. I suppose sometime in the not so distant future, I may be asked to serve in some capacity about an Eagle applicants application (TBOR? DBOR? Advisor? DAC? My sons application? Hasn't happened yet...) so then I'll have to think about whether Reference Letters are "required" or not NOW. I can only testify to some dimly remembered past... Perhaps once upon a time, there was a "requirement", but it has been TWEAKED to a phone call, or a email, or a suggestion...

"OOOH NO MR. BILL!" "Spoonerism: a transposition usually initial sounds of two or more words, thus: '...he quoted a white horse souse...' for 'white house source'. hoobert heever... ?sister mouse matter?