SR540Beaver

How do you justify not giving someone their flap after they have done their Ordeal? Once they have done their Ordeal, they are an Arrowman. While we want Arrowmen to support their Lodge, their first duty is to their unit. Also, the sash is not intended to be worn at all events. I don't mean to criticize what you are doing, I just fail to understand how those actions result in increased involvement. I'll be interested in other folks responses as this is a subject near and dear to my heart. Our Lodge needs a shot in the arm.

This is the last Jambo at Fort AP Hill. One of the added benefits of having it there is its close proximity to Washington DC and getting to tour there. That however is one of the major factors that drives the cost up. I'm hoping that the future location will be somewhere closer to the middle of the US with a cooler and drier climate like Colorado and participants come just to experience the Jambo. If costs continue to climb at the rate they have in the last 5 years, it will become out of reach of many scouts.

Talk radio has been beating Obama like a red headed step child for over a year now. Over the next four years, they'll make the Bush hate look like a walk in the park.

TheScout, It is kind of sad and amusing that many of the folks who pushed and supported the neo-con agenda and supported Bush have now abandoned him. Even the RNC has declared their own President a socialist. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/30/rnc-pushes-unprecedented-criticism-of-bailouts/

Hear hear! Life is good. Happy New Year Eamonn!!!

No on the fundraiser aspect. At the Last Frontier Council here in Oklahoma, the cost in 2005 was $1900. I attended as an ASM for one of our three council contingent troops. Every penny goes into the costs of the Jamboree, from the actual cost of Jambo to flights, DC tour buses, hotels and restaurants while touring to footlockers, day packs, duffle bags, water bottles, etc. That was the same cost as the 2001 Jambo for our council and we squeezed every penny we could to keep the cost the same from 2001 to 2005. With 2010, the cost has gone to $3000 in our council. The council will not keep a dime of that money. Because the cost has jumped so high, I chose not to throw my hat in the ring for serving as adult leader this time since my son was going again. In our council, the participants are required to have three complete uniforms which adds an additional cost over the $3000.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Change is enevitable. When I was a kid, we had a big black and white console TV with 4 channels that went off at midnight and I got to be the channel changer. Today I have a 48 inch HD flat screen with well over 100 channels 24 hours a day and can record and play back any show I want on a hard drive. Mom used to cook every meal from fresh ingredients on a stove. Going to a restaurant was a couple of times a year treat. Now frozen foods, microwave meals, delivery, carry out and multiple trips to eateries per week is the norm. People used to dress in their finest clothes and go to a house of worship and show reverence toward their God. Today many churches have laser lights, smoke, rock band music and people attend in their shorts and t-shirts while drinking a Starbucks and watching their "worship leader" on a big screen at a satellite location. The list is endless. Times change. Society changes. Organizations change to stay relevant to the times and society. If not, they become footnotes in history. Do I like it? No. But that is the fact of the matter whether I like it or not.

Bryan, Yes, I run into "early" scouts frequently. I work with our new scout patrol in our troop. We had 24 new scouts in 2006, 20 in 2007 and 16 this year. So I've experienced just about every condition there is from boy's with eager parents wanting them to cross ASAP to boys 13 years of age who have never been involved in scouts at any level. I won't try to discourage you, but I will tell you a few of my concerns about "early" scouts. My preference is to get new scouts who cross over in February as we design our program to begin in March. We get them throughout the year and will take them whenever they come, but it works best if we can have an organized program plan instead of backtracking for guys that come over in May, July or October for instance. Our troop goes to summer camp in June. Summer camp is a week long. For a boy crossing over in May, summer camp might be his first camping experience with the troop. He has not had time to find his place in the troop, is not used to being away from home and family for an extended time and has not had to be responsible for getting himself everywhere he needs to be while at camp. One option is to not go. That isn't a good option. The new scout programs that summer camps provide are extremely beneficial to a new scout. Those guys who come to our troop "early" in the fall are way behind the eight ball compared to their peers who came in in February. Crossing in February allows a boy to go on a number of campouts before summer camp and get accustomed to patrol and troop life and get some skills under his belt. Another concern is the maturity of the boy. Some kids do just fine while others just are not ready to be put into the Boy Scout environment yet. It helps if they move with their fellow Webelos instead of alone. You know your son and we don't. Only the two of you can make the call on whether or not to cross over "early". Something to keep in mind is that Boy Scouts runs thru a boy's 18th birthday. Crossing him at the absolute earliest time possible really isn't buying you anything as he has 7.5 years to be a scout.

Hmmmm, I guess you guys have not priced high school class rings this century have you?

Kudu, If all the units in my council followed the excellent example set at our 21st Century Wood Badge courses, they would have their patrols in different campsites spread across the whole camp.....because that is what we've done both weekends.

I've always wondered what was so magical about the 300 foot distance for a patrol site. Will the patrol method fail at 275? Is 290 OK? Is it that boys are too lazy to walk 300 feet and therefore will stay out of another patrol's site? If they are too lazy to walk 300 feet, how can we expect them to hike? Why is 300 the magical number?

RD, Here are a few of links to previous threads I found using the search feature. I'm sure there are more than these that I found since I limited my search to the equipment forum. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=6052 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=17816 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=84086 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=113655 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=88139

roguedawg, Welcome to the forums. Not to steal your thunder, but these kind of stoves are not new and have been discussed here before. If you like the stove, you'll love this site that provides instructions for many different DIY models. http://zenstoves.net/

Our troop has "class B" t-shirts and sweatshirts with the troop logo and unit number on them. Instead of wearing our uniform while doing our annula ringing of the bell next year, I'll suggest to the committee that the boys wear these. It won't give the BSA as a whole any exposure at a distance, but at least the public will know our unit is active in community service when they approach us.

I think I see the disconnect here for many people, including me. Our Troop and Crew ring the bell in full uniform for the Salvation Army each year. We do it as a service project....not as a fund raising project. Yes, we are raising funds for a worthy charity, but we are not raising funds for our units. It never entered anyone's mind ot fill out a fund raising form to do a service project for a charity. Therefore, the rules to not do so are out of sight, out of mind. I'm not excusing our actions, just explaining what I beleive is happening. I'm an ASM and not involved in the fund raising or service side of the committee. We have folks on the committee who handle those items. I will make them aware of it though.

I love getting to do this each year. HAPPY FESTIVUS TO THE REST OF US!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus http://www.festivusbook.com/

scottteng - "I think we should bring back boxing gloves, head gear and a ring and let the combatants have at for a few rounds." I always felt a physical strike was appropriate when it was my twin brother and we were kids living at home. So did he. My parents always threatened to buy us boxing gloves for Christmas!

Or the stupidity of public servants......like the El Reno, OK policemen who recently tasereddan uncooperative motorist before manhandling him and cuffing him. He was a diabetic with a blood glucose of 11. http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/1208/576608.html The same thing happened to my ex-brother-in-law some years back. His blood sugar got low in the middle of the night and he was uncooperative. His wife called 911 and paramedics were sent. Because he was so combative, they called the police. The police accused him of being on drugs and had him face down in the front yard with their knee in his back trying to handcuff him with his wife yelling at them the whole time that he was a diabetic with low blood sugar. In fact, this happened in the town right next to El Reno.

Ahhh, the memories of touring DC prior to the 2005 National Jamboree. Our council required us to wear full field uniform including neckerchief, web belt and hat while in DC. Every place we went we had to pull off our metal necker slides and remove our belt buckles before passing thru the metal detectors. Knives were not a problem as we flew and any knives had to be packed away in locked footlockers we didn't have access to until we arrived at Fort AP Hill. Then there was the pleasure of the death march at Jamboree to see the president where we kept getting differing stories on what we could and could not have with us. At one point, we could carry a single clear water bottle, but it would have to be emptied before getting inside. I have nothing but respect for the office of President and for our nation's capital, but man what a hassle it was in relation to scouting. All that being said, it will be cool bragging rights for your scouts to be able to say they participated in an inauguration.

Or Northerners when they get one of those 85 degree heat waves.

Yeah, why do the beavers always get blamed for everything?

keoki12, I too sympathize with what your son has been thru. Let me address a single item that I don't believe anyone else has specifically touched on. While your son is/was a Boy Scout with membership thru the council, he was also an "employee" of the council. Perhaps one shouldn't be tied to the other, but that may be the difference in this situation. While your son may have apologized to everyone all around and the troop and SM forgave him and kept him in the fold, the council evidently sees things different. Obviosuly one solution might simply be to never let him work for the council again, but continue on in his Scouting career. For whatever reason, they have extended their "punsihment" all the way thru to his scouting. My son served this past summer on camp staff. The rules were laid down in no uncertain terms and they knew upfront what was and was not a firing offense and the camp director is fair but tough. She has hundreds of scouts being sent to camp by parents who believe thier child is in a safe environment. If a staffer pulls some kind of stunt, it puts the whole camp safety and experience into question. While I might not agree with how the council is handling things, your son has learned a valuable experience. Actions have consequences. I preach this to my son everyday. So far so good. I've been fortunate in that he has never once gotten in trouble at school or any other activity he has participated in. He is a rules follower. He is almost 16, our SPL and only needs his project to make Eagle. He will be driving soon and has a girlfriend who is cute as a button and as sweet as can be. Having been a 16 year old boy a million years ago, I have redoubled my "actions have consequences" speeches to him since cars and girls have come on the scene. These are important life lessons as they enter adulthood and the workforce. In "real" life, they won't get the second chances and mulligans. Good luck.

We walk the boys thru the process from Tenderfoot thru 1st Class with them having to take more responsibility thru each step of that process. Once he makes it to 1st Class, he has no reason NOT to understand the advancement process and his future rank advancement is in his hands. That isn't to say that he might not receive an occasional friendly reminder, but ultimately Eagle is his responsibility.

We just offered E-Prep to the boys within the troop who wanted to do it. Some already had First Aid and some did not. We have an MBC who is offering First Aid to any who want it here in a few weeks. While it is preferable that someone taking E-Prep already have First Aid, it is not a prerequisite. Those who took E-Prep without having First Aid will be able to take First Aid and the E-Prep MBC will sign that requirment off when the finish First Aid.

I am against illegal secretaries and what they are doing to our country. A wall should be built to keep them out and any already here should be rounded up and sent back.