SR540Beaver

Eagle, I don't believe that to be entirely true. http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=6576 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winkler_v._Rumsfeld(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

I realize they are looking for a permanent home. If they were looking to another military installation, my choice would have been Fort Carson by Colorado Springs, a major metropolitan city that could handle the logistical and supply needs of a Jamboree. Just a hop, skip and a jump from Denver International Airport, just off of I-25 and right at the foot of the Rockies. In late July, the day time temps are in the low 90's and the nights are in the mid 60's with humidity around 50 to 60% and 0 precip. Now that is camping weather with beautiful scenery. It is darn near the geographical center of the nation to boot.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Tokala, I do believe that the overriding unspokem major criteria was closeness to DC. I think to keep from catching too much grief, they did not list that and was willing to entertain other ideas if something really outstanding came along. But I think DC is the trump card. To everyone else, Yes, you can look at it from a population center standpoint. Still, you have a lot of scouts coming from across the US as well as Alaska and Hawaii and you guys can't imagine the additional cost involved. While you guys might balk at the price, you'd have to swallow even harder if it cost you $1000 to $1500 more. Obviously there are always going to be folks who live closer to a Jambo site than others and their cost will be less, but a central location kind of evens out and lowers the cost for the majority of folks wanting to attend.

Hmmmm, I can't say I'm surprised.....but I am disappointed for personal reasons. I would prefer that the Jamboree be more centrally located in a little cooler and/or drier climate. The heat and humidity is stifling in Virginia in late July. I think the greatest deciding factor is the proxemity to Washingtom DC. It is the DC touring that really cranks up the price of Jamboree and puts it out of reach for many boys. In 2005, our cost was $1900 with 5 days of touring. In 2010 it will cost $3000. Touring DC has becomee the extra added "value" of Jambo that didn't exist when it was held at different locations around the country. Don't get me wrong, I love DC. I've been there three times now. But I have my doubts that anywhere other than the DC area had an ice cubes chance of being chosen.

Frank, Congrats. I have served on WB staff with many of the folks who will be staffing SR940, one of which is my best scouting friend. You have a crackerjack staff and will have a great course.

I tried to turn it around Stosh, but the responses kind of proved my point.

SeaGull99, Welcome to the forums. As you have seen, we occasionally have a curmudgeon or two who dislike the BSA and take any opportunity to disparage it. I agree with some of the other posters here about having a friendly discussion with the SM and/or CC and ask for an explanation. Actually, I would encourage your son to do this first as it is his advancement. If they give him an unacceptable answer, then perhaps it is time for you to step in. My son is SPL and he and his ASPL just conducted the TLT this past weekend. It too is "required" for those who have been elected or assigned to a leadership position. It is required with the caveat that you need to provide a "good" reason if you can't be there. One boy was involved in a wrestling tournament for school and two others were sick. That in no way will be held against them for advancement purposes. TLT is for the purpose of training boy leaders to fulfill their job role, not for advancement. A boy can request an SM Conference at any time for any reason and an SM can too. Same with a BOR. They are not just for advamcement. The only valid reason to not do an advancement SM Conference is if the boy has not fulfilled all the necessary requirments.......of which attending TLT is not one. The SM and CC are off base in denying his request and they need to explain their reasoning. It can not be supported thru any actual BSA policies or procedures.

eisley, I think Leahy's notion is silly. Just as silly as the premeditated and concerted 8 year effort by the opposition to unseat Bill Clinton at any and all cost. We reap what we sow and the cycle continues. It is politics as usual and there are dirty hands on both sides.

Tokala, True, one Beaver would equal all the staff and the 7 other patrols of 6. Perhaps national should make it a requirement that all WB Course Directors must come from the Beaver patrol. Oh and jet526, congrats on signing up. Regardless of what you will hear from one or two naysayers, you will gain much from the course and have a blast doing it. If you are lucky, you will be a Beaver.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

I can't speak for Bob, but he has taken time off before. Love him or hate him, Bob simply tries to provide accurate information based on the materials the BSA produces. Many people like to make it up as they go and reinvent the wheel in the belief that they know better. Said people give him a lot of grief for his efforts and I think it gets old and he takes time off. I imagine we will see him down the trail.

Barry, I'm glad they missed you and yours THIS time. All I got was some pea sized hail and rain on the south side as everything was skirting off to the west by Camp Kickapoo before tacking east and hammering the north side of town. My nephew's car got pounded by golfball and baseball sized hail in Yukon. He sent pictures with holes punched thru his windshield and the car looking like someone took a baseball bat to it. Weather in Oklahoma is always interesting. Hey, maybe the burn ban will be lifted before our wilderness survival campout two weeks from now!

While a lot of places around the US like to use the saying, "if you don't like the weather in XXX, just wait five minutes and it'll change" it really applies to Oklahoma. Here it is February 10th (the ice finally melted out of my frontyard a couple of days ago) and we are having tornados on the ground with damage this afternoon. Some of them are up Eagledad's way. Hope all is well with him.

Tokala, If you have no Beavers to lead, the rest of the critters will just wander around aimlessly. Sad but true.

scoutldr, I'm not the one who said their NSP does not participate in the camporee, but ours doesn't either. While we seem to get new scouts thru the whole year, we get the bulk in February and March. Our district for some reason has always done the camporee in March. For most of the NSP, this is their first campout with the troop and they are learning how to set up our patrol tents and patrol site along with a lot of other things. Many are just meeting for the first time and they are in no way ready to compete with the big dogs. Finally this year, we convinced the district that the logical thing to do was swap the spring Camporee with the fall Webelos Woods. This at least gives the NSP half a fighting chance to get some skills under their belt prior to Camporee. In fact, they will most likely already be moved to a regular patrol by that time.

wmjivey, Beavers are FIRST in WB order for a reason. They are a superior critter to all others!

Our unit draws the line at lawyers. Just kidding. We have several attorneys and one Supreme Court Justice.

I have found it amusing that the pundits and politicians who scoffed at the notion that paying taxes was patriotic and who are always rebelling against taxes are now so aghast at folks who have not paid their taxes. Nobody does faux outrage like the beltway bunch....both sides included.

It is my firm belief that a junior staffer working for peanuts culls any and all communications and sends out the appropriate form letter. It is also my firm belief that any time a Congress critter actually sees something a constituent wrote, it is an accident on the part of his staff who is supposed to cull the communication and send form letters. The exception to these rules is during election time when they need touching stories about how they are looking out for their homies.

E, I believe what Gern meant was that the SM is too busy doing his job to have to mess with keeping up with every new Eagle policy myth that the district advancement folks come up with. In other words, his time is better spent being an SM and letting an Eagle Advisor wrestle with the ever changing expectations that some district Eagle folks make up for boys to do like hop on their right foot, spinning around while patting their heads and singing Follow Me Boys during the EBOR.

Undoubtedly, the Democrats are acting like idiots on pork barrel spending since regaining the majority. There is however a lot of revisionist history going on right now in talk radio trying to lay our current problems at the feet of Congress with the 2006 loss of Republican majority and ascendance of Democrat majority. The Libertarian think tank, CATO Institute has a very interesting paper called "The Republican Spending Expolsion" that is worth reading or at least scanning. The folks who are screaming the loudest in Congress right now were the same people who were spending like drunken sailors over the last decade. It is a case of do as I say, not as I do. Both sides paly the same game depending on who is in majority or minority at the time. Pork is how they get relelcted and remain in power which seems to be the object of the game for both sides.....regardless of what they claim. Both sides have dirty hands. Obama seems to want to try to transcend the politics of the whole mess and do something to help the American people. He at least has made the effort to actually go see the Republicans and listen to them as well as tell the Democrats to take items out of the bill. Obama can't make Congress do anything. What he can do is veto the bill if he doesn't like it. Here is hoping that he understands the purpose and power of the veto as opposed to his predecessor who presided over the greatest government spending spree and expansion in the history of the world. Will Obama do the right thing? Don't know, it remains to be seen. Assuming at this point is a waste of time. The article is here. http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp87.pdf

Gern, Your dogs will enjoy the company! Mine is in a decorative tin on the shelf by the fireplace in the living room. He weighed 155 lbs and was a tad too big to bury in the hard red clay in the backyard.

My company froze increases last year. It appears they will do the same this year. So I'm operating in 2009 on a 2007 salary which only saw a 1% increase over 2006. My wife works for one of those banks you've been hearing about in the news. Increases frozen there as well. She does project work and puts in about 60 hours per week (salary based on a 40 hour week), is on call 24/7/365 and has to travel the country. She usually gets a really nice bonus each year end. Her bonus this time was about a third of previous years. Her bank has already gone thru one round of layoffs and are announcing more this week. We are kind of holding our breath to see if she still has a job.....which is pretty important as she makes more than me. Our neighbor across the street is losing his job. One of our committee members just lost his job. The good news, mortgage rates dropped and I refinanced a couple of weeks ago from a 6% to a 4.75% rate and dropped my payments by $225. My 2004 truck will be paid off in June and that frees up another $400 per month. Those savings will be put away for little Beaver's college.

jblake47, Sorry, but I don't understand what you just said. Let's say you have a mixed age patrol. In the patrol, you have a 16 year old Life scout with a job who can't fulfill the responsibilites of a PL. You also have a 13 year old 2nd Class who can. The boy-led patrol elects the 2nd Class scout. What is the issue? If you meddle in this arrangement, you are adult leading the process.

jblake47, No. A 13 year old 1st Class scout PL wouldn't know the first thing about the Life to Eagle process that a 16 year old Life scout is involved in. The only possibility might be if the PL himself is already an Eagle scout and he has a patrol member approaching Eagle. The role of an Eagle Advisor is filled by a person who is familar with the process and can give the boy guidance if and when needed. Typically, an Eagle Advisor is an experienced adult who has served on district/council EBOR's and understands the process from beginning to end. Since scoutings inception, adults have always played a role. Boy-led doesn't mean adult exclusion or absence in all regards. Boy-led is different from troop to troop and is totally dependent on the level or maturity and expertise within the group. A troop of eight 11 year olds like one I helped start a few years back is not going to function at the same level of a 45 year old troop of 60 like I serve today. Yet both were boy-led based on what they were capable of at the time. Very often, the one constant in a troop is the adults as boys continually crossover and age out.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Having served on WB staff as a Troop Guide, I will tell you what we and the Course Director tell the participants. Tell us where and when and we will be there. I've seen them at Pack Meetings, COH's, Roundtables, summer camp campfire programs, Camporees, IOLS courses, etc. I've seen them take less than 5 minutes and I've seen them last 30 minutes. Mine was done during the teaching session on campfires at an IOLS course. One of the reasons that WB folks like to do it at places like this is because it promotes WB to a target audience. Mine was pretty cool. I was beaded along with 5 or 6 other people. It was in the fall when the air was crisp and the leaves were off the trees. The IOLS staff led the participants and us guests on a short night hike into a clearing in the woods. In the clearing were 3 fires burning. The visual image of the fire light on the bare tree limbs in the dark was breathtaking. The WB folks who "officiated" the ceremony were stationed at different points in the bush just outside of the fire light were they recited their portion of the ceremony. Not because it was my beading, but it was the coolest and most impressive beading ceremony I've seen so far.