SR540Beaver

BadenP, I do have a degree in religion from Oklahoma Baptist University and did a year towards a masters in religious education at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and spent some time in the ministry. I was making a simple point and not doing an exegetical analysis. Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death (eternal spiritual death/seperation from God), but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord. Tell me, which sins DO NOT seperate us from God and which ones DO? I'm sure mass murder would. Would stealing a candy bar not? We are saved by grace, not by a ledger card showing degrees of sin. Isaiah 59:1 Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear. 2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.

Logical, reasoned thinking along with honesty and integrity in punditry? What is this world coming to? The next thing you know, cats and dogs will be sleeping together. I hope Buckley's ailment starts catching on both sides of the aisle.

Yep, standard stuff that has been around for years and nothing new. The real crime is that no alcohol can be sold in Oklahoma on election day. We can't have drunk people voting and pullingthe wrong levers you know!!!

Pack, Not physical death.....but I think you knew that.

The wages of sin are death. The Word doesn't specify which sin. It includes all sin. Sin is sin in God's eyes and it seperates us from him. The degree of sin is really a moot point.

Gold Winger - "How on earth did you manage that?" I think the further away you get from Utah, the more lax it becomes. I served on a Wood Badge staff that had two LDS staffers on it who did the regular Friday, Saturday and Sunday schedule. We also had a number of LDS participants. Being there on Sunday didn't seem to present a problem. Go further west and closer to Utah and that won't fly.

jblake, Who mentioned retired scouts just taking up space? You, not me. Few troops have any need for guys who want to do nothing. They are a detriment to the whole process. As I said in my post to Kudu, what do you do with a boy who has served in leadership and attained Eagle and WANTS to remain active in scouting, but the added responsibilities of being a young man preclude him from being as active as he once was? Stick him in a corner and say thanks but no thanks? Tell him give me all or give me nothing? We are only interested in scouts below 16? If he has something to contribute and has the desire, put him to work. Give him a new challenge.

Sorry guys, but I lay a lot of the blame directly at the feet of talk radio. Ratings is the name of the game. No ratings, no advertisers. No advertisers, no bucks. Talk radio has devolved into appealing to the lowest denominator in political discourse. As a result, the fans of the shows imitate and repeat what they hear. It is all gotcha politics. Following talk radio is the ever expanding internet media. The radio and internet follwed by TV and print media are all competing for the same bucks and will stoop to new lows in order to earn it. Sadly, there are a lot of folks out their who fail to recognize that the pundits they idolize as true believers and deep thinkers are just out to make a buck and little else.

Kudu, You have a former SPL and Eagle who is 16.5 or 17. He has a driver's license. His parents didn't buy him a car, pay for his gas or his insurance because they believe he will become a more responsible driver and person if he foots the bill. That requires that he work in addition to school, scouts, church and any other activities he does. If he is lucky, his boss might let him have a weekend off so he can go on an outing. He might be able to come to about half the meetings if his job allows him a flexible schedule. He still has a lot to offer the troop, but his time is limited. Do you write him off or do you provide an opportunity to continue to serve and allow him to give back? He can do that as a JASM. An SPL who only shows up half the time and can't attend outings will only hurt the program. JASM made up? Maybe. Essential? Maybe not. Preferable? You bet.

Brent, You are undet the mistaken impression that I am defending Ayers. I am not. Ayers and North are both criminals. I would not associate with either. The fact that McCain and Obama are acquainted with them makes absolutely no difference in whether or not I would vote for either of them. Guilt by association is a childish gotcha tactic employeed by pundits who can not argue the actual issues.

Well said Beavah. I'm always glad to see a fellow old school conservative make the effort to get out of the rocker and climb on the soap box. My hope is that the old school can return after the current admin rides into the sunset.

I would love nothing better than to tell you why I am for a candidate, but I don't have a dog in this hunt. Once again I will be forced to big the lesser of two evils. I will say this, I think both men are good and honorable men who do not deserve the hate they both endure from the opposing talking heads in print and media.

jblake, You are possibly missing a great opportunity at retaining the experience and influence of older scouts. No youth should be made a JASM just to make then a JASM. In our troop, the SM occasionally offers JASM to a youth who has been an outstanding scout. We follow the 16 year old minimum age requirement set by BSA. To my knowledge, the boys who have served as a JASM have been guys who served multiple times in APL, PL, ASPL and SPL positions and possibly TG and/or Instructor. They have usually attained Eagle and been active in our high adventure trips as well. They still enjoy scouting, but there is also a sense of having been there and done that and losing interest in doing the things that interest the NSP. They are young adults who are beginning to look at colleges, have girlfriends, drive a car and work a job to pay for all of those things. While still interested in scouting, they can't always be as active as the young happy go lucky younger boys. JASM is a way to provide a higher level of service and keep a boy active even longer.

Gold Winger, "Who?" Sean Hannity, the number two talk radio host in the nation right behind Rush. All he asks is that you listen 3 hours a day, 5 days a week so he can Hannitize your vote. Well that and 1 hour a night on Fox News for Hannity and Colmes and 1 hour on Sunday for Hannity's America on Fox News and to attend his Freedom Concerts and read his multiple books. The Ayres thing you are hearing coming out of Palin and now McCain is from him pushing the issue daily for the past year. He has actually attained the ability to shape the talking points of the Republican candidates. Scary!

vol, The Osama bin Laden/Oliver North thing is an urban legend. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.asp http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blnorth.htm North was found guilty of falsifying and destroying documents, obstructing Congress and illegally receiving the gift of a security fence around his home in Virginia. He received a three-year suspended prison sentence, two years on probation, 1,200 hours' community service with inner city drugs projects and a $150,000 fine. The retired lieutenant-colonel had his annual service pension - of $23,100 suspended after 20 years in the US Marines and he has been barred from holding any federal office. He was later acquitted based on a technicality. http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/5/newsid_2772000/2772471.stm

Bull pucky? I thought it was horse hockey. Must be a regional thing.

Brent, Ollie sold weapons to a known terrorist state to illegally fund guerilla fighters in another country. Iran is part of the axis of evil if you recall. If you want to associate with that kind of person, that is your business.

Brent, "An Obama win, along with a Democratic House and Senate, is a very scary thought." Any scarier than what happened 6 of the last 8 years with Bush and a Republican House and Senate? God help us!!!

GW, You should have been in the adult area on the campout with me this past weekend. Our open-minded, tolerant and inclusive conservatives were in rare form. Myself, I'm old school conservative......but I did take exception to their characterizations of Obama and his supporters. It's campaign season, I just sipped my coffee and enjoyed the view of the lake.

In that case, you will need to get more specific. Have you attempted to discuss the issue with him?

Brent, I've served on two Wood Badge staffs. I was an ASM for the 2005 Jambo. Those positions were run by the SE of our council for approval. Heck, he even sat next to me at the staff table at the day 6 WB luncheon and we chit-chatted before he spoke. Other than knowing what he has done since becoming our SE and a little of what I've heard of his background previous to that, I have no idea what his actions were 40 years ago. But based on the hate machines logic, me and the SE have been best buddies for years and cohorts in crime for the majority of it. Crossing paths and being involved in the same organizations does not mean we have had deep strategic meetings in darkened rooms full of cigar smoke. Does a Democratic politician from Chicago have occasion to be acquainted with and run in the same circles as another person involved in Chicago Democrat politics? Well....YEAH!!! Do you hold McCain to the same standard for associating and accepting the endorsement of the indicted, convicted and unrepentant Oliver North who like Ayers managed to get off on a technicality? What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

I guess that DC CD is unaware that Sean Hannity has dubbed his radio show the "Stop the Radical Obama Express". Now there is some fair and balanced coverage.

Hopefully our good mods can merge these three threads into one. The one that was left open was edited by the poster to remove the original post. Cookie, don't get me wrong as I am not arguing in favor of extra age requirements for Eagle. I will however play devil's advocate based on the many conversations I have heard Scouters have concerning this issue. Obviously, earning Eagle is NOT the goal of the BSA. It is a small number of boys who actually do earn it. Usually the concern stems from a boy or more usually from parents who push their son to treat rank requirements as a punch list with a major prize at the end. The quicker and younger you can do it, the more impressive. It is more than one boy who has left the program after earning Eagle. Those who earn it at a young age at the urging of their parents usually leave the program to tackle the next impressive award to go on their resume for getting in a premium university. To many Scouters, Eagle is believed to be something special. They want the scout who earns it to be able to fully appreciate what it means. To them, that appreciation is gained thru wisdom, experience, maturity and service that is gained over time.......hence age. A boy of 16 or 17 with 5 or 6 years in the program is going to understand the signifigance of his accomplishment much more than a 13 year old with 2 years in the program. Are all 16 or 17 year olds mature? Heck no. I know some 50 year olds who are immature and don't "get it". But they are the exception rather than the rule. A 13 year old Eagle who "gets it" is also the exception rahter than the rule. Do I have anything against a 14.5 year old scout earning Eagle. No. Do I understand why some people do? Yes. Do I think a boy should wait until right before his 18th birthday to Eagle? No. My son is 15.5 and needs Family Life and E Prep as well as his Eagle Project to earn Eagle. His goal has always been to earn it before he turns 16. Why? Because he took to heart all of those pleas from the deathbed Eagles who warned at their Eagle COH not to wait until they were 17.5 to get serious. He saw guys hit 16, get a car and a job disappear from scouting only to return a year and a half later and bust their butts trying to finish. He feels like he has too much invested to throw it away. He "gets it". Personally, I think "older" Eagles understand and appreciate their Eagle more. While I might counsel a boy to slow down and enjoy the journey, I wouldn't stand in his way if he is getting there at a younger age.

Buffalo, My experience is that the baggie eggs are usually done on a Sunday morning when there is a need to break camp, get packed and get on the road. That is preferable to pop tarts or a bowl of cereal. For Saturdays, we encourage a dutch oven breakfast.

Hopefully our good mods can merge these three threads into one. The one that was left open was edited by the poster to remove the original post. Cookie, don't get me wrong as I am not arguing in favor of extra age requirements for Eagle. I will however play devil's advocate based on the many conversations I have heard Scouters have concerning this issue. Obviously, earning Eagle is NOT the goal of the BSA. It is a small number of boys who actually do earn it. Usually the concern stems from a boy or more usually from parents who push their son to treat rank requirements as a punch list with a major prize at the end. The quicker and younger you can do it, the more impressive. It is more than one boy who has left the program after earning Eagle. Those who earn it at a young age at the urging of their parents usually leave the program to tackle the next impressive award to go on their resume for getting in a premium university. To many Scouters, Eagle is believed to be something special. They want the scout who earns it to be able to fully appreciate what it means. To them, that appreciation is gained thru wisdom, experience, maturity and service that is gained over time.......hence age. A boy of 16 or 17 with 5 or 6 years in the program is going to understand the signifigance of his accomplishment much more than a 13 year old with 2 years in the program. Are all 16 or 17 year olds mature? Heck no. I know some 50 year olds who are immature and don't "get it". But they are the exception rather than the rule. A 13 year old Eagle who "gets it" is also the exception rahter than the rule. Do I have anything against a 14.5 year old scout earning Eagle. No. Do I understand why some people do? Yes. Do I think a boy should wait until right before his 18th birthday to Eagle? No. My son is 15.5 and needs Family Life and E Prep as well as his Eagle Project to earn Eagle. His goal has always been to earn it before he turns 16. Why? Because he took to heart all of those pleas from the deathbed Eagles who warned at their Eagle COH not to wait until they were 17.5 to get serious. He saw guys hit 16, get a car and a job disappear from scouting only to return a year and a half later and bust their butts trying to finish. He feels like he has too much invested to throw it away. He "gets it". Personally, I think "older" Eagles understand and appreciate their Eagle more. While I might counsel a boy to slow down and enjoy the journey, I wouldn't stand in his way if he is getting there at a younger age.