SR540Beaver

TheScout, I beg to differ in regard to Hannity specifically. I get to listen to about 30 minutes of his radio program's final hour every day on the way home. He promises at the top of the hour to give you the most comprehensive, hard hitting NEWS and analysis than anyone else. Yes, he says analysis, but he also says he is giving you the news. To many of his fans, he IS the source that informs their opinion. I had been busy this week and had not had the opportunity to see Hannity's new solo TV show until last night. Guess how it started? A big flashing BREAKING NEWS ALERT with Sean making snide remarks (commentary, not news reporting) about Caroline Kennedy stepping away from seeking Hillary's Congressional seat. It was not breaking news as it had been in the news cycle much earlier in the day. Half way thru the show he has his "All American Panel" there to discuss Kennedy again. Onece again, flashing breaking news alert. Another segment was Sean making fun of the new Obama press secretary along with a few other items. He finished that segment with, "and that's the news". Hannity falls back on the analysis claim when confronted, but he is less tha bashful about claiming to present the news. Trust me, as a member of his forums, I can assure you that he has a faithful following that believe he is giving them objective news reporting.

Barry, My son staffed NYLT last year and is again this year. While the staff had OA members in it then and now, it wasn't because they were OA nor was the Lodge consulted for staff suggestions. Last year's staff was made up of GT camp staff. They are doing things a little differently this year. Last year's course was put together at the spur of the moment. I'll PM you off line about my concerns as they are not for public consumption.

Buffalo, Are you sure your Green Bar weekend was not NYLT? I'm not sure if the rules have changed recently, but BSA was allowing for local traditional names to be maintained as part of NYLT. I believe that what they asked was that instead of calling it say "Golden Acorn", it needed to be called "Golden Acorn National Youth Leadership Training". It is however possible that your council/OA does indeed run a non-standard home grown leadership program. I've had the personal thought for some time that our council needs to tap the lodge as a resource for helping run the youth leadership training.

Hey guys, I'm just reporting what the "hate Obama" crowd are saying. It is them who claim that Obama's Certificate of Live Birth is not hos Birth Certificate. Not me. He put a copy of his COLB on his website and it was rejected by those wanting him to prove his US citizenship in a court of law with a BC. Like I said, Hannity's forum has two threads that are each aroud 8000 posts on the topic. They even had examples linked of what a Hawaii "BC" looked like and how it differed from Obama's COLB. Funny thing is, both say "Certificate of Live Birth". But what the naysayers want to see is a copy of the document like the second link and not like the first. COLB - http://forums.hannity.com/showpost.php?p=45290111&postcount=5 BC - http://www.marblewallet.com/images/birthcertificate.jpg

Actually Beavah, that isn't quite true. What Obama released on his web site was a copy of a Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii which is not the same as a birth certificate. He has never produced a copy of his actual Birth Certificate from Hawaii. That is where the contention lies. His detractors say it does not exist because they believe wholeheartedly that he was actually born in Kenya. They claim that if he would just produce the actual document for examination, they would go away. Until then, they stand by their claim that he is not an American citizen and is therefore disqualifed to run for President. There end game was to get it reviewed by the Supreme Court before the inauguration. Just about every court they took it to denied them as they did not have standing to bring the issue before the court. Also, the state of Hawaii has said that he was indeed born there and that they can not release a person's birth certificate willy nilly to anyone who asks for it. The funny thing is that I understand John McCain also refused to release his birth certificate for review. I personally think he did it in support of his opponent because he realized how moronic the vitriol on both sides has become over elections.

Burning Spear, Good point and welcome to the forum!!!

BP, lighten up a little. Gern's comment was a joke. There is however a concerted loony right wingnut movement to find any reason possible to deny Obama the Presidency. One of the most popular threads on Sean Hannity's forum has over 7000 posts concerning the birth certificate conspiracy theory. The first such thread was closed after thousands of posts and the current one allowed because so many of the posters believed it to be a legitimate cause. This was all before the man even began his term of office.

kbandit, We run into this on almost every campout. While we do have a few scouts involved in sports, we have more that are involved in band. One of two things happens. They either skip the campout or they come late Friday night or very early Saturday morning. It really isn't a big deal. Patrols are a team and if a team member is missing, they take up the slack. If a PL isn't there, the APL fills in. Same for the SPL and ASPL. As I said in the other thread, we counsel our boys that are heavily involved in band and/or sports to not run for a leadership position until their season is over and they can devote the time needed for their POR. Each election cycle, our boys who want a POR fill out an application (just like for employment) and agree to a set of expectations on their part. There is also a place for a parent to sign saying they will support their son's committment to the troop. If they are elected to a POR and then fail to show up, they will not get credit and will be replaced. So far, this has not been a problem because they give to their band or team during that season and then give to the troop when they have the time and availibility. Now, we are a troop of about 55 boys and have 40 to 45 boys on any given campout, so we can absorb some "losses" that a troop of 8 or 10 can not as easily.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

kraut, In our troop, we counsel the boys that there will be certain expectations when they are in a POR. If you are SPL.....you are SPL. You need to be there unless providentially hindered. We counsel them not to seek office during their season as they have obligations that will prevent them from meeting their POR obligations. If they run and get elected and then don't show up, they don't get credit for the POR. Therefore, we tell them to run when they can devote their time just like they have to do with sports and band.

Honestly Merlyn, I've never heard 1 man - 1 woman being advocated. Our meetings and outings center on Scouting activities.

shortridge, I'll bite. I wear a wedding ring. However, I do not make it a point to inform everyone that I am heterosexual and that I have an axe to grind over it. Many gays I know don't either. But many I've known have. Their whole being and purpose in life was wrapped up in it. They are no more acceptable as a scout leader than a swaggering adulterer who tells everyone about his conquests. I think the difference is that there are no organized efforts by swaggering adulterers to force their lifestyle on society and become scout leaders. But if they avowed themselves as such, I don't think a unit would accept them.

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skeptic, I apologize for helping derail your thread. This is an area that I typically try to avoid. I'm no lawyer and I don't play one on TV and I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm not sure it makes any difference, but there are few "avowed" drug addicts, alcoholics, free lovers and adulterers asking for to be accepted as an alternate lifestyle. Most folks of those persuasions tend to hide their actions......as do some gays. It is difficult to deny a person something based on their actions if you are unaware of them. For those who proclaim it loud and proud and make it what they are all about, it is a different story. While national may actually target avowed homosexuals, I'm sure 99.9% of units would deny some guy who proudly brags about all the women he sleeps with behind his wife's back or a guy who talks about how great crack is. BSA believes that sexuality is something best taught in the home and church. An avowed homosexual is someone who publically promotes their sexuality as a part of who they are. There are many gay organizations with an agenda. I don't think you can say the same thing about alcoholics or adulterers. Just my opinion and worth the electrons it is veiwed upon. My disclaimer. I ave gay family members and my best friend from college is gay. I love them dearly. I also support the BSA's ban on avowed homosexuals.

Brent, Actually, Chief Justice Roberts messed up. http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2009/01/20/roberts-obama-jumble-presidential-oath-of-office/ WASHINGTON - It was merely a formality and its probably a few phrases that both Barack Obama and Chief Justice of the United States John Roberts have practiced several times, but the leader of the Supreme Court may have been just a tad nervous when he got one word of the presidential oath of office a little out of order. Obama smiled slightly when he realized that Roberts, a fellow Harvard Law School graduate, misplaced the word faithfully during the oath. but the new president joined in the fun and repeated it the way Roberts initially administered it. (Lest we forget, in the Senate Obama voted against confirming Roberts to the high court. Last week Obama met with him and the other Supreme Court justices during a courtesy call.) Here is how the oath is supposed to be administered: I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. And heres how it went: ROBERTS: I, Barack Hussein Obama OBAMA: I, Barack ROBERTS: do solemnly swear OBAMA: I, Barack Hussein Obama, do solemnly swear ROBERTS: that I will execute the office of president to the United States faithfully OBAMA: that I will execute ROBERTS: faithfully the office of president of the United States OBAMA: the office of president of the United States faithfully ROBERTS: and will to the best of my ability OBAMA: and will to the best of my ability ROBERTS: preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. OBAMA: preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. ROBERTS: So help you God? OBAMA: So help me God.

Part of the issue is that much of talk radio is political, therefore it is accepted as "news" by some folks. Another part of the issue has been the rise of 24 hour cable news networks. As big as the world is and as much as there is that goes on, you simply can't report actual NEWS 24 hours a day and stay in business. The majority of cable news programming just like talk radio is opinion instead of news. People accept opinion as "news" because it is on a news network.

Oh, you know the course. The one with all the fat, unskilled, millionaire professional, parlor scouters practicing their touchy feely, I'm OK, you're OK, new age, management theory.

Words that reflect Scouting values from our new President during his inauguration speech: "For as much as government can do and must do, it is ultimately the faith and determination of the American people upon which this nation relies. It is the kindness to take in a stranger when the levees break, the selflessness of workers who would rather cut their hours than see a friend lose their job which sees us through our darkest hours. It is the firefighter's courage to storm a stairway filled with smoke, but also a parent's willingness to nurture a child, that finally decides our fate. Our challenges may be new. The instruments with which we meet them may be new. But those values upon which our success depends - hard work and honesty, courage and fair play, tolerance and curiosity, loyalty and patriotism - these things are old. These things are true. They have been the quiet force of progress throughout our history. What is demanded then is a return to these truths. What is required of us now is a new era of responsibility - a recognition, on the part of every American, that we have duties to ourselves, our nation, and the world, duties that we do not grudgingly accept but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowledge that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of our character, than giving our all to a difficult task. This is the price and the promise of citizenship. This is the source of our confidence - the knowledge that God calls on us to shape an uncertain destiny."(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Perhaps the dreaded Wood Badger's should be added to the list of undesireables.

GWD, Evidently you have never listened to Hannity's radio show. He dubbed it the "Stop the Radical Obama Express" once Obama won the nomination. Before that, it was the "Stop Hillary Express". Radio stays alive thru ratings and you have to give your audience what they want to stay on the air and make a living. He now gets to do a solo TV version of what he does on the radio. The unfortunate part is that many of his fans actually think he IS a journalist instead of an entertainer and take his comments as unbiased news reporting rather than partisan spin. Truthfully, Colmes was never a counter balance in any way, shape or form. All he actually did was cut into Hannity's time to dominate the program.

Shortridge, Rather than depend on the word of others or the misconceptions of critics who have never participated, here is a fact sheet from BSA's website that explains what Wood Badge actually is. Wood Badge is not now and never has been training for outdoor skills. Those selected to staff Wood Badge are typically people who have been active at the unit level for some time and should have a knowledge of the skills used in their program. But that is not the primary reason they are chosen as staff. I won't bore you with all the criteria a course director uses, but one of the main reasons is their ability to be an engaging trainer. Boy Scout outdoor skills (while valuable) is not the thrust of Wood Badge. Wood Badge is leadership skills training that cuts across all BSA programs. But enough from me. Here is what the BSA says. http://www.scouting.org/Media/FactSheets/02-539.aspx History of Wood Badge In 1911, four years after Scouting began in Great Britain, Lord Baden-Powell began training Scouters through a series of lectures. This led to the first Wood Badge training course for Scoutmasters, held eight years later at Gilwell Park near London. In 1936, an experimental Wood Badge course was conducted in the United States at the Schiff Scout Reservation. Then, in 1948, the first American Wood Badge course was introduced in the United States as advanced training for trainers of Boy Scout leaders. Later, the program was extended to include troop committee members, commissioners, and Explorer leaders. Experiments began in the late 1960s with a leadership development Wood Badge course emphasizing 11 leadership skills or "competencies." This program was launched in 1972 in support of a major revision of the Boy Scout phase of the program. In 1978, an evaluation of the Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge course revealed a need for greater emphasis on the practical aspects of good troop operation. The result was the development of a course that would provide a blend of Scoutcraft skills and practical troop operation, mixed with a variety of leadership exercises.. In 2001, the new Wood Badge for the 21st Century was introduced. It was developed for all Scouters: Cub Scout leaders, Boy Scout leaders, Venturing leaders, and council and district leaders. The focus is on leadership skills, not outdoor skills. The first part of the new Wood Badge course reflects unit meetings, while the second part of the course uses a troop camping activity as its delivery model. The new Wood Badge course is administered nationally by the Boy Scout Division. Purpose As a result of attending Wood Badge, participants will be able to - View Scouting globally, as a family of interrelated, values-based programs that provide age-appropriate activities for youth. - Recognize the contemporary leadership concepts utilized in corporate America and leading government organizations that are relevant to our values-based movement. - Apply the skills they learn from their participation as a member of a successful working team. - Revitalize their commitment by sharing in an overall inspirational experience that helps provide Scouting with the leadership it needs to accomplish its mission on an ongoing basis. Curriculum Wood Badge courses may be conducted as a weeklong experience, or over two weekends with patrol meetings between each session. Experience has shown that either format produces satisfactory results. A staff guide is provided with a conversion guide for a weekend or weeklong course. An administrative guidebook outlines the procedures for administering the program. Qualifications Each Scouter invited to participate in Wood Badge training must have completed the basic training courses for their Scout position and completed the outdoor skills training programs appropriate for their Scouting position. Conducting the Training Wood Badge courses are authorized by regional service centers. When a local council feels it can guarantee enough participants from its own ranks, it may apply to the region to conduct a local council Wood Badge course. In a local council course, all participants, staff, and support come from the local council. Two or more local councils may cooperate in conducting a cluster-council Wood Badge course. With regional approval, one of the participating councils acts as the host council. The host council normally coordinates the advance preparation, invitation procedure, and staff selection, and provides a site and basic equipment. The course director will participate in the selection of staff from the participating councils. A minimum of 30 course members must be registered, with full fees paid, 30 days before the opening day of the course. This will ensure good patrol operation, full participation, and financial success. For efficiency of operation, there should not be more than eight patrols. Goals The primary purpose of the Wood Badge experience is to strengthen Scouting in our units, districts, and local councils. The Wood Badge ticket represents the participant's commitment to complete a set of personal goals relating to that individual's Scouting position. These goals will significantly strengthen the program in which the participant is involved. In addition, the ticket gives participants an opportunity to practice and demonstrate a working knowledge of the leadership skills presented during the course. Participants should complete their Wood Badge ticket no later than 18 months after the course. Recognition Upon successful completion of the ticket, the participant is entitled to receive the Wood Badge recognition. This consists of a parchment certificate, the Wood Badge beads (two wooden beads on a leather thong), a tan neckerchief with a swatch of MacLaren tartan, and a leather woggle or neckerchief slide. The Wood Badge recognition not only identifies a Scouter who has completed advanced training, but also reminds the wearer of an ongoing commitment to continued service to Scouting. Summary Since 1948, the Wood Badge course has served as a source of training and inspiration to thousands of leaders. These Scouters have affected the lives of millions of America's youth in a quality Boy Scout program of citizenship training, character development, and fitness. (This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Barry and I are in the same council and we've both staffed Wood Badge courses. Unfortunately, we've never got to staff one together. Barry is correct about Cubs. We specifically target Cub leaders for Wood Badge. We do so because they are at the beginning of the journey. Cub Packs fail or die because the are constantly reinventing the wheel. They don't have the benefit of the tradition and experience passed down in a Troop. We figure that if we can give Cub leaders the skill sets WB provides, it strengthens the Packs and carries oover into the Troops when they crossover.

Narraticong, Do you expect people teaching Youth Protection to be well versed in scout skills? That isn't to say that people who teach either course don't need or have scout skills. It just isn't all that pertinent to the subject matter being taught. Knowing how to dig a cat hole or tie a bowline doesn't really apply to teaching about how people in groups (patrols) communicate. People teaching any course need to know the curriculum for that course. Having said that, the pool of people selected to teach these courses are Scouters.......most of who have scout skills from their years in the outdoors as unit leaders.

Good question OGE. The folks who sit on our council's WB steering committee all earned their beads under the previous curriculum. They loved it. Said it was one of the best experiences of their life. As there was no one who had yet taken WB21C, they were the pioneering WB course directors for the new curriculum before becoming committee members. Guess what? They love it too. Say it is one of the best experiences of their life. I don't know, perhaps someone from national slipped something in their bug juice and brainwashed them. But I know a good number of them pretty well and have had numerous conversations with them and have been assured that the old course taught leadership skills in a Scouting format just like the new course. Just a different curriculum. You know, kind of like how science and history text books change periodically. Perhaps it would be helpful for the naysayers to actually experience the new curriculum with an open mind and understanding of the purpose of the course before holding forth with an uninformed opinion. It certianly couldn't hurt since the old curriculum won't return.

Boy, I hate to appear ignorant as an active OA member, but I've never heard of a North American Culture and Ceremonies Seminar. If this is put on by a Native American Tribe/Nation, it isn't really an OA event, but something that OA Lodges utilize for educational purposes. If that is the case, there would be no reason why you couldn't attend as it isn't OA ceremony specific. I live in Oklahoma where we have a large number of Native Americans and I've never been aware of an NACCS. Our Lodge certainly hasn't promoted anything along those lines. I wish they did as my son is a Chapter officer and part of the Chapter ceremonial team. One more question. We use the term "regalia" all the time. Where is it written that we are not supposed to?

I think those organizations are going to be sorely disappointed. Obama is shaping up to be quite a centrist.