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Everything posted by SR540Beaver

  1. SR540Beaver

    OA to end AoL ceremonies?

    So you're going to use the, "if a patrol wants to go play laser tag as a bunch of friends in street clothes, then it isn't Scouts going against the G2SS" defense even when the patrol planned it at a meeting? OA ceremonialists need to do the honorable thing and follow the national rules rather than go rogue.
  2. SR540Beaver

    OA to end AoL ceremonies?

    I am a Lodge Adviser. In the past, there were four official OA ceremonies that must be conducted as written. These were the Pre-Ordeal, Ordeal, Brotherhood and Vigil. Crossovers, AOL and callout ceremonies were homegrown affairs. There is now an officially recognized crossover/AOL ceremony. It and only it is to be used for crossover/AOL ceremonies. It is done without regalia and has a backpacking journey theme to it to recognize the Cubs journey to Boy Scouting. It is done in uniform with backpacks, compasses, etc. as props. All Lodges are required to use this ceremony or don't do them at all. Those are your options. The future of regalia in the other ceremonies is an open question. My personal opinion is that with our ever increasing politically correct environment and concerns over cultural appropriation, we may end up having to give it up someday. My other observation is that with the coming of girls to the OA in 2019, how do we handle regalia? If there are Native American nations out there who question our use of regalia, how will they feel when girls put on male regalia as the mighty chief to perform a ceremony. Will that not only be cultural appropriation or a "perversion" on top of appropriation? Time will tell.
  3. SR540Beaver

    Personal Management MB

    Sorry, I posted that 7 years ago. The SM is long gone as is my son and I from the troop.
  4. SR540Beaver

    OA member as youth

    Let me add, that when we have former members from our Lodge looking to join elsewhere and we don’t have records, we suggest they try this same approach and I’ve yet to have one tell me they were refused.
  5. SR540Beaver

    OA member as youth

    Once an Arrowman, always an Arrowman. I serve as a Lodge Adviser and we get folks moving into our area or their son has been elected and we get this question a lot. If your previous Lodge doesn’t have records from that far back, we work off of the point of the law that a Acout is trustworthy. If you tell us you were in the OA, we will take you at your word. We do ask that you do the best you can to provide the date of your induction and Brotherhood and/or Vigil. We will add you to our roster after you pay the current year dues. We welcome “lapsed” Arrowman back I to the Brotherhood.
  6. SR540Beaver

    Tap Out Question

    Not being in OA and only being involved as an ASM for that past year, I have a question about the sequence of events concerning OA. Our election was held at the end of November. The Tap Out occurs at Camporee in April. Our one boy (new troop) who was eligible for the election was elected. He did Ordeal this past weekend and was recognized at the COH this week. What specifically is the purpose of Tap Out? Isn't it where those who were elected get Tapped Out and later complete Ordeal? Can you do Ordeal before being Tapped Out. I'm not trying to accuse anyone in the troop of doing anything wrong.....simply because I don't know how it is supposed to work. If anyone can educate me, it would be appreciated.
  7. SR540Beaver

    Tap Out Question

    The “tap out” is optional. It is not an official ceremony of the OA like Ordeal or Brotherhood. Many Lodges do different things depending on size. Some Lodges do a Lodge wide call out, others do it by chapter and yet others have no ceremony at all. If they were elected, they are eligible to complete their Ordeal. I didnt stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I am a Lodge Adviser.
  8. SR540Beaver

    Resistance to OA

    Adult troop leaders, if you don't allow OA elections at the top end of the scale to not supporting or encouraging participation on the low end of the scale, why? I'm our current Lodge Adviser and this is the perennial issue across the land. I just want to hear the objections and also what might entice you to entertain this portion of the Scouting program.
  9. SR540Beaver

    Order of the Arrow for Females?

    I don't believe you will see Venturing girls in OA. While Venturing is a BSA program, it stands alone from Boy Scouts or future Girl Scouts. The OA is a program element of Scouting, not Venturing. Time will tell though if they change that. I will note that boys in Crews who are not dual registered in a Troop are not eligible for the OA either as they can't meet the requirements. The OA only holds elections in Troops and Teams.
  10. SR540Beaver

    Order of the Arrow for Females?

    I'm our current Lodge Adviser. That doesn't mean I know anything of what the future holds. But if I were a betting man, I'd guess that we will see OA elections in Girl troops in 2020. Just a feeling.
  11. SR540Beaver

    Resistance to OA

    Well Fred, a lot of that starts with unit leaders actually letting a team in to tell your youth about what the OA offers. Then it helps to have adult leaders who become members, are active and provide transportation for Arrowman to OA events. It helps to have the SM be one of those people. Having a youth and adult OA Rep within the troop who attend Chapter meetings and brings back info to the unit. The troop leadership needs to view the OA as a natural extension of a great Scout program rather than an interruption or competitor. They need to understand the leadership training and opportunities provided. A Scout can be the national OA Chief. A position that represents all Scouts nationally. Below that are region, section, lodge and chapter positions. OA provides the cheapest way for a Scout to attend the high adventure bases thru the trail crew program. Spend a week building trail and then get to help design a custom week long trip. The OA is big in show production. Those great shows at things like Jamboree and NOAC, all OA. They provide service to the Jamboree, other events and conservation work to wilderness areas of the nation. But back home, they do elections and ceremonies and provide service to camps. All they ask is to be able to visit your troop and introduce a world of enhanced scouting to your boys. But many troops just say no, we don't do OA. https://oa-bsa.org/pages/content/a-day-in-the-life-on-operation-arrow-staff https://oa-bsa.org/pages/content/oa-hackathon https://oa-bsa.org/pages/content/oa-facilitates-journal-program-with-national-geographic-explorer-paul-salop https://adventure.oa-bsa.org/
  12. SR540Beaver

    Girl Scouts letter to BSA

    I was a Cub Scout in the early to mid 60's and we did crafts, go see it's and no camping. The only difference was that we wore our uniforms to school and walked to the den mother' house immediately after school.
  13. SR540Beaver

    Youth Behavior at 2017 Jamboree

    Scouting is like church. There is a saying amongst some Christians that a follower isn't perfect, just forgiven. We like to think a Scout has reached a level of perfection and would never do anything wrong. People are people and they will at times disappoint you. I was an ASM for the 2005 and 2010 Jambos at AP Hill. We required the youth to keep their footlockers locked and always left two adults in camp during the day for security. There were youth there who would look for empty campsites and help themselves. Sad but true. In 2010, our sub camp had very nice big rig trailers that were set up with stainless steel showers. They had even contracted with a group who cleaned them thru the day. That was until some kids decided to take bowel movements in the shower stalls and the cleaning crew said they were done. The showers were locked. Fortunately, the boys in our contingent......who valued showers.....went to the sub camp leadership and asked for cleaning supplies and suggested having shower monitors present to get the showers reopened. It worked. That's the kind of behavior you wouldn't expect from a Scout, but when you have 40,000 parents plunk down the cash to send junior to the Jamboree, the odds are you will get some bad apples in the mix. There are plenty of lessons to be learned when these types of issues come up.
  14. SR540Beaver

    Youth Required to Take YPT?

    Nothing new at all. I was an NYLT course director back in 2012 and we did Venturing YPT for the staff. As best I recall, YPT was a requirement. Why would you put kids in a position of responsibility on camp or trading staff and not require it? You are just setting the youth and yourself up for problems in the event something happens.
  15. SR540Beaver

    FSK of 470 Chapter Ordeal This Weekend

    Just curious why you did Ordeal in a national park instead of your Scout camp where you could provide service to your camp? Also, do you run into any issues with the general public interfering in your activities?
  16. SR540Beaver


    Provide opportunities at the council, regional and national level. Our lodge chief and adviser sit on the council board. The chief does a state of scouting address each year to the state legislature. We've had boys in the last few years be elected to section and regional leadership positions. A good number have become trail crew foreman at Philmont and Northern Tier. One young man from our lodge runs the entire Philmont trail crew operation. All opportunities that they would never have at the troop level.
  17. SR540Beaver

    Gates Quote From The 2014 National Annual Meeting

    Stephenson runs AT&T. Companies like his give into activists all the time whether they believe in their agenda or not because it is a PR nightmare if they don't jump on the bandwagon. If Stephenson became president, any "anti" gay decision would be carried over to his business where he has fiduciary responsibilities. He may be the CEO, but the board and stockholders would force him to make decisions that would spare them and their profit and not have their name in the media in a negative light. Activists are not happy with local option. He would be pressured to do away with it and he might do it to protect AT&T. Side note, Stephenson's nephew was my son's best friend in grade school and jr high. My son recruited him to our troop, but that lasted less than 6 months. Stephenson also worked for my older brother at AT&T many years ago. He was a night shift computer operator and lived in a mobile home. My brother used to give him rides home after work.
  18. SR540Beaver

    Food For Thought...

    I got back into scouting with my son around 2002. I was initiated with talk of the death of BSA. It still appears to be alive and kicking. He camped every month, went to summer camp, floated the Boundary Waters, backpacked Philmont and the Pecos Wilderness, staffed camps, staffed NYLT's, attended two Jambos, held just about every position up the SPL and JASM, was an OA ceremonialist, Chaper and Lodge Vice Chief and earned Eagle. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. He had plenty of adventure. His experience was pretty typical of the boys in our troop. Is scouting changing? Sure, but it always has.
  19. I live in Oklahoma. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a meteorologist or a storm chaser. Seriously, if it's going to rain, all the TV stations preempt the network feed and spend hours covering it. The only way you can't be weather aware is by choosing not to.
  20. SR540Beaver

    Radical Brownies

    I'm not a Girl Scouter and I know that they are run differently than BSA, but this doesn't seem like an appropriate use of their program to me. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/02/10/radical-brownies-girl-scouts-social-justice-oakland-black-lives-matter-protests/ "OAKLAND (KPIX 5) – After the recent Black Lives Matter protests, there is a new brownie troop in Oakland. Instead of selling cookies, they are spreading a message. On a Saturday afternoon in Oakland, a handful of 8 to 10 year old girls are gathered, in brown uniforms, giggling and eating cupcakes. They look like Girl Scouts, but it’s not just fun and games. And it’s not just fun and games. “White policeman are killing black young folks such as women, men and children,†one of the girls said. Another girl said, “Mike Brown. He was shot because he didn’t do nothing. Only the police officer shot him because of his skin color.†These girls are called the “Radical Brownies.†And instead of learning sewing, they’re learning social justice. Even their uniforms have a message. “The beret, it’s a Black Panther/Brown Beret twist,†one of the Radical Brownies said. “I think it’s very appropriate. A lot of the work the Black Panthers did was community oriented,†Radical Brownies co-founder Marilyn Hollinquest told KPIX 5........"
  21. SR540Beaver

    Should have used the buddy system

    Did the description happen to say blonde?
  22. I must admit that I never sat on an Eagle board under the old project workbook. I was too busy doing unit scouting, OA, district and council staffing and such to add that to my list. After my son aged out and I slowed down a little, I took up EBOR's. That being said, my son and other boy's in our unit used the old workbook, so I'm very familiar with the format. As a board member, I'd much prefer the old format. We get far too many kids whose unit leadership signs off on an idea. Literally, an idea and little else. Under the new format, they don't have to put much more effort into it than that. I know I exaggerate, but it's close to being true. My son rebuilt a pavilion at a Campfire USA campground that had been destroyed by a flood. His workbook had all the materials, measurements, plans, drawings, etc you could imagine in support of the project. An owner/engineer of a major commercial construction company (builds skyscrapers) sat on his board. He told my son after the board that when he looked at it before my son even sat with them, it was so well done that he could picture the whole project in his mind and understand exactly what he was doing. now all we get is, "I'm going to rebuild a destroyed pavilion". What materials are you going to use? Plywood and shingles maybe. Maybe metal. How much do you need? I don't know, I was going to talk to the ranger and see what he thought. I'm running more and more into these type of initial EBOR's and they fall within the spirit and letter of the new rules. We spend most of our time making suggestions to help him succeed than we do hearing him explain a real plan. It's just an idea. We approve them, but we feel like we are approving vapor in many instances. I think the old workbook needed some adjustments, but I think they went too far in the other direction with the new workbook.
  23. SR540Beaver

    Radical Brownies

    The group has a facebook page with info and pictures. I'd say they are the real deal.